Thin flickering white lines across track @ Eau Rouge

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 27, 2015

Am I really the only one who get thin flickering white lines @ Eau Rouge ?

This is also happening at the end of the long straight @ Nordshleife.

The strange thing is that it disappears completely when using cockpit view

Also when I get closer the lines disappears gradually.

Please view @ 1080P -60FPS

Nordschleife after the Bilstein Bridge

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 30, 2015

liquido said:
I never noticed until now... cockpit view user. They only disapear in cockpit view and is strange, I got them no matter visual configuration I use.

You should post on official forum, no excuses, just do it.

Already posted at the official forum but they are ignoring it completely !
IMO Graphic problems like this just doesn't belong in a next gen Sim.

mclarenf1papa · Aug 30, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
Then the following questions must be:

How come they totally disappears when using cockpit view ?

And why is it only showing on a few places/tracks ?

Probably disappearing with cockpit view because of the difference in FOV between that and bonnet cam....and it's only on a few places because that's just how it is....it's a layered 3d model with a transparent tire texture (dark) on top of the track (light), the graphics engine has issues rendering them at a distance since they're only millimeters apart. Kunos can't do much other than make the rubber layer higher from the ground, which will make it -even more so than now- appear as though it's floating (which IMO is worse than having a bit of flickering at very far away distances).

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 31, 2015

mclarenf1papa said:
Probably disappearing with cockpit view because of the difference in FOV between that and bonnet cam....and it's only on a few places because that's just how it is....it's a layered 3d model with a transparent tire texture (dark) on top of the track (light), the graphics engine has issues rendering them at a distance since they're only millimeters apart. Kunos can't do much other than make the rubber layer higher from the ground, which will make it -even more so than now- appear as though it's floating (which IMO is worse than having a bit of flickering at very far away distances).

I agree with Buddy Rich !

If you can do it to 100%, why not do it ?

Radu Oros · Aug 31, 2015

Do you notice this with pp effects off? Because AC's graphics engine is done by Kunos, and the pp effects are done by Yebis, and this is currently yebis2. Probably yebis3 will be available later on time for consoles, but I don't know how much difference there is, maybe adds some effects or improvements.

mclarenf1papa · Aug 31, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
I agree with Buddy Rich !

If you can do it to 100%, why not do it ?

Please explain what Kunos needs to do to 100% that will fix this issue?

Stereo · Aug 31, 2015

mclarenf1papa said:
Kunos can't do much other than make the rubber layer higher from the ground, which will make it -even more so than now- appear as though it's floating (which IMO is worse than having a bit of flickering at very far away distances).

They could LOD it so you don't see the rubber from far enough away for it to clip. And add a shader that fades transparency to 0 over a distance so there's no pop either (it's already variable transparency dependent on surface conditions afaik). I don't think it's worth it for such a small problem though (whereas the other z fighting I reported is fixable)

mclarenf1papa · Aug 31, 2015

Stereo said:
They could LOD it so you don't see the rubber from far enough away for it to clip. And add a shader that fades transparency to 0 over a distance so there's no pop either (it's already variable transparency dependent on surface conditions afaik). I don't think it's worth it for such a small problem though (whereas the other z fighting I reported is fixable)

Well the LOD thing would be weird because then it'd suddenly pop in rather than flicker, which would receive possibly even more complaints than the flickering....

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 31, 2015

Radu Oros said:
Do you notice this with pp effects off? Because AC's graphics engine is done by Kunos, and the pp effects are done by Yebis, and this is currently yebis2. Probably yebis3 will be available later on time for consoles, but I don't know how much difference there is, maybe adds some effects or improvements.

PP Effects makes no difference !

The fact that the lines disappears completely when using cockpit proves that it is not "graphical settings" related IMO.

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 31, 2015

mclarenf1papa said:
Please explain what Kunos needs to do to 100% that will fix this issue?

Pretty stupid question !

I'm not a game developer but I can clearly see when something look wrong.

It's obvious that these lines are caused by something wrong in the graphics since it does not appear on all tracks.

Sadly Kunos don't care for the minority and we all know what that is going to mean for the PC users once the Console version comes along.

Radu Oros · Aug 31, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
PP Effects makes no difference !

