rF2 Thursday August 27th 2009 - Le Mans Series @ Long Beach

[Clayton Nelmes]

C'mon guys. I think it's best just to drop this discussion and move on to todays race at Bathurst.

 

[Nick Rowland]

Bram... We're all here to have fun. That's the whole reason I signed up was to race with some good mates of mine.

But tell me... how is it fun when drivers are constantly spinning and the drivers behind getting caught up behind? That's no fun for the newer guys or us.

We're trying to be constructive here and tell you... Look we all want to have fun but there are limitations surely that you can see on what the standard and level is.

We're trying to help you out here mate so this doesn't happen again yet you throw it back at us.

 

[Lee Morris]

You guys are not helping at all, on the contrary i would say. Like i said people are scared off by the moaning.

Instead of giving newbies driving advice its a bashfest after every club event. The fun should be main factor and like Mark said the posts of the last week are everything except fun. How come that i have two events on a row (sebring and longbeach) where i really enjoyed myself online, despite the CTD yesterday, and in the same race reports i get the impression that it was hell? I dont get that.

Stop trying to change how we run things here and if you can't be constructive please dont post at all and i mean it. The fun factor is what keeps people coming back here. And my fun is completely gone as this costs a lot of people too much energy.

It's so easy to find arguments to flame somebody. Try to find something constructive and help drivers out in a positive way.

Bram did you even read my last post ? firstly i just offered to help people, to actualy spend time with them before an event and help them out..

Secondly, no one is trying to change the way you run it, infact i was only saying the other night that i like how well organised it is and that we can race every night.

Thirdly, how much fun is it when the same guy overtakes you 15 times, and nearly takes you out 15 times in 3 laps ? thats not fun to me, the rest is.. but some just need to pull off the track when they have no hope in hell of staying on, and go seek advice.. a bit like dan did last night.. he actualy asked for help.. no one else did.. the rest just keep driving round causing accidents.. which could be avoided by a little assistance.

Read the posts, we are trying to help out here, and it would also make your life easier, you just put its easier to flame people etc.. who on earth just did that ? i have not done anything of the sort and im rather offended you acuse me of it.. ive just offered help yet again, i dont want to scare people off im one of the most open guys on the internet, i used to run my own driving school lol....

Once again, please stop trying to bring us down, as the only people who are scared off at the moment is the people on the recieving end of your forum replys, as like i said yesterday you come across very arrogant, which im sure is not the case at all, as last night on track you were ne of the fairest, and best out there, and you also offered your help.

Cheers, lee

 

[Richard Kay]

...But when you've got some new guys against experience around a tight, twisty, walls everywhere track like Long Beach then your going to be expect this sort of up roar really.

And despite you expecting it you still seem rather upset by it. The only thing you can expect in a club race environment (open to all members) is people learning, be it the nuances of the mod, the track, the ways of their rivals, the limits of their ability or just the art of racing. In learning these things people make mistakes, even the top drivers in the world make mistakes, it happens.

As a club event perhaps you should stop getting so upset by some of the mistakes people make, as it's not that serious. When the league racing starts then, yeah, that raises the bar a bit and you will see people put in the work to learn the track, hone a set-up and consider their options in the race a bit more prudently.

Your putting experience with inexperience... what do you expect? A tea party?

By no means am I a mouth piece for RD and I could be wrong but I think what is expected is respect. respect for your fellow enthusiasts regardless of skill and ability and respect for the rules of this website/organization. As Bram has stated many times there are ways and means of complaining about the driving of others and it should be kept in that method and not drawn out in public as this doing.

Calling people names and insulting their intelligence only makes you look elitist and that you think only people of your skill level and racing ideology deserve to be allowed to race. The quote above suggests as much and does nothing to create a link between your "experienced" community and this one.

As a wise old scouser once said, "Calm down, Calm down!" Ok so every scouser says that but you get my drift. There are many ways of expressing your discontent at others behaviour without resorting to calling people "numpty" or "utter idiots". Constructive advice is often far more tactfully delivered and absorbed than slurs and accusations.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

You guys bring it like every accident that happens is intentional wrecking and that annoys people, including me, because i know there are a lot of new rfactor drivers that have difficulties with this mod and the club is the perfect training ground for that.

They are not allowed to make anymistakes. When somebody makes a pit exit error like on Donington there is already somebody starting to complain, and worse is that mate number 2 feels he is entitled to repeat the same complain again. Whats the use and the result? The driver you complain about thinks he is an idiot, shuts up, and is scared to make mistakes.

And how many times did i say to report an incident the proper way, but it just doesn't reach you guys. Moaning a lot but don't act when its needed.

Forum discussions like this won't help. If you feel that somebody intentionally ruined your race, do as asked and write a report, make a movie/screenshot or whatever but stop with this public complaining that leads to nowhere.

We are not investigating one single accident without a proper report!

 

[Nick Rowland]

I've said all I've needed to now to be honest now.

Was only trying to help.

 

[Lee Morris]

You guys bring it like every accident that happens is intentional wrecking and that annoys people, including me, because i know there are a lot of new rfactor drivers that have difficulties with this mod and the club is the perfect training ground for that.

They are not allowed to make anymistakes. When somebody makes a pit exit error like on Donington there is already somebody starting to complain, and worse is that mate number 2 feels he is entitled to repeat the same complain again. Whats the use and the result? The driver you complain about thinks he is an idiot, shuts up, and is scared to make mistakes.

