Being a 'sim' racer, well as such I have RF2, AC, AMS, iRacing, RRE etc and wheel and pedal set up and take it relativley seriously, i find it odd what people expect from the games regards grip..... Even more odd to me is how actually i findd that the so called arcade or simcade games seem to make the cars harder to handle via lack of grip than the true 'sims'. Forza i find terrible for grip at default set ups, they make the GT3 LMP cars harder to drive and get grip for example than say the lower cars on road rubber, that makes no rational sense, so they are over 'gaming' it to make it seem like the transition to the higher 'levels' of the game is harder to drive... I find any of the F1 cars in codemasters games to be harder to drive than AC / RF2 etc, because they seem to be so twitchy in codemasters games, certainly at least in 2015 and 2016 as i've not played 2017 and won't... Why do some people call games simcade yet actually those games are less realistic with grip levels thus harder? Another example from RF2 is the Skip barber is harder to control than the F1 cars...which i would expect in real life too, for anyone not aware about the skip barber and how its engineered to be hard to drive you need to go take a read on google. Take the rear and front wing off an F1 car and if the drivers tried to take a corner at normal speeds with aero they would crash. What is allowing drivers to take corners at those speeds is of course the tyres as one apart but also the aero. Anyway, many will not agree with me but where did the myth of no grip come from? Why do i find it easier to drive the F1 car in AC or RF2 than i did in Forza (not enough grip) How is "too much grip" arcade? when an F1 car can generate between 1500 and 1700 kg of down force, enough to travel upside down in a tunnel... Why do we want to belive grip doesn't exist and its only driver skill that keeps a car on the grey stuff?