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There is no coincidence, no free will in life!?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Benutzername, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Benutzername

    Online Martini Racing - Founder and driver

    I wonder if anyone will read this completely and reply to this - Maybe i am just overthinking or a bit strange, maybe not. Would like to hear your opinions. After all racedepartment is a totally different site and this is highly offtopic. But we had a category for that soooooo....

    Well, it started two days ago when i re-watched the stellar movie "Interstellar". It contains lots of correct stuff in terms of physics as far as i know, though i never liked physics in school and its one of my worst subjects in school.

    For those who still havent watched the movie, watch it - Its a great piece of work. And in that case i recommend to not read the next part because it might contain spoilers (not many, though), though the point of this thread has not exactly something to do with the movie and could be read again.

    Anyway, in Interstellar a crew is sent into space, they need to find a new planet for humanity because the earth is kinda f*cked up and the humanity wouldnt survive for long. No suitable planets are found in our galaxy, but a wormwhole appeared near Saturn. A wormwhole, as far as i understood, is a shortcut. In real-life a wormhole is hypothetical cause we never had tried it out basically. If you go through a wormhole, you can travel extreme long distances in a really short time, leading to another galaxy for example. The system is a bit like this: Space can be seen as a 2D surface and can be bend. If you pinch a hole through the surface, you'll have a connection between two points of the surface, if you are travelling through this connection, you can travel these extreme long distance in a short amount of time. Amazing if you think about it. In Interstellar they are doing that to find a suitable planet. They go on a planet and something happens, also based on true facts of physics (not theroetical, it is actually proven): Time dilation. If you know Einsteins theory of relativity, you'll know what i mean. As i said, i never was interested in physics but that got my attention just from myself, and i think thats the only way to learn things truly - You ahve to discover them and be interested in them. Anyway, i stumbled about that, and it really got me thinking. There is this famous example of two twims, one send into space and travelling with highspeed, one staying on earth. When the twin comes back to earth, its younger than its sibling. Time runs slower when travelling fast, when one is travelling with lightspeed, time stops. That does not mean that one sibling is aging quicker or slower, its a matter of perspective. The spacetwin will experience the same amount of time needed for a second like his sibling on earth. To understand that, think of you travelling with a train at 100km/h. Another train comes past you, driving with 100km/h. When you measure its speed, you'll get a result: 200km/h - Logical, cause you are travelling in the other direction, basically increasing the measurement. In reality, both trains have the same speed, 100km/h. Matter of perspective. The time dilation is presented in interstellar in a powerful way, the main character comes back and barely aged. His daughter is already above 100 years old and dying. Crazy, but possible. We just think its crazy beacuse under normal circumstances we would never experience that. Also keep in mind we cant measure any speed - I eman the earth is travelling at high speed, but we dont notice it. If you see that system from the outside, its highly noticeable, similar to the time dilation.

    So thats how i stumbled upon the theory of relativity. Also interesting: Quantumphysics. As i said previously, still no interested in physics, but i crossed ways just yesterday, again. Couldn't sleep after thinking of how everything is relative, i mean, you basically can travel in the future without aging much, depending on your speed and position. Thats amazing. And then i thought... Are there coincidences? Just a random thought, but it got me thinking and researching a bit. My first thought was: If i play with a dice, it's random. Right? Thats what one is assuming. Thinking of stochastics, yould get a 1/6 chacne of getting one number. I thought a bit about that and came to another conclusion: Thats not the case. If you take every single detail, pressure in the air, surface of the dice and many many more you actually can calculate how the dice will fall. If you know every value, there is no coincidence, for us it just looks like that because we are not thinking constantly in physics and formulas. if you think about that, everything is predetermined - Not by a god or a high power, but by physics. Even our thoughts, they are the result of actions, events and more which also depended on other events etc, which all lead to a calculateable chain reaction, if we knew every value. One might think, but i have a free will? I dont think so. It seems like we have one, but if we make a decision, we decide because of distinct factors, experiences and so on. What is anything anyway, but a series of things running through our brains? Ok, this is getting highly phylosophical... :p I discovered that science thought the smae like me before quantumphysics appeared (Newton). Then i read that Einstein himself never could believe that everything is just random, as quantumphysics are saying, he was searching for a missing value, but never found one and couldnt disprove the theory. The whole "is there randomness" lead me to the famous Schrödingers Cat experiment. The only thing that could not be predetermined so far was the decay of a nucleus, which is the reason why the experiment works. One can not say if the cat is alive or dead until one is measuring. Thats why the cat is dead and alive at the same time, the result is random and different each time. If one would repeat it infinite times, one would get a 50:50 situation of dead and alive cats. I still thought that there must be a reason for it, so i researched further and actually found a theory which explains it all - For me at least, some physicans believe it, some not. Whats your opinion? I am talking about the "Bohmsche Mechanik" also known as "De-Broglie-Bohm-Theory". Actually, never heard of that before. The theory says that everything is determined. Meaning: The particles always have a reason why they do something, we just havent discovered the value for it, yet. But if we want to measure, we are always altering the result. Easy example: Testing your blood - You'll stick a needle into your skin, changing at least some parts of the body, the skin is hurt. Something is always cahnged, and if you measure particles, you'll always change important things, leading to different results each time.

