Stewards and Drivers vs Lewis

[Scott Webber]

There have been alot of debates with Lewis Hamilton involved on these forums, racing enthusiast who have been watching F1 for many years following every single race have also commented and given their input on things, so it's only right i post this Article and hopefully i can hear some thoughts on this.

do you agree?

To the casual observer, Lewis Hamilton is harshly treated by the stewards. Several anoraks share this view and you can argue with good reason.

In 2008 people began to establish this view point after the manner in which Lewis was harshly penalised at the Belgian Grand Prix. Later in that season he was punished in Japan after being one of many drivers to lock up and run wide at turn 1. After being disqualified in Australia 2009, the penalties dried up.

The issue of the stewards taking a dislike to Lewis reared its head again in Malaysia 2011. Both Lewis and Alonso were called up to the stewards post-race after Alonso hit Hamilton. Ferrari raised the point that Lewis had moved twice to defend his position prior to the collision. It ended with the pair of them being given time penalties.

At Monaco it boiled over. On lap 32, he made an opportunistic move on Massa into the hairpin. Inevitably they touched. Later on the lap, Lewis made a bold move in the tunnel. Massa went wide and crashed out. The only person he had to blame was himself.

This is what Jacques Villeneuve made of the move in F1 Racing magazine: "His move on Massa at the hairpin was fine. As a driver you have to realise when you've lost a battle, but that didn't occur to Massa. Lewis was on the inside and what did Felipe do? Turn in more to try and block him".

I have to say, the more I see it the more I think Massa turned in early. Especially when you see where he turned in compared to Webber infront [Video].

Massa's comments after the race were wrong. He said: "What Lewis did was wrong, not just to me but to other drivers." He made one ill judged move on Maldonado and was at least 50/50 in favour against Massa.

Hamilton did overstep the mark in his post-race interview. "Its a joke, an absolute frikkin joke. He turned in early, I got the penalty, in qualifying, he blocked me, I got the penalty. These drivers are absolutely frikkin ridiculous". When asked why he was often penalised he replied with "Maybe it's cos I'm black."

If Monaco had been bad, Canada wouldn't get any better. He tangled with Webber at the restart and then, trying to overtake his teammate, he was squeezed into the wall, ending his race. The stewards took no further action and thanks to the red flag break, avoided any fallout with Button.

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[Xosé Estrada]

Lewis is the driver that broke more rules in a row since I watch F1 (20 years now) and got ridiculous or inexistent penalties for it.

I remember many of them like when he overtook the SC in Valencia (he gained P2 at the moment) and FIA waited for 17 laps to penalize him with a Drive Through, just when his gap was enough to make him keep position, or when a crane put him back on track on Germany 2007 (this was amazing), but I have a list with around 20 situations where other drivers got a penalty and Lewis did not...

Then there are a lot rules the FIA ignored when he broke them, but encouraged them after saying "next driver doing what LH did will get...", if it's in the rules do it now. This happened this summer, they setup the rule of a driver receiving 3 warnings will get a penalty. They surprisingly reset the warnings counter to zero this summer... guess who was the only driver that had 2 warnings

Hamilton is a risk-taker and a very agressive driver, which is good for the show and made me like him, but it makes him also very controversial because he's always on the limit of legal and doesn't seem to have fear to put his foot on the other side if needed.

In UK is the golden boy and of course according to the media he should be allowed to do everything, but this "stewards vs lewis" is not an international speech were the opinion is, let's say, more divided . I read often the British press regarding F1 (because is thousand times better than the Spanish one on this matter) and in general they are totally biased towards Hamilton except few well known names, but I understand the causal F1 viewers receive the general message of "poor Lewis the stupid Frenchman from FIA hate him because he's black".

Conclusion, Lewis was favored a lot by stewards in the past and now that he's starting to be treated like the others he's surprised, so his fans are.

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

I got into F1 in the 2007 season when Lewis first joined the field but being a spaniard I support Alonso so my first year into the sport I really really disliked him. Over the years I've matured a bit in my opinion of him but I dont think he has much. In 07 he was untouched by the stewards and he still had his fair share if incidents and still managed to lose the title. Since 07 i dont think he's been able to match that consistency and just seems to be getting more and more short aggressive on track, not in the good way. The kid is a talent for damn sure he has a gift but he hasnt lived up to his hype. Love or hate his "aggressive" driving style most of the aggression is not really warented. He's been to visit the stewards more than anyone else because he's been involved in more incidents than anyone else. I thought some of Button would wear off on him and maybe guide him to picking his passes wisely instead of throwing his car into unrealistic passing situations. Some of them work and he's praised but most of them end up in contact. With a little more patience he could be right back in the top 3.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Rules and decisions are sometimes arbitrary (in any sport) however I don't think the stewards are more harsh on Lewis compared to others. On the contrary I'd say.

