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Teams Borrowing drivers

Discussion in 'Simracing Team Challenge' started by Ben Tusting, Jul 7, 2009.

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  1. Hi everyone

    For the past couple of weeks something has been bothering me.
    This is Teams Borrowing drivers just for the STC league and not using the drivers they already have. So I would like a new rule in place where you can only field your own drivers not borrowed drivers.

    If this didn't make any sense example below

    I borrow Lewis Hamilton for the STC League he isn't part of BVM so he shouldn't be allowed to driver for me.
  2. I see your point Ben and I guess it could be a good rule if it was needed.,

    Who has been borrowed though recently? I don't recall any driver's who have been borrowed.
  3. I agree.
    It is supposed to be a "Team Challenge" so I'd say that it would only be allowed to use drivers who really are active in the team.
    I actually thought this was allready a rule, just because it's so logical.
  4. Hey Ben, I see the point on your complain, but please, say why you opened the thread (what case?).

    In the TBR case, we have signed new drivers becasue we are not having enough active drivers to compete, not only here but in other competitions we will take part maybe, but TBR will not grow that much as we are really happy being a little group. But obviously STC is the more demanding competition for driver number, and we where in need of some reinforcements. But the drivers we sign are not a loan, but TBR drivers. And from the moment a new driver enter the team is TBR 100%.

    Anyway, it is hard to controll out of your team who is or who is not active in the other teams. This is why the STC Entry List was for, to have a Entry List at the beggining of the series, and try to keep it clossed.

    But we rae opened to new suggestions and ideas to keep it controled if you feel it is not working.
  5. basically a good idea, but other than snooping arounf teams' forums and websites I don's see how anyone could control/ police this. Golden rule: never make a rule that you cannot police.
  6. BFR is another small team that needs to add additional drivers to the team but we do it not just for STC but for growing the team since we have some drivers not being that active right now based on having got babys.
    And as BFR golden rule says - "real life first".
  7. I'm curious to know where the 'borrowing' issue stems from. Who is borrowing drivers? :)
  8. Bram

    Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    I think Ben means that people should be commited to a team and not only enter to run a championship like you can in other leagues.
    The thing that makes STC special compared to other leagues is that the original idea was to have solid races between teams.
    There were drivers on the GMT list that clearly have raced for another team for years. Wilfred van de Brink for instance races for Simracing for Holland, a famous dutch team and imo should enter the STC with that team if there is a chance so the overall competition gets stronger.

    I know it is very common in other leagues to "sign" a driver for just a race or league, but the absense of that in STC made/makes it special

    My 2 cents, but i think i understand where Ben is pointing at. Not a biggy though but it's good that we are discussing it.

    Second example we all know, so don't play stupid guys! We all know that blue flag racing borrows Eckhart von Glan from Huttu's Redline Racing :D

  9. Apart from Wilfred what other driver's are you talking about have drove for other teams for years :sarcastic:???
    All our driver's that have raced in STC race for us as a team and are not borrowed, they drive with us together with passion and are fully committed to the team and are GMT-DHR driver' and are not borrowed in anyway! I make sure all our driver's have the chance to race here and with the Junior team this was a good way to introduce some of our other driver's who can't get into the main team to STC because as always I try to get as much as the team as possible involved here and people saying stuff like this about our driver's will not go down well with them at all as we are passionate about this and driving for our own team!

    Signing driver's to a team is pretty normal and for a series like STC is pretty important due to the driver limits and this being a team game which requires more driver's then other series, just like TBR have done, they have signed two more driver's to help them here because they was a bit short last season and needed to strengthen, and other teams will do the same and for us If the team is short on a driver or two naturally I will go out and bring a driver in sign him to the team, then bond him with the rest of the team and get him involved and make sure they are full committed to the team and are racing as a GMT-DHR driver just like TBR do and other teams, as it's a important role of a team moving foward and growing and showing it's ambitions to do well.

    Personally I think it's quite sad that this issue has been brought up because of us mainly I think and for me just shows people are bitter of our success and driver list and need to focus on their own teams more instead of thinking of ours or others.
  10. Bram

    Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Sorry to see you take it as criticism Damian because that was not the intention of Ben i think.

    But if you feel offended by only discussing the issue, which is a valid point raised then the moderator can better lock the thread :(

    Imo racing teams are getting way too big nowadays. The STC is struggling to fill the field with teams and we saw solutions with junior teams last season that worked out temporarily. But can never be a structural solution for a solid league like STC is now.

    I rather race 15 teams of 5, 6 drivers then 6 teams with 15 drivers. Imo it has nothing to do anymore with team spirit but only with the team that allows the most recruits in.

    Our team has reached almost our maximum size of 20 drivers (spread over multiple games). The past has shown us that the real teamspirit with friendly relations dies when a team gets the size of a small community. But ofcourse every team should be able to do as they like, no problem.

    I think i can speak for the team (when kev and ross allow me lol) that we entered for the fun of racing with teams we know for a longer period of time now and although we won the first season, winning is not what our motivation is. Hence that also non-aliens have been driving this year on our side.

    This line is exactly what i meant to say: completely kills the discussion. Like the discussion about the junior teams was killed in the same way.

    Let's not end up like Formula 1 where reputation and money decides who is gonna be the champion. I am personally more in favor of a draft system like in the NBA.

    New interested drivers apply at the STC organization and the lowest rated teams of last season have the first pick if they want.
  11. It's not just me who feels offended, we are discussing this and as a team we feel the same, it's fine to discuss it but when the issue has been raised because someone feels we are borrowing driver's ( because no other team has posted their driver lists really to suggest this was made about any other teams apart from us ) then it becomes more of an issue as no driver's have ever been borrowed in any STC race or season and no driver's would be borrowed either, it's the driver's decision to race here not the other teams. There is a few driver's in STC who race for other teams in other series that are not borrowed, it's just that the team they run for in STC don't run in other series where they drive, but for us that's not the case, I think we only have two driver(s) who races for another team in another series who races in STC.

