Tyre temperatures

Tim Ling · Sep 24, 2008

I get the feeling there may not be a precise answer to this, but here goes.

The setup guide recommends tyre temps of 90-110 deg. Should I put air in to increase the temp, or take it out? And how many....whatsits...equal 1psi?

I am trying to understand how setups work, lets just say I'm a little, um, special, and need extra help

Andrew Evans · Sep 25, 2008

Lee Downham said:
Smoother steadier driving defo helps preserve them too ... now I just need to learn how to do both smooth and steady and fast at the same time

heheh, that's probably the core of my problem more than anything else... currently filed under mutually exclusive abilities.... :becky:

Lee Downham · Sep 25, 2008

:lol: @ Andrew ^^^

Richard Bunschoten said:
I actualy thought that tire temperature would rise with a higher tire pressure instead of lower tire pressure .
...
but now i am confused about this pressure, temperature relation,
Will the tire get warmer with higher or lower pressure

This is why I said its a curve with pressures ... there has to be an optimal point at which the tyre functions ...
Too much or too little pressure, means too little grip and tyres run too cool or maybe even the opposite and they overheat ...
EDIT: ... and probably also wear out faster due to all the sliding and heat issues?

Tried a few settings in the minis last night and this was the case there, and if I strayed just 1 or 2 kpa away from the "optimal" pressure, I lost heat very quickly.

Karl Westman · Sep 25, 2008

Your tires will last longer if you drive carefully in the first few laps, that way you don't "stress" them (which amongst other things can lead to graining). A tire that gets up to heat in a steady and progressive way is a happy tire...

Aggressive braking, to much toe in/out, to much camber and to much of a push through the corners (understeer) will cause your tires to weare off more quickly.

Richard, I was about to answer you question - but you found the answer your self. Good piece of information as well!
:thumb:
Kind regards,
Karl

Andrew Evans · Sep 25, 2008

thanks for that, as well, karl - i definitely don't take it easy in the opening laps! :becky:

Richard Bunschoten · Sep 25, 2008

Lee Downham said:
:lol: @ Andrew ^^^

This is why I said its a curve with pressures ... there has to be an optimal point at which the tyre functions ...
Too much or too little pressure, means too little grip and tyres run too cool or maybe even the opposite and they overheat ...
EDIT: ... and probably also wear out faster due to all the sliding and heat issues?

Tried a few settings in the minis last night and this was the case there, and if I strayed just 1 or 2 kpa away from the "optimal" pressure, I lost heat very quickly.

that explains alot .
I did indeed test some settings too , and its not as easy as lower pressure warmer tire and visa versa. You need to hit the right spot.

@ Stuart

You can find lots of seconds in some tire tweaking ... camber and pressure does alot for handling and grip.

Taranta · Sep 27, 2008

Tire Pressure
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Tire pressure has great effect on grip. In my experience, good tire pressure/temperature means a lot better lap time. I am talking about 1-2 seconds in your lap times.
Tire pressure has influence on car control and also tire wear. A tire has an amount of pressure at which it has the most grip. Decreasing or increasing pressure from this point means less grip.
It is best when the center tire temperature is the average of the inner + outer temperature under ideal operating temperature (for GT cars 85-95 Celsius / I think for WTCC it will be pretty much the same). To check the temperature, press escape after a few laps and enter the car setup. The temperature can be read out, three temps for each tire.
It takes usual 2-3 laps before you reach the optimal temperature. When setting the tire pressure, it is good when you turn symmetrical setup off. You can now adjust the tire pressure for each tire. Most tracks demand different tire pressure for each tire! As said before, tire pressure also has influence on car control. The higher the pressure, the stiffer the car will be. A stiffer car means better/faster response from your drivers input. Play with tire pressure and watch your lap times improve. Most people forget this, so take advantage of it.
:focus:

[/FONT][/FONT]

Lee Downham · Sep 27, 2008

^^^^ that is a quote from Ramon's setup guide isn't it?

Anyhow ... I had another "moment" of realisation tonight ... might seem obvious to most but I am a bit slow :wink:

If your temps are even across each tyre but they are not yet running at an optimal temp (eg 74 71 68), then this is where all the spring rates and anti roll bar stuff starts to take effect ... eg harder springs/dampers to push the tyre into the tarmac harder and get it running hotter.

And as stated before here, but again I just understood this properly tonight (after testing it ... if you have quite uneven temps across an "axis" (eg across front tyres) then this is where the anti roll bar can be used to spread the load more evenly, and so heat the both tyres more evenly.

