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Traction Control

Discussion in 'F1 2011 - The Game' started by Rich Maskell, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. How do you drive without it?

    Seriously, it is inpossible to turn without spinning. I don't see the point in turning it off.
     
  2. It's kinda weird to get used to, but you must have pedals if you turn off traction control. If you use a button or the keyboard it's impossible because you'll go flat out whenever you hit the button and will spin, the trick is to not accelerate too much off a turn (especially in gear 1) and as soon as you straighten the wheel get up to speed. Another trick is if you're going through something like a chicane to stay in gear 2/3 so you can accelerate without spinning, try only to go into gear 1 when you have to or it's a lot easier to spin.

    Hope this helps :)
     
  3. Its interesting that weening yourself off Traction Control seem to go hand in hand with learning manual gears as it would seem that short-shifting (Getting into a higher gear before you actually need to) helps reduce wheel-spin out of corners. But you can't do that with auto-gears, so it would appear that the two need to be learnt in tandam, which is a bit of ask when you first start (Especially with a DFGT and the itty-bitty paddle buttons!)

    I'm just starting this myself and I'm finding it a steep learning curve, but I'm sure it'll be worth it in the long run. Although that long run seems to end up as a short run into the pit wall most times ATM, LOL.:rolleyes:

    I've just ordered a set of Gran-Tour-Gismo (http://granturgismo.com/index.html) paddle-shifters for my DFGT so that should help. Am I right in thinking that you have a DFGT wheel too Rich? If so, I'll let you know how I get on with them mate?
     
  4. Graham Laing

    Graham Laing
    ...... mostly harmless Staff

    Mmmm, that's got to be a mighty strong double sided sticky pad ...... I would be tempted to use Araldite. Nearly $40 if sending to Europe.

    Very tempting though! :)

    I sometimes switch medium TC on again, it depends on the track, as I find the DFGT throttle too sensitive in F1 2011, but ok in F1 2010. Also for some reason the AI have awesome grip and acceleration out of some corners, which I just can't match.
     
  5. Apparently they use car body moulding pads (Whatever they are?). I'll let Kevin Explain....
     
  6. I drive with it off but frankly, I go faster with it set to full. About 2 seconds per lap faster at Spa for example. Because it's not just coming off the corners TC helps, I can take fast corners much harder and faster with TC set to full. But I go too fast against Professional AI with it on so I turn it off to be more level field. And I'm too slow against Legend AI even with it on.

    As for driving with it off, you kinda have to adjust setups. I add bit more downforce with wings and adjust suspension to have more understeer. Then for the most part, it's similar to driving with TC on. On slowest turns, gearing is important. If the slowest turn is in 2nd gear, I adjust it so I don't get too much wheelspin coming off. And accelerate gradually instead of mashing the throttle immediately. If you do spin the wheel, upshifting should help.

    And there's no shame in driving with TC on. This is just a game. Play it however you enjoy it.
     
  7. I've recently discovered that (duh) setups are everything when running no assists. I had been trying to run the crazy low downforce online quick race setups that are fast in MP and couldn't figure out why I looked like a donut maker when I turned off the TC. Lots of rear wing is your friend while trying to un-learn TC-enabled habits, then dial it back as you get used to it. It doesn't matter how fast you get down that straight if you find yourself facing the wrong direction every time you accelerate away from the corner after it. Also a gentleman posted in another thread he was having trouble with throttle feel, and it was recommended by several members that if you have wheel/pedal settings available outside the game, use them for your pedal adjustments instead of the in-game adjustments. Good luck with it, learning no assists is very rewarding...stick with it.
     
  8. the hardest thing to master is Traction Control and Manual Gears, it isn't easy, it took me afull week to master Traction control off... the saying goes "treat your car like a lady, nice and gently, ease it out of the corner then slowly put your foot down once your in gear 3 you can start to do it alot quicker.

    this is for F1 2010, but it works exactly the same in any racing game, watch the tutorial if you like.