    Well, there is different goals for different teams, some of us teams aim to be one of the most active and exposed sim teams in the world and have ambitions to be one of the best teams in simracing overall by competing in all the best series in simracing, and that's where we are at / going. You would think looking at our driver list we have enough driver's, but in fact in some series we still need to expand in some area's.

    Well, that's kind of like you saying our team spirit is dieing because of the size of our team is like a small community but we have a very strong real team spirit even with the amount of driver's we have, it's not really about the size it's more about the togetherness and making sure the team spirit is always high and the team has good communication. We will continue to expand but the team spirit and very positive atmosphere we have won't go down at all, it will always be very strong and the same whether it's with 6 driver's or with 40.

    Anyway bit off-topic but I felt it was important to defend our team spirit and positive atmosphere and to protect the team image.

  12. Bram

    Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Seriously now you are doing it again. You are defending yourself but nowhere am i attacking you or your team, lol.. Typical

    You are selectively quoting now and forgot the part that was really in my post:
    I am out of this discussion now, starting to feel unpleasant, and that was not why I added my 2 cents to upset you or your team. On the contrary was hoping for a good discussion with a good conclusion but again thats not possible unfortunately.
  13. James Johnson

    James Johnson
    The Weatherman

    Guys cant this Be Locked and Restarted at End of Next Series where we have alot more time to discuss. Like the Junior Teams Etc.
  14. Yeah, it's getting really insulting in here :D
  15. Based on Bram's clarification, I would have to agree. Not with respect to any particular team but just in general: I would rather see Ghostspeef, Twister, Torrent et al turn up and run as themselves than see their drivers supplement someone elses roster.

    So, if that is what you meant Ben, I agree.

    My 2 pence.
  16. OK, I will not close the thread, as James suggested, because I think it can go somewhere and it can help the series somehow.

    First of all, next tiome any of you decide to open a thread like this one, it is ok, of course, but please, say exactly what you mean and who are you talking about, because if you don´t fo that it is like throwing the rock and hiding the hand.

    Ben, I really would like to know it. :tongue:

    Next. STC will have stay with this format (...talking about Team number...), we don´t want to grow as a comunity, we will not have other divisions, no more spots will be available (...maybe some less...), so our plans at the moment are to keep it as it is now, working fine.

    I agree with all of you in some points, Bram you are right when you say a team have to be a little group to keep a friendly enviroment and the charm of STC is Teams vs Teams with his real drivers. But we have also to consider that a team that have joined other competitions and not only STC will need more drivers to be able of competing in all that series, so signing more or less drivers is up to the team, but specially it is up to the drivers joining the Team.

    In our case, at TBR we have signed four new drivers now, because we had not enough active drivers to compete at STC.

    This is why we try to have under control the Team Entry lists for the series, but it is not possible to keep it controlled 100%. A team with less drivers will have problems to complete a Entry list for a race, and a Team with more drivers will have problems to let all his drivers participate.

    I find the thread constructive, and at the end that would be great to find a way to control it a bit more.

    Maybe a good idea would be that a team with less than 10 drivers in the entry list keep the limit per driver in 6 races, and a team with more than 10 drivers have a limit of 4 races per driver. Only an idea.

    What you say?

    ** Please, try to make something constructive...
    or the thread will be closed. :laugh2:
  17. Yes, and that's why we have put him as a commentator:embarrassed:
  18. Bram

    Administrator Staff Member Premium Member

    Exactly, I wasn't debating that part of STC, on the contrary. This format already proved to be very valuable for STC and every team should be able to decide that for themselfs.

    I don't know exactly how to put it in words today i guess :male-fighter2:

    Splendid idea. When i look on the interest in our team the majority of the drivers wants to enter, but the spaces are limited. For us that will result in a less strong force entering the competition (1 race per member i think). Best performance is reached with a smaller team where every driver can drive more then one race (more practice, more experience).

    At any rate, I hope those freezes in the game get solved so i can fire up my car this season at least once :D
  19. Are there drivers in STC who are listed as members/drivers in other well established simracing teams (beside their STC team) and regulary driving under their name in different leagues ?.
    To me person is "gun for hire" if a he is a old active member of team A and then joins STC team B but still drives most of his races under the name of the team A.

    I dont see anything wrong teams having new members but I would like them to be fully committed to their new team.

  20. Ross Balfour

    Ross Balfour
    #99 | Roaring Pipes Maniacs

    Bram you spoke without my permission, your grounded :)

    But seriously I agree on most things that are being said here but disagree with other things, but I do not agree with this series been taken as its bliddy Formula One. Its a fun racing series where teams can race other teams in a friendly environment. Evryone is talking about wanting other teams to join but not many teams would want to join after reading this thread.

    I think some of us are turning away from the frinedly side of things and focusing on winning and winning only. I am in RPM and yes we are a very successful team with some unbelievably fast drivers but thats not why I joined or even why RPM asked me to join. If RPM took this seriously I would be on their "Avoid at all costs" list :)

    Yes I do agree with Ben's statement and I think it is a good point but I dont see why his point should turn into a mass debate, maybe it is just me that is seeing it this way and others are just seeing it as Friendly rivalry or whatever, but the #1 Factor in this STC is having fun, there are no prizes for winning etc. Some teams can take this extremely seriously like GMT-DHR I have no problem in that, just as long as if they get beaten or something bad happens they can see the funny side or say "Ah well better luck next time"

    And Damian I think GMT-DHR are one of the best sim-racing teams in the world, well certainly the best in GTR EVO.

    Again my 2cents :)
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