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To some fans, does Vettel and his nature make Schumi look like a good guy?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Mohameddo-san, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Mohameddo-san

    Mohameddo-san
    F1 Sim Racer & #1 St. Bernard Lover on RD Premium Member

    I liked Schumacher despite his cheating ways. He was hated by his teammates like Verstappen, Herbert, Irvine, and Barrichello. He was always mired in controversy, but, he has never acted like a spoiled brat and has shown more class than Vettel has ever shown when he arrived in F1.

    Schumacher never did the loco sign when he crashed into his teammates.

    Schumacher always had team orders benefit him, but, he never disobeyed them when Irvine was competing for the title. He did celebrate Mika Hakkinen winning the title though.

    Schumacher went through 5 years of not winning a title for Ferrari before he finally won it. Sebastian Vettel on the other hand, hardly ever goes through bad luck and the car is almost always working for him. That is why he won three titles. The only time Seb ever proved himself worthy was when he won Monza 2008 in an underpowered Toro Rosso.

    I have never seen a World Champion act so bratty and entitled like Vettel. Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen, and even Button show more humility than he does.

    Call me a hater, but, this is just my view.
     
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  2. Several flaws in your post.

    1) Verstappen and Schumacher always got along very well with each other, in fact, Michael once mentioned to a german newspapers that Verstappen is his best mate in the paddock.

    2) The loco-thing: Who cares about that? Seriously, is that a reason to dislike a driver?

    3) How could Michael always have team orders benefiting him when at the same time he gifted the win in Malaysia 1999 to Irvine, who would have otherwise been annihilated because Michael qualified 1 second clear of the rest of the field in his first comeback race since his crash at Silverstone that same year?

    What Michael did in Malaysia was remarkable. Furthermore, everyone remembers what happened in Austria 2002 - but do you folks also remember that Michael also gifted two racewins to Rubens, one in Monza and the other one in the US-Grand Prix (although the 2nd one wasn't intentional)?

    4) Vettel proved himself worthy more often than just in Monza 2008. Let's take Indianapolis 2007, scoring a point in his very first race. Or China 2007, finishing 4th. And honestly: It's not like being in the best team and having the best car makes your success less worthy, that's just BS. You still have to get out and get everything out of yourself to finish on top, and let's not forget that every team has got 2 drivers and what has Mark achieved in the best car on the grid for the last 3 years? Exactly, not even a lousy vice-championship.

    It wasn't very long ago when I was thinking exactly like all these people think about Vettel - no racecraft, can only win if he starts from the front, always in the best car, etc. etc. But you know what: After three years of me believing that, and at the same time three years of Vettel dominating the sport more or less I simply cannot convince myself anymore that these claims are facts, and not just wishful thinking. Vettel is an outstanding driver in an outstanding time with an outstanding timing - he's at the right place at the right time and I can't blame him for maximizing his chances by driving faultlessly.

    Ow yeah, last but not least: Alonso and humility? LMFAO!

    - Betrayed his own team because they didn't give him #1 status which he didn't deserve
    - Consistantly moaning about his car being so much slower and himself being the only one to get everything out of that car
    - Claiming that Vettel is due to bad luck soon (who the hell is Alonso to claim these kind of things)
    - Asking for teamorders everytime he can't get past his teammate on his own
    - Refusing to have a more competitive teammate
     
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  3. 'hardly ever goes through bad luck'

    2010: Lost wins at Australia, Bahrain and Korea due to mechanical issues. In 3 of those it helped his main rival, Alonso heavily.

    2012: Mechanical failures at Europe and Italy. The first of which helped Alonso heavily again.

    If you actually take away all of the bad luck for all drivers in 2010 and 2012, Vettel would of beaten Alonso by many many points (although Vettel would of been beaten himself by Hamilton in 2012 if so)
     
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  4. Let's not forget that 1/3 of Alonsos wins were down to the guy infront of him retiring...
     
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  5. Kevin Ascher

    Kevin Ascher
    #47 Roaring Pipes Maniacs

    He proves himself worthy whenever he finishes several positions ahead of his team mate which usually is the case!
     
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  6. Bram

    Bram
    Roaring Pipes Maniacs | #27 Staff Premium Member

    Lol even Button? In my opinion Jenson is one of the most down to earth people in the paddock.
     