And how many times did i say to report an incident the proper way, but it just doesn't reach you guys. Moaning a lot but don't act when its needed.

Forum discussions like this won't help. If you feel that somebody intentionally ruined your race, do as asked and write a report, make a movie/screenshot or whatever but stop with this public complaining that leads to nowhere.

We are not investigating one single accident without a proper report!

How do we, ? again have you even taken 5 minutes to read my post ?

Ive offered help, i race in a league where ive had incidents many times latley and lost results and money due to it.. but its what happends sometimes.. infact ive been taken out the last 3 races in a proffesional televised league but it happends im afraid we know that.

We used to both run our own league so we can understand that fully.

Also.. who is trying to report an incident ? im not.. im simply trying to offer help and point some things out that may be of assistance to you, but you dont seem to want to listen to me or anyone else..

No one is trying to tell you how to run anything, all im saying is even thought it is a club.. if a new person joins he should have some basic skills before he takes to the track, that has nothing to do with you but the driver in question, he should make some time to practice and learn or get assistance. from driving schools that are up and running, i dont run one at the moment but have done and coached many drivers to success.

Everyone makes mistakes.. its wheather your learn from them or not and alot of people didnt last night, they just got worse and worse as the race went on and threatened every car that went past them, which just isnt fair on anyone.

 

[Mark A Warmington]

I for one would love to take Lee up on his offer to help improve (I am in this for personal development). So I hope that he (Lee) can see that his offers of help and assistance are a) welcomed and b) exaclty what the Racing Club is all about. I also have no issue with people being upset that their race was ruined (makes sense). I just think that this 'debate' has kicked off, and has been running all week, because there is a misunderstanding of what the Racing Club is for.

There used to be a Friendly Driver Development series here and it was for inexperienced drivers to get on track, get help and develop without having to fight with experienced drivers who were out to have a good race and get a result.

We don't have that now (unless I have missed the forum thread ) so we have Racing Club instead. I think the 'my raced was ruined' feeling is because of the expectation prior to the event. When the main series kicks off the standard will be higher. I would suggest waiting until then before getting on track with the less experienced - as the club events are training grounds.

Again - Lee, your offer is brilliant and I am sure I know a number of sim-racers who would bite your hand off for the advice. So don't take the feedback on this forum as personally directed at you - it is pretty much only about the use of words like 'idiot' etc.

Without the name calling and insults I doubt this topic would be so hot. Everyone would have just said 'sorry' or 'you're right, I hadn't considered that...' But - as soon as names start flying around people get defensive and roll their sleeves up for a fight. If the name calling quits, the feedback will be taken better.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Introducing the FD to rFactor might be a really good solution and then all the advise is very welcome as it is constructive in helping the newer drivers.

Very good idea :thumb:

 

[Shaun Stroud]

Hi guys, Bram the reason i haven't reported these incidents is because i don't think they should be punished for them, just needs highlighting so they can learn from there mistakes, if people just ask for help before the race starts I'm sure many people would gladly help them if they are struggling.

But really the bickering isn't the way to sort this, just let everyone drive and get he experience they need, this is a club race so it isn't serious and just a test for the main league series that is coming up.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Hi guys, Bram the reason i haven't reported these incidents is because i don't think they should be punished for them,

An incident report is to report an incident. It doesn't automatically mean that drivers get punished (on the contrary i would say) most of the time we watch the incident people provide on video and internally discuss it what to do and most of the times a private message to the person that is the subject of the report is enough to make them aware of what they did wrong.

Only when is completely unacceptable then we take actions (especially when its a breach of the golden rules (click) because they can be avoided at all times.)

 

[Ramon van Rijn]

Just stepping into this almost flame-war thread

Starting up some training events sounds like an excellent idea. Especially in those mixed car events.

 

[Shaun Stroud]

An incident report is to report an incident. It doesn't automatically mean that drivers get punished (on the contrary i would say) most of the time we watch the incident people provide on video and internally discuss it what to do and most of the times a private message to the person that is the subject of the report is enough to make them aware of what they did wrong.

Only when is completely unacceptable then we take actions (especially when its a breach of the golden rules (click) because they can be avoided at all times.)

Ok mate, apologies if i didn't completely understand the incident report process here, but that is a very good system as everyone gets a fair shot at racing which is good, will report a few things later today then if that's how it's all dealt with

 

[Lee Morris]

Well we seem to all understand each other now

Id gladly help anyone out, if anyone wants some track time with me, i can use teamspeak/ventrillo also for english speaking people, no offence but i cant speak any other language lol.. bit of german thats about it haha..

If anyone would like track time, feel free to PM me and lets get down to work

cheers guys, i think this discussion has been more constructive than at a glance tbh.

 

[Martin Bulgin]

I want to add that if these were league races people would be justified in having a bit of a moan, I probably would myself and I would report incidents but its not a league nothing is at stake and to most of the members here this is a new form of racing and these races are to learn, I made some good safe overtakes last night and some poor ones and one or two I messed right up, tonight I am determined not to attempt silly overtakes, I (and I`m sure others) am trying to learn from our mistakes, sometimes you will be behind a GT car and he may run wide at a corner, but it looks like he is inviting you to pass, this is where I made some mistakes, so the more club races we run the better it will get, silly really because I am in a GT car for the first league race :sweat: The LMP guys and GT guys need to get along to make the league a success.

 

[Ramon van Rijn]

I think RD would be more than willing to set up a server for these kind of training Lee. Just ask!