PC1 Strange steering FFB effect in latest builds

[Sk3ptik0n]

I like very much the way FFB has been done in pCARS in the latest builds. I think it's getting closer to what it should be and it feels much more lively.

However, a strange side effect has been creeping up and I'd like to know if it something with my gear or others have noticed.

To start, I ahve a G25 with separate pedals (also G25).
Now the effect I feel is similar to what you get in rFactor or GTR2 when you have the FFB inverted. In otehr words, the steering feels very good up ntil a certain degree of rotation and then it feels like past a certain point (which change depending on turn, car, speed, etc.) the steering wheel seems like it "falling" toward the turn.

So I am steering and I feel the wheel nicely counteracting my force, but then after I get past that point, the resistance disappears and actually feels as if the FFB inverts and it pulls my hands toward the inside of the turn.

I hope I described it well enough.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Peter]

Maybe
When I break the ffb dissapears and when the frontwheels loos grip the wheel slams and knocks to one side.
It's almost imposible to get clean lap together, that's why I didn't try MP.

 

[KAMPFBIBER81]

Did you see that all FFB effects except what's coming from the tyres have been disabled since monday?

Have you set everything correctly in Logitech Profiler? Did you calibrate everything correctly?

 

[Rhys Gardiner]

I always thought that that effect was the game communicating that the tyres had exceeded their max slip angle...?

 

[Nathan Robinson]

From what i understand they only dropped ffb effects in the seta version. Im beginning to wonder if its an issue with logitech stuff because i find it very easy to do consistent clean laps and have no problems running side by side around the track. Im hooked on the a4 with the seta model and find it very believable, and its still early in its development. Anyone who doesnt use seta is just cheating themselves out of a good time

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

Have you checked this thread?

http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?6198-The-FFB-parameter-tweaking-thread

 

[Sk3ptik0n]

To be fair, I calibrated my wheel in game and I have a set pCARS profile in my Logitech CP. I am also not running the new tire model (At least I didn;t last night)

I think I noticed this effect for the first time a couple of builds ago.
It is different from the FFB resistance going away when losing trsction, like it happens on Simbin and otehr sims.

In this case it seems to activaly pull the wheel toward the turn diredction.

if you go to rFactor or GTR2 and reverse the direction of the FFB you'll feel the same thing except that in those games it is far stronger (depending on how much force you dial into the FFB).

I don;t want to make this sound worse than it is. The car is drivable and once you know what's going to happen is not to difficult to counteract it, but I cannot help wonder if maybe this FFB is set opposite what it should be for some wheels, like my G25.

rFactor must have a reason for allowing a reversal of FFB so maybe that's what they need.

by the way, I am not going to post this in the pCARS forum. They don;t seem too keen on any kind of criticism these days.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

Try my FFBTweakers, they are based on the latest info and I think the FFB really feels awesome. In particular, try Asano X4 and the BMW Z4.

Backup your files and copy these to [User's Documents]\CARS\FFB\

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx0wm83nzwccbna/FFB.rar

Also, have FFB setting to 100%, that's how I like it, maybe you need to lower it a bit for you.

 

[Sk3ptik0n]

Thank you for the download. They just came out with a new built today so I will test that first and then I'll try this FFB.

One thing that got me corious, what do I ahve to do to start pCARS loading the new tire model? Why does it seem to be such a secret? You'd think it would be mentioned pretty much everywhere.

I know I have to add something to the EXE but beyond that I don't know. I'll keep reading the forum and see if anyone mentions the instructions.

 

[Sk3ptik0n]

WOW. I have not loaded the FFB files yet, but I was able to compare the new built with and without the NTM.

By the way, to activate the NTM is easy. I did it this way but there are probably otehr methods:

I created a shortcut of pCARS.exe
I r-clicked the shortcut and selected "properties"
Choose the tab "shortcut" in the properties window
Inside "target" add -seta after the exe. It should read like this at the end:

(Your drive/yourfolder)\pCARS\pCARS.exe -seta

Save close and use the shortcut to launch pCARS. The NTM will load.