    If thats the case, it would be true, there is no free will, everything is already set. If one knows every value of every particle one can calculate everything.
    Sometime process must have started, something must have started the chain reaction which ultimately leads to the creation of everything. You see, i just watched that movie and yesterday i ahd a random thought and somehow i was awake for hours, researching a bit in a subject i always disliked, leading to the creation of everything, free will, future, time travel,...

    What do you think about it? Let me know, i am interested!

    I was raised as a christian, but dont believe in god anymore. Many people believe god created the universe, some physicans believe the univers IS able to create itself. Question to the religous people: If god created everything, who created god? That would be the same problem as we have with the creation of the universe in my opinion. Something must have started.

    Addition 2:
    We dont even know if everythign is real. I also stumbled around a exometa.de, a german website playing with the reader, caliming the world is a virtual reality, created by the future. YOU are in a virtual reality machine to learn about life because life in the future is too perfect and not challenging. That leads to many theorys about if we even exist. Also think about a bacteria, it can live within a body, but will never know that it is in a body and that theres more. That could be true for our universe, too, maybe we are part of something bigger we dont understand or something... Anyway, thats getting out of hand...

    Hopefully i am now not looked at as a freak or something, never was interested in that before but somehow got triggered this night and wanted to share it to see other opinions.
    Maybe you had a nice read, maybe not.

    Thanks for reading :p

    Might be that i am horribly wrong in some cases, as i said, im nto an expert. actually i am a noob in science.
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  2. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    Yeah..............but what's the FFB like?
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  3. Benutzername

    Online Martini Racing - Founder and driver

    Depends on your rig i assume :p
  4. Omer Said

    Omer Said
    Weresloth Staff Premium Member

    Please do not feel weird or anything. Off-topic section is here for this reason. I wish more were posting here such discussions.

    I think the freewill is just choices. Other than that, nothing is in our hands. There are thousands of paths for our future, and we pick one by taking decisions. We never know the outcome. So i believe there is indeed a free-will. If there was no free-will, i would not be able to think about it right now.

    Indeed, a dice's result is maintained by scientific calculations, but it's up to you to throw it or not. And you also pick the angle and speed you throw.

    About your "god" question: Your question gives the answer actually. You say "something must have started", so why would'nt God be the thing started it? If we keep asking "what created god", it has no end. Than you go back infinity in the past.

    It gets really mind-blowing when you think about the past too. Where were we before we born? There was life, there were people. But our existence starts in the bellies of our mothers. What happens in that moment which puts our unique "self" take control of that certain baby? Really interesting to think about, but i don't think a rock solid answer can be found with science on this regard.

    As you can see more questions rather than answers from my side. These matters are really complicated. :D
  5. Benutzername

    Online Martini Racing - Founder and driver

    Agree, it's all pretty much over the top of the thinking abilities of a human.

    Thinking back, i think the amazing channel vsauce had several videos to similar topics, all very interesting, for example the "Last Thursdaysim" theory. Kudos to Michael
  6. Milos

    Had things gone my way, who knows.. Premium Member

    hmm that's very interesting
  7. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen
    I am the Pastor Maldonado of RaceDepartment.

