Trying to enjoy AMS

[Salvatore Sirignano]

Hi chaps

I bought AMS several months ago now having read many favourable comments, and having viewed some splendid YouTube videos, like Niels' talk and drive series, which showcases some very magnificent on-the-limit car control and car behaviour. Impressed by the work Reiza have done on the content they have produced and how they have modernized rf1 so well, I took the plunge and bought most of the DLC too.

I can't get into it though I find that no matter which car I choose, there is absolutely no feel or predictability when the car is at, or just stepping over the limit. In rf2 I can come back to it after a month away and within 2 minutes I can control slide after slide all the way through certain corners in the BT20s or 60s F1s. I'm not the best driver in the world, but I've been simming for over a decade now, I managed to go green at most GPL tracks, I've played loads of NKPro, GTR2, rFactor 2.

I spent most of yesterday trying different cars round different tracks and playing with the setups, all to no avail. My G27 wheel does a pretty decent job of communicating what's happening in the aforementioned sims, but in AMS I have no feel, even though I have set it up according to normal convention ie with negative force feedback strength, for example.

I was in the Formula Vee at Oulton Park short course, cresting the first uphill bit and turning gently left, when the rear end decided it would slowly but unavoidably trace an arc into the nearside barrier.
Same thing in the F Vintage at Kyalami, the left hander up the hill, T3, is perfect for getting sideways around, yet when I attempt to make the rear break loose a touch, I either understeer through the corner, or the same thing happens as in the F Vee, the rear wheels take charge and decide I'm gradually arcing into the barrier on the inside of the corner, and no opposite lock protestations can avoid it. It's as though only two wheels can slide at once.

Has anybody had a similar experience? I know from the videos I've seen that there are great physics there, but are they hiding behind terrible default setups? Is AMS just not very good with a G27?

Any input would be appreciated because I'd dearly love to love AMS!

Thanks

 

[ouvert]

what is your ffb setting and profile setting ? G27 has terrible center deadzone so you probably have to go very high with minimum force in game settings (try something round 60, or just experiment),
Profiler settings: Strength to something over 100%, spring and dumpers to 0%, rotation to 900, use specific and allow game to change setting checked.

From all sims AMS is doing best job for me when it comes to information and feeling in FFB.

that Vee accident .. when you went over crest it made car lighter, and you might be braking before turn witch made rear even lighter .. default setups are fine with AMS, more on safe side, could be made even safer .. you just pick two cars with "no" aero grip, that are steered with throttle not that much with with steering wheel ... you need to correct your steering before that happends (I know you know that ) ...

 

[Paulo Gomes]

I use a g27, and the only thing I do from car to car, is right ctrl+7 or 9 to adjust the realfeel (steering force).
This is how I have my settings (ams manual recomends 10% center spring), and since you like rfactor 2, maybe use ffb effects : pure+1

 

[Salvatore Sirignano]

Thanks for the very helpful tips! I'll be sure to try your suggestions and report back when I fire it up again tomorrow.

 

[Spinelli]

I was in the Formula Vee at Oulton Park short course, cresting the first uphill bit and turning gently left, when the rear end decided it would slowly but unavoidably trace an arc into the nearside barrier.
Same thing in the F Vintage at Kyalami, the left hander up the hill, T3, is perfect for getting sideways around, yet when I attempt to make the rear break loose a touch, I either understeer through the corner, or the same thing happens as in the F Vee, the rear wheels take charge and decide I'm gradually arcing into the barrier on the inside of the corner, and no opposite lock protestations can avoid it. It's as though only two wheels can slide at once.

Very common in some sim-engines (most common in the rFactor physics engine which AMS uses). It's just a part of the oddities of the rFactor/ISI physics engine that, in this respect, has barely been improved upon since ISI's F1 2002 (or possibly since the 1990s with Sports Car GT). You got to just get used to how slides work, how your inputs affect / don't affect those slides, and what you can do and not do - basically, you have to stay in the physics engine's sweet spot once past the limit and just learn what the game likes / doesn't like. It's in start contrast to real life, not to mention some other sims (especially Live For Speed slides which, while generally being too easy, have an overall behaviour - regardless of difficulty level - which is much more natural and in-tune with reality). It's just the way it is and has been for around 20 years in the ISI physics engine.

You can see this behavior (and others) in any sim based on the ISI physics engine from Project Cars, to AMS, to Raceroom. This behavior, and a few other things prone with ISI physics, is how I knew within a few corners of ever playing Project Cars that it was also based on the ISI physics engine. It literally took me less than 1 single ever lap in Project Cars to notice I was driving on the ISI physics engine due to very specific vehicle behavior traits the ISI engine is quite prone to (despite Project Cars using a totally new/different tyre model).