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  7. Hamilton showing humility? Look at Spa last year, he was being comprehensively beaten by his team-mate, threw the toys out of the prams and posted vital telemetry information on Twitter.

    Alonso likes to make people believe that his car is a lot slower than it actually is.

    Raikkonen - well for somebody who's nickname is 'The Iceman', he does do a fair bit of moaning.

    Vettel gets a lot more stick than he deserves, the way some people go on it's as if he has had a car 1 second quicker than everybody else.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Maybe we watched different Formula 1 but in my world, called reality, he did actually have cars that were on many occasions a second clear of any other car.
     

  9. Any other car? I thought Red Bull had two drivers ;)

    How could you possibly know on these supposed 'many occasions' that the car was 1 second quicker?
     
  10. Not two equally quick drivers obviously. Or consistent should i say.

    Not sure if you are familiar with Qualifying and timing systems but it´s pretty cool actually.
    You take a car, dump the fuel, let the driver push the car to it´s absolute maximum and then a time pops out from the machine saying how fast you have gone.
    This process is repeated several times throughout the season as well.
     

  11. Please stop talking to me like I'm an idiot, you're just making yourself look arrogant.

    About your post: Maybe at points Vettel has had the quickest car; but, it hasn't been 1 second clear of any other car. Not every driver is the same speed, how can we truly know who is fastest.

    An example of this is Austin last year: Hamilton and Vettel were extremely close in lap times during the race and in quali. After the race, many flocked to forums - not this one so much - and were praising Hamilton as if he had beaten Vettel in a Marrussia!

    It seems as when Vettel wins, it is the car but when Hamilton, Alonso or Raikkonen win it's because of their talent.

    A lot of people also make the point Vettel has always had the most dominant car but Hamilton has always been in a top team but I rarely - nearly never - hear anyone questioning his ability if he were to have a lesser car in the midfield.
     
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  12. Then please stop writing like one.

    At points? Do you remember 2010 or 2011?
    Even in 2009 second half it was very dominant.

    I think i recall some article many years back saying the absolute top guys differ maybe 2 tenths in naked pace.
    To compare two drivers let them run the same car. We´ve seen Hamilton and Alonso go at it.
    Hamilton and Rosberg now as well. But Vettel? He´s got Webber..
    Before that, Bourdais.

    Who knows maybe Vettel is quickest but until we get a proper comparison we can only look at qualifying times and in two years he was a second clear of any other car on a few occasions.
    He´s had proper All-time-list type of cars that will go down in history, you can´t deny that...

    And why would this bother you?

    Well there´s no denying he´s hit the jackpot when it comes to car design.


    It´s a difference being in a top team and a top car and what it is to driving in a top team but no top car.

    It will be interesting to see Vettel in a car similar to F2012.
    An absolute dog then just drag a win out of it from nowhere.
     
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  13. These constant debates over which driver is quickest is never going to be solved. Why cant people just admire these tremendous atheletes who have dedicated their lives to the love of motorsport? People seem to forget that they are human beings just like me and you, and they do make mistakes, but they give us wonderful enjoyment dont you think? Raikonnen, Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton - they are all bloody quick and they have all had the benefit of fast cars through their careers, some more than others. But who is quickest or has deserved the most titles? Disagree with me but it's splitting hairs really...
     
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  14. Well Hampus is a self-proclaimed guru so who are we to argue with him ;)
     
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  15. Verstappen and Schumacher often went karting in Genk and Kerpen to race each other. They were good friends. And in the year Verstappen was replaced by Frentzen at Arrows, Schumacher had mentioned Verstappen to become test driver at Ferrari, but Verstappen obeyed his contract with Tom Walkinshaw..

    Also Verstappen and Schumacher were in 1 pre-race interview on the Dutch tv, where they were having some fun together..


     
  16. Mohameddo-san

    Mohameddo-san
    F1 Sim Racer & #1 St. Bernard Lover on RD Premium Member

    Vettel, twice, has been disrespectful to Webber. Schumacher, aside from almost ramming Barrichello into the wall, which he didn't mean to, has hardly ever been disrepectful to his past teammates.

    Rarely in modern F1 have I seen anyone be so disrespectful to his teammates; well, you can count Prost being disrespectful to Senna and perhaps you can count Senna crashing out Prost the year after.