And does it ever. I drove the Asano (audi) and the new track that is basically Infineon sonoma. Without the NTM the FFB was really good but also showed the very same issue that prompted me to start this topic. Almost every turn it was like someone was trying to push the steering wheel for me toward the turn direction. At first, there is a net loss of resistance. It's how it starts, but as you pass that point, the wheel actively turns to the inside of the turn. It's almost as if there was a cam of some sort where you get to the cusp of the curve and then you fall to the other side.

Anyway, it was still a lot of fun but after awhile I decided to try the new Tire model.

I restarted pCARS and went to the same track with the same car.

What a difference. The FFB was even more precise and a bit stronger than before.
The "FFB Inversion" I have been complaining about is completely missing. No matter how much you turn the wheel resistance is gradual and consistent. It never reaches the "fall off" point I dislike so much.

The biggest problem I found with it is that it seems to make the steering a lot tighter. Suddenly turning just a few degrees and it's like you are turning for a hairpin. Way to sensitive for my tastes. I will try to increase the steering ratio (12 when I tested). It reminds me of the way the Ford GT drives on iRacing, where its steering ratio is way too tight and drivers have been fooling the calibration software since the car came out because 10 degrees on the Ford GT is like turning any other car 45 degrees or more, making it impossible to catch a slide without snap oversteer.

in pCARS however, it's still very easy to catch the car even if it oversteers. The biggest problem I noticed was that riding the kerbs was a lot harder and the car tended to ride up the kerbs a lot more. Again, I'll try to increase the steering ratio in game and see what happens.

Anyway, if this is the early version of this NTM, I think it's very promising.

 

[Sk3ptik0n]

WOW,WOW,WOW again!

I just tested the NTM + the FFB file stefan posted and my goodness, it is amazing.

Aside from a few rough edges, due to the NTM no doubt, this is one of the best sim experiences I have ever had. The FFB is very lively, very precise. Very reactive and no trace of the problem I started this thread for.

The only issue I am still having is the steering being too tight. I increased the steering ratio to 14 in game for the Asano, and it made things better, but still it's way too much. I aim for the racing line and if I don;t correct I find myself heading ffor the curb on the inside and then for the grass. If I actually aim to ride the curb, I am liable to put the whole car on the inside of the turn.

Also, the car itslf seem to me way too grippy. It's like it's on rails.

Yes, it will lose the back (and it's easily caught), but still it just feels like you really have to exceed and blow the turn big time to lose traction.

Basically, the edge is really way too high. I even went to see if by mistake I had turned on drive aids, but I didn't.

Anyway, NTM or not, use this FFB set. it's awesome.

is there a place where we can download the updates from? Could you take care to post it here at RD if it gets updated stefan?

EDIT: Another thing I wanted to bring up: what's up with the AI? They are actually getting worse as the game progresses. At least a few weeks ago I was able to get a race going most of the time. Yes, a couple of them would drove off course or crash into each other, but if I did 3 or 4 restarts eventually I would be able to get a decent race in.

Now, they just crash all over or one of them will speed up, then go slow and the rest just line up behind him. They are frankly silly. Good thing multiplayer is open now because the AI so far is terrible.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

WOW,WOW,WOW again!

I just tested the NTM + the FFB file stefan posted and my goodness, it is amazing.

Aside from a few rough edges, due to the NTM no doubt, this is one of the best sim experiences I have ever had. The FFB is very lively, very precise. Very reactive and no trace of the problem I started this thread for.

I know hey, FFB has so much improved now and it's really fun.

is there a place where we can download the updates from? Could you take care to post it here at RD if it gets updated stefan?

No, like I said above there is a thread about it and one has to change the xml files manually. The zip file I attached is a compilation of some of the latest xml file changes which improve FFB

EDIT: Another thing I wanted to bring up: what's up with the AI? They are actually getting worse as the game progresses. At least a few weeks ago I was able to get a race going most of the time. Yes, a couple of them would drove off course or crash into each other, but if I did 3 or 4 restarts eventually I would be able to get a decent race in.

Now, they just crash all over or one of them will speed up, then go slow and the rest just line up behind him. They are frankly silly. Good thing multiplayer is open now because the AI so far is terrible.

Yes, AI is crap, but they are working hard on it as it was mentioned in the forum so at some stage it should be OK.

MP is really fun apart from the first lap crashes and close racing is still a pain. Waiting for SMS to fix this and I think it will be great soon.