Sorry if this is old news, but I "little doors" are slowly beginning to open for me :wink:

Tim Ling · Sep 27, 2008

ok, I think I see a bit of where you're coming from Lee, but is there any chance you could elaborate a little please?

Richard Bunschoten · Sep 27, 2008

Lee Downham said:
^^^^ that is a quote from Ramon's setup guide isn't it?

Anyhow ... I had another "moment" of realisation tonight ... might seem obvious to most but I am a bit slow :wink:

If your temps are even across each tyre but they are not yet running at an optimal temp (eg 74 71 68), then this is where all the spring rates and anti roll bar stuff starts to take effect ... eg harder springs/dampers to push the tyre into the tarmac harder and get it running hotter.

And as stated before here, but again I just understood this properly tonight (after testing it ... if you have quite uneven temps across an "axis" (eg across front tyres) then this is where the anti roll bar can be used to spread the load more evenly, and so heat the both tyres more evenly.

Sorry if this is old news, but I "little doors" are slowly beginning to open for me :wink:

i think thats where camber setting comes in , not the rollbar setting ..

Jarrod Crossley · Sep 28, 2008

The camber will alter the temps across the tire on that camber arm. where as "Lee" was stating the ARB (Anti Roll Bar) will even the temp out across the axel - e.g. if the Left Tyre is hotter than the Right lower the ARB to even out the temps.

Richard Bunschoten · Sep 28, 2008

Jarrod Crossley said:
The camber will alter the temps across the tire on that camber arm. where as "Lee" was stating the ARB (Anti Roll Bar) will even the temp out across the axel - e.g. if the Left Tyre is hotter than the Right lower the ARB to even out the temps.

ah ok , i miss understood , axel ,t ire thing

Daniel Monteiro · Sep 28, 2008

dude, thanks a lot! my tires start to feel ungrippy after 5-6 laps, i really need to improve the tire specs... does the wing and splitter downforce also have influence in the tire use?

Neil Gault · Sep 28, 2008

nice little article on tyres here http://www.race2play.com/forum/list_posts/4127
as well as a few other setup tips

Lee Downham · Sep 28, 2008

... everything you touch has an effect on tyre wear IMO

EDIT: good link Neil - thanks

Tim Ling · Sep 28, 2008

The race2play site has some very good explanations for all the setup options. Thank you for that link Neil, I now begin to understand a little

Jarrod Crossley · Sep 28, 2008

Race2Plays setup developer tool is pritty good actually. Ive been using it for a while now.

The only thing it lacks is setting up your diff.

Günthar Rowe · Sep 29, 2008

So you know what to aim at with GTR Evolution tire physics...

Mini 2006 (Slick Compound)
Front
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0) // Optimum operating temperature for peak forces, cold starting temp (Celsius)
OptimumPressureBase=133.0

Rear
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0)
OptimumPressureBase=135.0

WTCC 2006/07 FWD (Slick Compound)
Front
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0)
OptimumPressureBase=140.0

Rear
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0)
OptimumPressureBase=140.0

GT Pro, WTCC 87/06/07/Extrete RWD (Slick Compound)
Front
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0)
OptimumPressureBase=132.5

Rear
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0)
OptimumPressureBase=135.0

So based on the above, you'd want to have a spread on your front tires on around the FL 85/90/95 FR 95/90/85 & RL 87/90/93 RR 93/90/87 mark. This giving you the 10 degrees C spread on the fron t and a little less on the rears (if possible).

Günthar Rowe · Sep 29, 2008

Here is my setup process, note that I don't think about the tires by themselves...

Working on a FWD WTCC 07 car like the Honda...

1. Load Simbin Dry (if avail)
2. Adj steering lock to my usual of 21 degrees (I use G25 with 460 degrees rotation) and drop rear wing to 1 (not always a plus on the Chev)
3. Adj fuel to give like 6-8 laps worth
4. Drive till out of gas and return to pits
5. Independently adj tire pressure and camber to even spread + give hopeful 10C spread
6. Pos adjust F & R ARB a click or two depending on how much the diff of each end of axle
7. another blast on the track till need gas and back to pits
8. now it's time to make one or two adj's at a time and see the effect. This is when you start looking at brake bias and diff settings. Also starting to try springs adj's too... always adjusting the tires here...

Usually after I have made 3 setups for different styles of tracks, I start loading up one of those and make mods from there. eg. One for Brands, Anders, Curitiba and Pau. This gives you street, bumpy, grippy and slippy sets to have as bases.

Günthar Rowe · Sep 29, 2008

here is my tires etc on lap 9 at Magny Cours. Almost perfect tire temp spread all round... Might try to see if I can work some more temp in to them to get to that 90C sweet spot.