    Hamilton, with the exception of Alonso, got along with Kovalainen, Button, and he has a nice friendship with Rosberg.

    A lot of teammates don't like each other, but, even now, they don't cross the line the Vettel does.

    This thread is not about who is a better driver; it is simply me wondering if the hatred for Vettel, which I obviously share with many F1 fans makes Schumacher look like a saint.
     
  17. Mohameddo-san

    Mohameddo-san
    F1 Sim Racer & #1 St. Bernard Lover on RD Premium Member

    Look, I'm not doubting Vettel being better than Webber, because he is.

    I just think something really needs to happen to put make him realise he's not godly in F1.

    He has had the fastest and most reliable car since late '09 (discounting early 2010), he's had Newey's expertise, Christian Horner and Helmut Marko favour him and hardly discipline him, and he hasn'tt gone through major turmoil like nearly every World Champions before him to win the title.

    He earned his place on the team, I won't doubt that either, but, any kind of bad luck he has gotten in his career is very minor compared to the bad luck Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton (he won in a significant moment in his second season) and Button had to put up with throughout their careers.
     
  18. Honestly, put your hand on your heart: That thing with Vettel being disrespectful is just a desperate try to find SOMETHING negative to mention about Vettel. I support Hamilton but what he did in Spa 2012 was disrespectful towards Button. Tweeting telemetry data to prove that the only reason you've got beaten by your teammate is the wrong setup is disrespectful (apart from being plain dumb aswell).

    LMAO. Prost and Senna were as disrespectful as teammates could be to each other. No comparison to Webber/Vettel. What about Nigel Mansell and Nelson Piquet? Or Gilles Villeneuve and Didier Pironi?

    Besides, it wasn't particularly difficult for Hamilton to get along with Kovalainen. Heikki was a) too slow to be a serious threat and b) nice enough to know that he's only #2. And whether or not the friendship with Rosberg is going to continue remains to be seen.


    Well, if this is really the only purpose of this thread then forgive me when I say that it's the dumbest thread with the dumbest intention I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot of them).And before anyone says: Why do you post in here then? - Because I want to be amused. ;)


    I doubt he thinks that highly of himself, but let me ask you a question: We've got a three times WDC, a guy who's in an incredibly lucky situation and a guy who's maximizing his chances and rarely making mistakes on the one hand. And on the other hand we have an anonymous user who believes that he is in a position to make judgements about Vettel's performances and more importantly: That very same user believes that he has got the legitimation to belitte Vettel's success. Now, who's the one suffering from a god-complex? Is it Vettel or you?

    Minor? In 2010 he would've won the WDC a few races before the end of the season if he didn't retire from the lead in Australia and Korea. Furthermore he would've won in Bahrain if it wasn't for the exhaust problem he had. Moreover he didn't finish the first 5 races of the 2008 season, and only one of these DNF's was his own fault.
    He retired from the lead in Valencia 2012 after dominating the rest of the field (including his teammate). He retired in Monza and lost valuable points aswell.
    The special thing about Vettel is that at the end of the season, all these bad luck moments don't matter anymore because he is always able to snatch the title away from his rivals when it matters the most. Unfortunately, Hamilton didn't have the same kind of luck last season but that's the way it is and you cannot blame Vettel for being lucky when it matters.

    Besides, could you please tell me how Alonso has possibly faced more bad luck than Vettel did (apart from the fact that Alonso is in F1 5 years longer than Vettel)?. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Alonso has won nearly 1/3 of his races due to the guy infront of him retiring. Vettel has won 2 races the same way (Abu Dhabi 2009, Singapore 2012).
    Fernando Alonso is the epitome of luckiness, and yet he has failed to win a championship with Ferrari. Don't you remember that Alonso won the 2005 WDC mainly due to Kimi's McLaren breaking down every 2nd race of the season? Don't you remember that Alonso was about to lose the WDC in 2006 when Schumacher's engine blew up in Suzuka which (once again) gifted the win to Alonso?

    I'd say that Alonso has used up his luck more than enough. And saying that he's faced more bad luck than Vettel just underlines that you're turning a blind eye to reality.
     
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  19. All you need to do is look at the facts. But you rather fabricate your own facts and run with those.
     
  20. Vettel is a top driver, but also a top asshole. But so do Alonso and Raikkonen. Why Vettel is so much hated? That is a mystery.
     
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