Tarmac in RBR

[Rick Bamford]

I keep hearing that people think the Tarmac in RBR is unrealistic and I am wondering why. Do i understand that people feel the TArmac doesn't have enough grip and you slid too much? Is that right or am i misunderstanding what everyone has a problem with?

I find it more realistic than the gravel to be honest (the gravel has too much grip) where the Tarmac is about what I have found in real life rallying.

Just curious.

 

[DeepJKL_FIN]

I like them both. On Tarmac there isn't so much differences between the grip, depending of the type of tarmac. On gravel there is many different variations, depending of the type of gravel. I had a problem when figuring out the grip on Valkeri when i made it... then i saw the next vid and noticed that there is actually a lot of grip on that road:

I was talking to a guy how has driven that stage with a N-group Subaru Impreza Sti and he told me that driving on ice is about -15% more slipery then valkola in summer time with gravel tires.

Now i am doing also a winter track based on that information.

So i am not complaining about the tarmac grip... i am just building new pedals for the G25 wheel and analogue handbrake to get the tarmac/gravel/ice attack more precise...

EDIT: And also the cars have setup options... need to use those in RBR to get the feeling/handling to suit Your needs/driving style. Makes a difference on all surfaces.

 

[Warren Dawes]

I keep hearing that people think the Tarmac in RBR is unrealistic and I am wondering why. Do i understand that people feel the TArmac doesn't have enough grip and you slid too much?

My view is the opposite. To me, the grip level on Tarmac seems too good and the speeds / times achieved seem too good. The cornering speeds in some cars eg. WRC cars seems way too good to me. The steering response seems far too instantaneous to me. It starts to feel quite arcadey until you get to the very limit, then the car either rolls by itself due to so much lateral grip, or (especially in the wet) it decides to let go without much indication at at all. Also, it gets ridiculously bouncy when you get on to bumpy Stages like some of the England tarmac mods of normally gravel stages.
I find the default Tarmac Stages of France ok, because they are smoother and have different challenges such as tight hairpins and narrow roads, and some smoother Tarmac mods work ok.

Maybe it has a lot to with getting the car setups right, some cars are better than others.

I think the inclusion of Tarmac Stages is a good thing though, for added variety, but the overall driving realism on Tarmac in RBR doesn't seem as accurate as the other surfaces.

 

[Dariusz Swiderski]

I,m 100% with Warren on this issue, couldn't say it any better. Too much grip and when it goes it goes without warning ( feel ). Maybe i,m used to the different feel from race07 & rFactor, or maybe i need setup work. Whatever the case it feels unrealistic ( arcade..ish ) to me.

 

[Eddie Mann]

I think the grip levels on tarmac in RBR (normal/Mod) are also 'close' to what I'm familiar with in a real car.. 4WD Turbo 220-300hp, 225+/18 inch wheels, that sort of thing, the kind of grip levels i see in the video below remind me of the way you have to approach some of the tarmac stages in RBR, eg attack to break traction in the hairpins and balance TRQ & grip on exit, even the weight transfer cues in the video resemble some RBR replays. Haven't come across another simulation that can emulate what i see in that video.

Just my 2 cent's

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I think the cars feels better on the cz-plugin than on RSRBR when driving on asphalt. That might just be my imagination... But I feel a difference.

 

[Ondrej Kapal]

main problem is HANDBRAKE for me, which just doesnt work on tarmac in RBR

 

[Aaron DeMarre]

main problem is HANDBRAKE for me, which just doesnt work on tarmac in RBR

I have found that the handbrake works much better if you already have the car turning in before you hit it. If you hit it and then turn in the car won't rotate.

