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The SIM "scale"

Discussion in 'Other Racing Games' started by Msportdan, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    The SIm "Scale"

    What annoys me the most is on the internet is the whole SIM arcade simcade debate…

    I mean any racing title trying to be authentic i would call a Simulator, however i would grade this. is in a ranked kind of system. SO there 4 levels of a simulator. No sim on pc is 100% realistic no pc and ffb wheel can replicate these feelings.

    So you could have:

    Level 1 SIm (90% authentic) = Rf2, GSC, Assetto corsa, RBR

    Level 2 Sim (75% authentic) = Raceroom, Pcars, Dirt Rally

    Level 3 Sim (50% authentic)= Forza, GT, Shift2,

    Level 4 Sim (25% authentic) = Dirt, Grid autosport

    Arcade (0% authentic) = Burnout, NFS, Gas guzzlers, Mariokart

    Anyway you see where I'm going with this…I personally think this would be a better system than just to call something sim, arcade or simcade, which most of the times just doesnt make sense and doesnt cover enough scale.

    Ill let the iracing fans rank that :)
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  2. ouvert

    Premium Member

    I don`t know .. giving any sim status to games that are clearly not sims in traditional way just makes things more confusing and complicated ...

    Which 25% of simulation are applied for Level 4 sims ?
    Just the fact that it simulates positing you into cockpit of a car that has some wheels that are rotating to move forwards and you are steering by applying functions set to steer left/right and when you press brake you`ll stop ..
    What Sim level is GTA, what is Mario Karts ?
  3. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    They would be arcade status. Only the scale would be for simulators so to speak.

    The percentage is the amount of the sim actually representing real life, this could be various.
  4. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    So whilst this topic annoys you greatly, you post a discussion on the subject? ;)

    Suprised that Iracing doesn't come into your sliding scale anywhere, nor Race 07 or GTR2 or the codies F1 sims? Either way I don't think too many people are actually bothered. We paly wha we like, when we like.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  5. ouvert

    Premium Member

    well if Dirt has 25% for sim it kind of has 75% arcade in it, right? so why not just place it on Level 2 Arcade (75%) .. it is more arcade than sim, why should it be stated as any kind of sim .. again, it would just make mess, confusions and more nonsense argues about this subject .. :)

    And even Mario karts and GTA has arguably some level of sim in themself :)
  6. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    its still better than calling eveyrthing simcade!...
  7. ouvert

    Premium Member

    why ? why does it even matter .. I`ll like it I play it, don`t need to worry about sticker on the box :) .. who decides what is what (what is more sim GTR2 or GTR Evo .. you can argue for ages) , for me GRID Autosport is not Sim, not Simcade, not Arcade .. where should I place it ? (personaly in a big big box labeled BAD GAMES) ..
  8. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    But everything under your level one could fit into the simcade bracket quite nicely. Although I'd put Raceroom in level 1 and Dirt Rally in level 3. ;)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. ouvert

    Premium Member

    I wouldn`t place AC on the same level as GTR2 or GSC for exapmple.

    Yes it does have more complex physics but it would be still one level down on my list since list is called Sim racing games not Car Physics Sim Games :)
    So I can agree that GSC, GTR2 are Level 1 Sims, but I would put AC on Level 2 .. or I would just place them all in Sim Racing Games with little note to AC saying "Not there yet" :)
  10. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    But online SIM racing with AC is the best. It is pure sim like. You should try it here.
    • Haha Haha x 1
  11. ouvert

    Premium Member

    oh I tried :) ...
  12. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    Did you find it too hard? ;) I find it a real challenge.
    • Haha Haha x 1
  13. ouvert

    Premium Member

    well I don`t have interest in league racing (time issues, I mostly race when other are working) and my last race experience (just like pretty much every race with variations) was me being rammed twice in last lap while leading by ambitious player who tried to overtake by any cost, using me as stopping device (second time I was accually letting him go, taking corner super wide cause I overshoot breaking on previous corner and I know he would crash me when trying to overtake with me being on ideal line) .. same old story ;)

    EDIT: oh, be "here" you ment Racedepartment leagues ? no that I haven`t tried (i stated why) and I`m putting AC on hold for a while anyway due another issues with it
  14. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    Its not like that here. And we race casually in the club as and when you feel like it. No league. You are talking about public servers and they are bad.
  15. AC online is garbage, only good for Touristenfahrten.

  16. Jimlaad43

    Nice apex, I'll take it! Premium Member

    Level 6 Sim - Codemasters F1 series
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. [​IMG]
  18. Ole Marius Myrvold

    Ole Marius Myrvold
    JWB 96-13 Staff

    Anyone here know about about the Kinsey Scale? That also works for Sim vs Arcade.
    Google it if you want :)
  19. Alberto Casado

    Alberto Casado
    Premium Member

    Most problems of these things is what I call "false quantification", but could also call "getting numbers out of your ass and sticking them to something even if it doesn't make sense just to make it look precise".

    Famous examples are "there is a risk of 50%" (so, lets flip a coin and decide there is or not risk) or "I am 80% sure" (are you sure from monday to saturday? are you sure in 80% of the instances of the multiverse? are you sure of 80% of the topic discussed, or what?).
    You see where I am going.

    If you don't share the formula that leads to the 75% it is simply useless to put a number. Having tyre temp simulation is how much authenticity, 0%, 2%, 20%?

    Say that to be a car sim a game MUST have:
    - wheel support
    - cars
    - cockpit view

    Those do not add to the number, this are all or nothing multipliers. If the game has no cars is 0% car sim, no discussion.

    Then there are factors that a car sim may or may not have:
    - weather
    - track evolution
    - free setup
    - telemetry
    - beautifully modeled 3D screws on the wheels
    - ...

    If a game would have all of this, that would be 100% sim.

    Then you have to assign weights to each factor, because you probably don't care much for the screws on the wheels, but not having setups is a major miss. Remember they must all add to 100% in the end.

    - weather - 10%
    - track evolution - 10%
    - free setup - 50%
    - telemetry - 29%
    - beautifully modeled 3D screws on the wheels 1%
    - ...

    Now you get your list of games and check what do they have miss:

    game 1 has free setup and weather: 60%
    game 2 has telemetry and free setup: 79%
    game 3 has telemetry, setup, weather but NO wheel support: 89%? NO! 0%
    and so on

    Then you sit and wait for the avalanche of suggestions of factors that you missed. Or disagreement on the weighting of the factors. These two points are the whole quid of the quantification, and actually the only good way to do them is to ask many people and assign values based on statistics on the answers.

    And, after all, you will have a procedure and a result, which can be a number. It still could be wrong but it is not completely useless because at least it is known where the number came from.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    Sponsored by BRUT Premium Member

    Load of waffle.
    • Haha Haha x 1