     
  9. im jsut about to go into this stage for racing - i'm a good 2 seconds down with traction control off and now need to get into gear changinng too - eeeeeekkk - will i eventually be faster than with assist on????

    also i have the DFGT - did you buy them the flappy panels paul and did they help ??
     
  10. Traction Control teaches you to just plough your foot down to the floor out of every corner, it doesnt teach you anything. More people should turn assists off from day 1 and that way it just becomes second nature to be gentle with the throttle under acceleration. The problem with going from TSC to No TSC is that people get way to used to just flooring it and then its a massive learning curve to change your style.

    If you only want to play F1 on the odd occasion for a laugh then fair enough, but if you want the most out of the game (or any racing game for that matter) then start from day 1 with no assists. Its so much more rewarding.

    Using no traction control in F12011 is pretty easy going, easier than in 2010 imo. Just perservere and you will get there. Just dont feel the need to use full throttle everywhere :) Make sure you pedals are set up correctly too, i didnt change any pedals setting on my MS pedals and the sensitivity feels pretty good. That may not be the case for everybody though.
     
  11. Now this is a hard topic to explain to someone but ill try and explain how I learner to drive this game without TC. I play with TC off and with a control pad (I use R3 to accelerare and brake). I used to play with traction control on when I had F1 2010, but turned it off after Monaco.The way I got used to playing without TC was to practice(with TC on) being progressive with the throttle application rather than just plant the throttle down and I made sure the steering wheel was straight before applying the throttle. Now when I turned it off, finally, I had much better throttle application, so all I needed to do was fine tune it with a little bit of practice. (If you do practice this technique or not the best tracks to practice on are ones like Kuala Lumpur ans Shanghai. It is a fine art, but all-in-all the most important thing is practice,practice,practice
     
  12. Thanks Chris & Scott. This is a really good thread for all of us trying to deal with an increasingly slippy back end (Matron!). The tips on the set-up totally make sence and its alway good to have videos from the mighty Cadmuss to illustrate this finer points of racing, cheers. Hope he's fairing well in Nigeria. @ Dave F. Not recived the paddles in the post yet mate as they're coming from the US, but I'd be happy to post a thread on them once I've installed them and had a chance to try them out if people are interested? Back on topic. :)
     
  13. Gentle throttle control and steering input is key. I use a controller so don't have an opinion on how to drive with a wheel. With regards to setup, I always have the rear wing between 75-125% more than the front (eg, 4-7 or 4-9, this is just my preference). Also the Anti-Roll Bar is a big help, I find that if the rear steps out I reduce the rear ARB (usual setup is 4-8 for most tracks).
     
  14. must remember Paul is my good old online chum spiggs - sigh this real name thing is confusing lol
     
  15. Thanks for the info guys. Very useful.

    I think the thing with traction is that with all other assists, I can see alight at the end of the tunnel - and I can see myself having them all turned off. But traction is a different beast.

    Will keep practicing.
     
  16. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    Definitely need to have assists off to get any feedback in a setup/testing session. TCS and ABS will both just hide poor setup.
    If you think about sitting in a car weighing 650KG with 745HP in a car park with your steering wheel turned and flattening the throttle and imagine what would happen....
    Then think about reducing steering lock to 20% and feathering (slight use of)the throttle. The difference between the two is throttle control.
    Persevere as the video game will start to feel like car when you drop TCS.
    As it happens my setups are along the same lines as Dan Smiths post above. Rear wing usually roughly double front wing.

    Following is a piece that may help you.