 

[KAMPFBIBER81]

Corrado, you can also launch pcarslauncher.exe with -seta or -dx11 command. It's the same as launching pcars.exe with -seta or -dx11.

 

[Marco80]

Just had a go all last night, new tyre model is a big improvement more for ffb though, ffb is better, actuall driving physics are still junk though, but at least now the game us drivable.

 

[Kazumi]

Just had a go all last night, new tyre model is a big improvement more for ffb though, ffb is better, actuall driving physics are still junk though, but at least now the game us drivable.

Which versions have you tried? According to some pCars members they "enjoyed" a varying quality in FFB and everything else from the early builds to the later ones.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

actuall driving physics are still junk though, but at least now the game us drivable.

Have you updated the FFB xml files? Did you try a variety of cars? Some cars feel better than other.

 

[André Azevedo]

WOW. I have not loaded the FFB files yet, but I was able to compare the new built with and without the NTM.

By the way, to activate the NTM is easy. I did it this way but there are probably otehr methods:

I created a shortcut of pCARS.exe
I r-clicked the shortcut and selected "properties"
Choose the tab "shortcut" in the properties window
Inside "target" add -seta after the exe. It should read like this at the end:

(Your drive/yourfolder)\pCARS\pCARS.exe -seta

Save close and use the shortcut to launch pCARS. The NTM will load.

And does it ever. I drove the Asano (audi) and the new track that is basically Infineon sonoma. Without the NTM the FFB was really good but also showed the very same issue that prompted me to start this topic. Almost every turn it was like someone was trying to push the steering wheel for me toward the turn direction. At first, there is a net loss of resistance. It's how it starts, but as you pass that point, the wheel actively turns to the inside of the turn. It's almost as if there was a cam of some sort where you get to the cusp of the curve and then you fall to the other side.

Anyway, it was still a lot of fun but after awhile I decided to try the new Tire model.

I restarted pCARS and went to the same track with the same car.

What a difference. The FFB was even more precise and a bit stronger than before.
The "FFB Inversion" I have been complaining about is completely missing. No matter how much you turn the wheel resistance is gradual and consistent. It never reaches the "fall off" point I dislike so much.

The biggest problem I found with it is that it seems to make the steering a lot tighter. Suddenly turning just a few degrees and it's like you are turning for a hairpin. Way to sensitive for my tastes. I will try to increase the steering ratio (12 when I tested). It reminds me of the way the Ford GT drives on iRacing, where its steering ratio is way too tight and drivers have been fooling the calibration software since the car came out because 10 degrees on the Ford GT is like turning any other car 45 degrees or more, making it impossible to catch a slide without snap oversteer.

in pCARS however, it's still very easy to catch the car even if it oversteers. The biggest problem I noticed was that riding the kerbs was a lot harder and the car tended to ride up the kerbs a lot more. Again, I'll try to increase the steering ratio in game and see what happens.

Anyway, if this is the early version of this NTM, I think it's very promising.

Two questions:

The NTM was not automatically installed by patch?...

Those files posted by Stefan, that's wmd work or fans work?...

That's what i like in iRacing, everybody has the same and the system update process is so simple.

 

[KAMPFBIBER81]

Everyone that does updates to pCARS has the same version.

In the code, the old and the new tyre models are integrated. If you want to run pCars with STM, use the -seta switch.

I have no idea what files or which Stefan, so I leave that answers to others.

 

[André Azevedo]

Ok, so... I can do a multiplayer for example running with one tyre model and you with other? That's what i can't understand, how can TT times for example be fair if we can run the game with two possible tyre models?

Sorry to be so persistent but pc simracing is quite new to me, there are many things i still need to understand.

 

[gh69]

Ok, so... I can do a multiplayer for example running with one tyre model and you with other? That's what i can't understand, how can TT times for example be fair if we can run the game with two possible tyre models?

Sorry to be so persistent but pc simracing is quite new to me, there are many things i still need to understand.

Beacuse it's all in development, the development process takes priority.
The leaderboards were introduced as a bit of fun, not to be taken too seriously, but provide a bit of competition whilst testing. They have also helped highlight various bugs.

Now that there are 2 tyre models in use, yes the TT leaderboards do become somewhat inaccurate (or 'unfair'), but development sometimes takes presidence over fun.

They are frequently reset anyway, and will be many more times before tyre models etc are finalised.