 

[Warren Dawes]

main problem is HANDBRAKE for me, which just doesnt work on tarmac in RBR

It certainly does work on tarmac in RBR.
Have you gone back and practiced the handbrake section of the Rally School lessons, they do help a lot?
The technique for handbrake turns on tarmac is different to gravel, you have to be a bit more aggressive on tarmac, give it a bit more of a yank, maybe hold it slightly longer (but not in the wet :wink: ). The entry speed is the most critical part to judge.
As Aaron has said, settle the entry speed (depending on the car and weather), turn in slightly, yank the handbrake, but keep pouring on the power to drive the car through the turn and exit.

 

[Ryan Callan]

I would say the 'break away' and response on tarmac is certainly unrealistic. Grip levels... hmmm, not so far off IMO.

 

[Łukasz Demolin]

Agreed with you, Ryo. If plenty of drivers say that grip level itself is OK this might be true. But the snappy nature of the physics is just too hard to master for me. Maybe if I finally start to "get" setting up a car in RBR this might improve (right now small annoyances, like toe-in with opposite sign than in any other sim kinda annoy me).

In general I found the tarmac GB to be astonishingly tricky. The bumps were simply killer and most of the time I was afraid to touch the gras or even go fast over the crest, scared of what might happen. On the other hand yanking the handbrake on RSI and sliding around felt perfectly fine. But I cling on real drivers' as well as Eero's words that deem tarmac to be at least "unpolished".

 

[Ondrej Kapal]

RSI is well done made... with my S2000 Škoda it is the only SS where I can fully use handbrake (note: with manual clutch because of atmospheric engine to keep RPMs high)... but when it comes to another stages, states... If you watch on youtube a lot of tarmac onboards, to the car it just needs quick short e-brake use... with this way I am not able to do 180° turn (France for example) and thats 4WD. I need to use it more, but it ends in oversteer or it stops the car and with higher speed i am too wide... overall the handbrake doesnt feel real for any car except WRCs (for which it is modeled as default content - yes Warren, I have done school for x times ) for me

 

[stenyak]

I've already mentioned in other threads/forums: Eero Piitulainen (lead/physics developer of RBR) himself has said that he had to do the tarmac tire model in a rush, and that he was not happy with the tarmac physics that had to be bundled with the finished game (regarding the loose surface tire model, however, he was pretty happy enough with them).

I haven't been able to locate the interview on google, not sure if it was on ASS or in the now defunct BHMS.

He mentioned, IIRC, that the forces generated with lateral slip were not very good, and I think he also mentioned on some occasion the bad forces generated with high camber angles (I think we can all agree that tarmac vehicles in RBR, if not setup delicately, can easily roll to a side when a bump has lifted a side of the vehicle, for example).

In a straight line, however, the physics should be pretty good from what I recall.


That Subaru youtube is the vid which shows a most close behaviour to what RBR models. However, in that vid, the sub is able to drift out of a corner, however in RBR you usually lose most of the speed and cannot sustain such a drift unless in very tight corners.

 

[Glenn Pettersen]

main problem is HANDBRAKE for me, which just doesnt work on tarmac in RBR

Yes, i even bought a manual Handbrake stick so its not just all on or all off, RBR seems perfect on gravel and handbrake is giving me the respons that i feel is correct. But on Tarmac its like having a button again, it make the car spin like crazy even the sligthest touch, i drive the first Lap in france (Vanilla version) and its driving me nuts that a slight touch on the handbrak spin me around back the way i came from, it feels waaay to aggressive here, and the grip in overal feels far to good as i can have crazy speeds through 3 turns, but what do i know im no Rally driver, but i think just becouse your not a good driver does not mean you cant feel when things feel off track and wrong, but if it actually they way it supose to be i could not say ofc.

 

[maciejk]

do I understand this correctly? on tarmac it would be harder to turn your wheel than on gravel? and easiest on snow surfaces? the thing is i'm using G27 FFB settings direction:INVERSED there's an amazing advantage to it, when you turn your wheel quickly from one end to the other u don't get a "dead wheel power cutoff " feel because the wheel is harder to turn.
Should it be harder to turn the wheel on tarmac than it is on gravel, and lightest to turn on snow?