    An expanded piece on driving without TCS (Traction control system).
    As we move to lower assists some drivers have asked for more info on driving without TCS.
    Corner Exit:The more steering lock you have “wound on” and the slower you are going the greater the propensity for wheel-spin. TCS will manage this by taking off power the moment there is a hint of wheel-spin. For you to drive well without TCS the key skill really is to manage a progressive throttle application. If you stomp on the throttle with the wheel turned you will get wheel spin and possibly a slide. In essence you gradually/progressively apply throttle as you wind off steering lock. As your wheel straightens the foot goes down. It is really a movement that is linked as if by an invisible piece of string. This is why Walter Rohrls’ brilliant mental picture of a piece of string works so well.
    In your head there is a piece of string tied from the bottom of the steering wheel to the big toe of your throttle foot. So you can only access full throttle when the wheel is straight. Automatically as you straighten the wheel exiting a corner your string gets longer allowing more throttle.
    Another mental image could be: 1[SUP]st[/SUP] gear 30% throttle, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] gear. 60 %, 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] gear 90%, 4[SUP]th[/SUP] gear 100%.
    If we want to get even more precise and technically correct the aero down-force influence starts to kick in as speed picks up. By 5[SUP]th[/SUP] gear the string is replaced by elastic, by 6[SUP]th[/SUP] gear it’s not there at all. Hence Eau Rouge you can have near full lock at full throttle in 6[SUP]th[/SUP]-7[SUP]th[/SUP] at 250kph.
    Another interesting phenomenon is where you might in a fast corner wind off lock temporarily to allow more throttle/acceleration then as aero influence kicks in wind on more lock. This happens in Spa corner 10-11 “Pouhon”. Under full fuel approaching in 6[SUP]th[/SUP] gear I will brake at about 75 metres and downshift to 4[SUP]th[/SUP]. Once getting good turn in, feed in more throttle on slight lock and as corner opens in 5[SUP]th[/SUP] give full throttle then 6[SUP]th[/SUP] at corner exit with full lock. The higher speed gradually allows more lock due to aero influence (and in a small way centrifugal effect of the wheels).
    So in essence you have to develop a connection between the movements of your hands and of your feet. Here follows the section in the F1 2010 Advanced Drivers Guide that also deals with it albeit briefly.
    1. Exit. The simplest and least cerebral part where you benefit from your good work in braking and apex phase. At this point you want to get the power down as fast as possible without breaking traction. The car will accelerate faster with minimum steering lock so once past apex allow the car to drift as wide as possible under throttle. If you leave track remaining unused outside you it means you could have carried more speed in corner or applied throttle earlier or harder or used less steering input on exit. All of these actions will net more speed. Exiting slow corners one must be mindful of avoiding wheel spin. This is because of the extra acceleration available in lower gears and the reduction in aero down force at lower speeds. In faster corners you can apply throttle more aggressively. The co-efficient of adhesion is higher than that of friction so wheel spin costs time. When dealing with throttle application a good mental image is that of a piece of string tied to the bottom of the steering wheel and your big toe. As you wind off lock your big toe is freed to apply more throttle.
     
  17. One thing I've never seen mentioned (both for F1 2010 and 2011) is the race start without TC.
    With traction control it's pretty easy - just press the throttle and the system will take care of any wheelspin. With TC off it gets a lot more tricky. Too much throttle and the wheels spin while the engine roars, less throttle and suddenly you're doing a "Mark Webber" and lose positions.
    How to start without spinning the wheels or overreving and at the same time do it at least as fast as the AI does?
     
  18. Graham Laing

    Graham Laing
    ...... mostly harmless Staff

    Thanks Paul, that video clarifies it much more, as I was under the impression that they stuck to the paddle buttons, but they don't, they stick to the wheel hub itself. I like the look of them, I think I will get a set in the near future.

    Cheers

    Sorry for the off topic guys ......
     
  19. Doing No traction control with the pad is just....mmmmm... let´s say stressful... I think that with a wheel and pedals is kinda easy (just a bit). Trying both (No TCS and quiting autogears) Just... insane...

    I´m practicing no TCS a lot. I think in some tracks i almost didn´t spin anymore but i´m too slow... have to practice more...
    My recommendation.... be patient.. it´s hard
     
  20. Something I recently noticed (and this may be known, but it was an "a-ha!" moment for me), is that with a wheel weight percentage higher than the FFB strength percentage (in the advanced force feedback options menu), the wheel weight can mask the "feel" you get of the front end sliding when you come in hot or the rear end starting to lose traction in a slow corner. Set the weight percentage lower than the FFB percentage and the wheel gives you slack when either end starts sliding and makes it much easier to catch the slide. Just something to check, as I've been running a higher wheel weight percentage but the effects were hidden by TC and ABS.