    That's quite interesting. I enjoy anything space related, but I've recently been getting into atomic/nuclear physics. I just can't get my head around wormholes and how they work.
  8. Benutzername

    Online Martini Racing - Founder and driver

    To stay with Interstellar, they did a short/simplified explanation:
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  9. xnorb

    Premium Member

    Skipped the interstellar thing, hope you bundled it in the one paragraph and didn't trick us :)

    Well, i have my own thoughts on some of those topics.

    a) In contrary to most i don't see the time as something that could be manipulated.
    Time is a one directional measuringtool for us.
    Just because we want to believe (yes, i believe that theoretical physics are just another form of religion) that we can revert actions or live longer than our weak human body allows us doesn't make it true.

    b) Schrödinger's cat is nothing but a nice idea to bend your mind around combined with human's god complex.
    We know this poisonous gas kills mamals of less than 5kg in a box with one cubic meter in less than 5 minutes.
    Some animals might make it for 4 minutes and 50 seconds, others might die in the first minute, but no mamal is able to stay alive for longer than 5 minutes.
    Now if you put the cat in there, let the gas in and then wait for 10 minutes, the cat is dead.
    Just because we don't KNOW it, doesn't mean that it's any different.
    The cat is dead. It's true. It's a fact. The only thing not real is our definite knowledge of the fact.

    Guess you can tell i hate it when people come up with that nonsense and make them feel like god being the one to decide if the cat is dead or not ;) It's dead. Get over it :)

    c) Start lower than with the free will
    What keeps moss growing in Alaska where it takes it 50 years to even grow to the size of a few cms in diameter? Why is there this incredible strong desire to mate and give birth? Why are we by instinct led to survive? (in general, some always die)

    I think we and our lives are determined by our genes.
    Our genes want us to survive, our genes want us to reproduce, our genes determine which position in our community we will take.

    A free will?
    To some extend Yes. I think the future isn't written yet.
    But also No. Because i think we're way more influenced by biochemical actions in our body - triggered by our genes.
  10. Omer Said

    Omer Said
    Weresloth Staff Premium Member

    I think we are not controlled by our genes. Yes, they shape our personality and tastes, but decisions are strictly not related. Genes would always want to survive, yet there are 1000s of people doing crazy sports and love being closer to death. We would live like animals if the genes had controlled us. Humankind is extremely different than animals and plants imo.
  11. Samuel Fuller

    Samuel Fuller
    Premium Member

    Nice read. In answer to who created God the bible states that God is from eternity to eternity meaning he had no begining. Which I agree is hard to comprehend. However I personally find that easier to believe than the option of something coming from nothing.
  12. You got the Schrodinger's cat completely wrong. You don't just put a cat in the box with the poison, that would not be paradox. The poison has to be released, while the cat is there, by a random trigger.... I think the original used some kind of unstable radioactive thingy that is decided as randomly as possible on subatomic level, quantum level even. The point is, there's an equal chance the poison to be released, killing the cat, or stay contained, without harming the cat. After a period of time, the only way to find out if the cat is dead or not is to open the box, observe. This is an important point in quantum mechanics, that the observation itself changes the outcome of an experiment. If theres no observation made, the cat stays inside the box both dead and alive simultaneously.

    I do believe in God... Im not sure he is still present now or able to change something anymore, more likely he just created the whole intricate mechanism of the world, he might not even be conscious, just a single impulse. I don't really believe in free will, more likely its just an illusion, created by the perceived randomness of laws we cant understand.
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  13. JeffL

    Right on Brother, I hear ya, it's all good. Premium Member

    Is the universe so old that the original accidental spark became intelligent life so advanced that it has been manipulating multi-dimensional universes for trillions of years. I think the biggest mistake of mankind, since most of the worlds religions are tribal, is anthropomorphism of the mystery.
  14. xnorb

    Premium Member

    I knew i forgot something :)

    Well, so why do we need to talk about Schrödinger's cat then?
    I don't know if it's raining or not until i look outside. Yay! Herbert's rain. There you have it, where's my nobel prize? :D

    But ya, theoretical physics is definitely not my cup of tea.
    Not because i don't understand it (which i don't because i have done literally 0 reading on it) but because it's more or less just guesswork by adding dimensions and mystical unknown components that it's nothing but philosophy with maths for me :)