The fact that the lines disappears completely when using cockpit proves that it is not "graphical settings" related IMO.

Yes tested now too and still there without pp effects, and happens in all views except cockpit. And is only visible in clear and mid clear weather. Didn't try all weather presets, but seems to be the ones where the sun is present. Is either an issue of the track graphics (eau rouge seen from a distance) or graphics engine.

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 31, 2015

Radu Oros said:
Yes tested now too and still there without pp effects, and happens in all views except cockpit. And is only visible in clear and mid clear weather. Didn't try all weather presets, but seems to be the ones where the sun is present. Is either an issue of the track graphics (eau rouge seen from a distance) or graphics engine.

Yes - Weather makes a difference, more sun means more pronounced stripes.

The question is: Is the problem in the track sources, cars or game engine ?

mclarenf1papa · Aug 31, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
Yes - Weather makes a difference, more sun means more pronounced stripes.

The question is: Is the problem in the track sources, cars or game engine ?

Well that's been answered quite a few times....it's how the engine works... it happens on all tracks, you just don't notice it. It can be fixed, but there's no good way to do it.

liquido · Aug 31, 2015

mclarenf1papa said:
Well the LOD thing would be weird because then it'd suddenly pop in rather than flicker, which would receive possibly even more complaints than the flickering....

If you use diferents LOD models, you should place and set them apropiates values to not pop in your screen.. it is the only solution if the bug is caused by the engine and the way it works.

Sorry about every user that got these strange lines and no rsponse on official forum... but here there is not much to do.

Stereo · Aug 31, 2015

liquido said:
Sorry about every user that got these strange lines and no rsponse on official forum... but here there is not much to do.

They did respond that they're unlikely to change anything since it's a minor issue, but they'll look at it

liquido · Aug 31, 2015

So nothing more to say... glad that cockpit view dosen't have that issue... sorry about other users becouse I don't belive it is a minor issue... I mean it really is a minor issue, but if you discover that.. I can't image how you can take away your attention from these flickering polys... becouse human brain use to focus on flickering things... no matter the smaller they are... your brain will find it and these can be a nightmare.

mclarenf1papa · Aug 31, 2015

liquido said:
If you use diferents LOD models, you should place and set them apropiates values to not pop in your screen.. it is the only solution if the bug is caused by the engine and the way it works.

Sorry about every user that got these strange lines and no rsponse on official forum... but here there is not much to do.

Not popping in would mean they'd have to appear at a far away distance, which would mean that the flickering would still be present

liquido · Aug 31, 2015

as far I understand... the small room betwen meshes is what make that flickering appear, I wonder what happens if you add one LOD model for far distances in the rubber layer, and you put these layer 5 cm higher than the actual layer is... you think the bug remains? we should do test and see what happens.

mclarenf1papa · Aug 31, 2015

liquido said:
as far I understand... the small room betwen meshes is what make that flickering appear, I wonder what happens if you add one LOD model for far distances in the rubber layer, and you put these layer 5 cm higher than the actual layer is... you think the bug remains? we should do test and see what happens.

Ah I see what you mean. That might actually work to be honest. Just have effectively the same model but just a few cm further from the tarmac for parts of the track where it's noticeable.

Tobbe Bergman · Aug 31, 2015

liquido said:
as far I understand... the small room betwen meshes is what make that flickering appear, I wonder what happens if you add one LOD model for far distances in the rubber layer, and you put these layer 5 cm higher than the actual layer is... you think the bug remains? we should do test and see what happens.

I haven't got a clue what youre talking about but it sounds good

liquido · Sep 1, 2015

Mikaela If I'm honest my either but that is usual in other games.

I will make test in my onw project (Ascari Race Resort) but even when Ascari has similar areas to Spa, the section wich is similar is smaller compared to Spa and I'm afraid will be dificult to replicate the bug in Ascari... but I will pay attention to this bug in Ascari and we try to avoid this issue from our track.

Also I'm trying to contact to thestrobe8 who relase the Spa 1992 conversion from F1 Sim Racer Team in this forum, let see what happens if he let me test things in the Eau Rouge.

But even if I can replicate and fix that issue in unofficial tracks, it dosen't mean this can be apply to original content... and I'm only a guy trying to help not much experience here, building tracks.