P.S. Of course different wheels and FFB can help dealing with the behavior better/worse but what you and me are describing has nothing to do with wheels or the player but purely to do with physics modelling (vehicle dynamics, vehicle kinematics, etc).

 

[xnorb]

Every sim has it's own feel by simulating forces differently on your wheel.
You either get used to it or stick with the sim you feel most comfortable in.
I for example was not able to understand iRacing's loss of grip ... so i just stopped iRacing

But ya, after moving from G27 to T300 i don't think anybody should ever use an G27

 

[Salvatore Sirignano]

Thanks for the tips guys, I am a bit happier with the formula vee now! My accidents are a little more predictable now and becoming less frequent

 

[Marc Collins]

Thanks for the tips guys, I am a bit happier with the formula vee now! My accidents are a little more predictable now and becoming less frequent

Once you get your wheel settings optimized, you can adjust the weights of individual cars via Realfeel as described above. However, it may be that the default setting is already the best that it can be.

Then all you have to do is get used to rear-engine weight transfer that can cause the car to lose control suddenly and unexpectedly. I once spun a Skip Barber car 180 degrees at fairly low speed without having any real sensation that I was losing grip until it was too late. And that was in real life with real g-forces on my body. Rear-engined cars are gloriously thrilling to drive on a race track because you can accelerate into corners, not just out of them. When you time it correctly, you think the car is on rails. However, a slight misstep and you are visiting the grass. It's really difficult to simulate that with the simple wheels and FFB that we have, but you will get used to feeling the cues. In the meantime, for the F Vee especially, remember that it is a training vehicle designed to punish anyone who forgets the racing mantra "slow-in, fast-out." The Formula Trainer is a milder version (look at the width and centre of gravity by comparison to the tall and tippy Vee!). It would be a better car to start with also because it has a sequential transmission that only requires the clutch to launch. You can spin the Vee just by downshifting (while braking, of course) a bit too aggressively while turning. After you have mastered the Trainer, the Vee seems only slightly diabolical instead of impossible

 

[Paulo Gomes]

I have a g27 in my rig at home, and a t500 in the rig's at work, ( I work in a virtual racing center ) and althought its night and day in terms of "power", I get the same type of detail from the ffb. In the t500 I have a tendency to go one or two clicks for heavier ffb "realfeel values".

 

[apex11]

I feel exactly the same as the OP described with AMS....weird thing is I find GSCE feels better in back to back tests with the Mini.
I picked up AMS for £6 in the steam sale so not really fussed at that price but i'm yet to be blown away by it, iRacing and raceroom coming from console gaming grabbed me by the nads and had me going to sleep thinking about them and itching to get back on the rig..... AMS just leaves me cold.
I will try that real fel thing as didn't know it was an option whilst in game..

 

[ouvert]

I have a g27 in my rig at home, and a t500 in the rig's at work, ( I work in a virtual racing center ) and althought its night and day in terms of "power", I get the same type of detail from the ffb. In the t500 I have a tendency to go one or two clicks for heavier ffb "realfeel values".

Well for details you have t300 for power t500

 

[Paulo Gomes]

One day I was doing a race with the mx5 and I entered a corner in four gear when the perfect gear was third, then in the middle of the corner I did a stupid donwshift that made the revs go through the roof, and to my suprised the car simply did nothing... NOTHING! He keept going like if it was on rails, that was the last time I touch iracing

 

[David Ignjatovic]

T300 or greater, problem solved.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I feel exactly the same as the OP described with AMS....weird thing is I find GSCE feels better in back to back tests with the Mini.
I picked up AMS for £6 in the steam sale so not really fussed at that price but i'm yet to be blown away by it, iRacing and raceroom coming from console gaming grabbed me by the nads and had me going to sleep thinking about them and itching to get back on the rig..... AMS just leaves me cold.
I will try that real fel thing as didn't know it was an option whilst in game..

It could be the new FFB system....maybe fiddle with it a bit.

 

[ouvert]

I feel exactly the same as the OP described with AMS....weird thing is I find GSCE feels better in back to back tests with the Mini.
I picked up AMS for £6 in the steam sale so not really fussed at that price but i'm yet to be blown away by it, iRacing and raceroom coming from console gaming grabbed me by the nads and had me going to sleep thinking about them and itching to get back on the rig..... AMS just leaves me cold.
I will try that real fel thing as didn't know it was an option whilst in game..

Don't know what your wheel is our your settings but in general no spring or dumper in wheel SW and pure settings in game. For some wheel you might wanna use lower ffb refresh rate and set minimal force based on dead zone your wheel has.
For me on cheap DFGT only rF2 has better ffb ..