 

[Gary Corby]

...To the casual observer, Lewis Hamilton is harshly treated by the stewards...

It's the other way round, IMHO. Casual viewers almost invariably see Hamilton as at fault. I've shown replays of several of the controversial hits to non-F1 watchers, and invariably the non-F1 person says something like, "But he [Hamilton] ran into the other guy. How could it not be his fault?" To find reasons to exonerate Hamilton requires knowledge of the rules on racing lines and the conventions of passing. When you apply those, he doesn't look quite as bad. The stewards I suspect are applying the rules as they think the billion or so casual TV viewers would expect them to be applied.

UK fans are almost uniformly pro-Hamilton, which is very reasonable since he's a Brit, just as I, for example, am pro-Webber. If the British views are excluded as conflict of interest, I suspect the remaining general evaluation of his driving is ambivalent at best, more likely somewhat negative. He really typifies in my mind the difference between being fast and being a good driver. I find it very sad for Jenson Button, who gets nothing like the same kudos from his countrymen; Button's not as fast, but he's a very good driver.

 

[Diego Lopez]

It's the other way round, IMHO. Casual viewers almost invariably see Hamilton as at fault. I've shown replays of several of the controversial hits to non-F1 watchers, and invariably the non-F1 person says something like, "But he [Hamilton] ran into the other guy. How could it not be his fault?" To find reasons to exonerate Hamilton requires knowledge of the rules on racing lines and the conventions of passing. When you apply those, he doesn't look quite as bad. The stewards I suspect are applying the rules as they think the billion or so casual TV viewers would expect them to be applied.

UK fans are almost uniformly pro-Hamilton, which is very reasonable since he's a Brit, just as I, for example, am pro-Webber. If the British views are excluded as conflict of interest, I suspect the remaining general evaluation of his driving is ambivalent at best, more likely somewhat negative. He really typifies in my mind the difference between being fast and being a good driver. I find it very sad for Jenson Button, who gets nothing like the same kudos from his countrymen; Button's not as fast, but he's a very good driver.

agreed. each country is gonna defend its country man and try really hard and block other comments that contradict theirs. Then again this falls for almost every sport especially soccer and F1.

 

[Chris Butcher]

I for one can't stand him. Although he is better than he was (attitude wise) his big-headed and arrogant approach in 2007-2008 tainted him forever for me. I think sometimes he has had a few rough calls but largely they have been fair - but isn't that the same for most drivers?

I'm a Schumacher fan through and through, always have been, but my favourite team is still Ferrari.

 

[Scott Webber]

just to let you know im a Mclaren fan, but my favourite Driver is none of the Mclaren's , Ferrari's or the red bulls. im a schumacher fan and a paul di resta fan, although i am starting to like JB even more and more now, he has the brains and the car to do great.

 

[Marcus Maat]

also a schumacher fan. but i feel that alonso is a very talented driver, and it is hard to not like JB, the lads got style. each race though i go for webby. i have not given up hope that he can still take a wdc. maybe next year lol..

 

[Adam Eggbeer]

He has been given harsh penalties, but he has also received leniency in other decisions. All in all, he isn't treated differently to most other drivers.

 

[Chris Jenkins]

I think he's deserved a lot of what's been handed his way this season, but I also think he's been a victim of inconsistency with the stewards.

If Hamilton was to blame for the collision with Maldonaldo in Monaco (which I agree that he was) then why was Kobayashi not penalised in Spa a couple of weeks ago?

Another example (which didn't result in any penalties), if Hamilton was to blame for not looking in his mirrors in Spa, why was Button not to blame in Canada?

People are very quick to jump on the blame bandwaggon because Hamilton has been seen as a 'golden boy' in the past.
But I think you have to be consistent with your views. Not just throw the blame on Hamilton if you dislike him (regardless of fault), or wave him of any blame if you're a Hamilton fanboy.

It seems like a 'all-for' or 'all-against' with Hamilton. There doesn't seem to be a lot of fair thinking going on when it comes to people's opinions.

 

[ufunacaoenn]

Writting from iPhone so bare with me, please.

First of all Chris, in Canada there was rain and there for Button couldn't see from his mirrors.

Anyhow I just read this from the MadeInMotosport app And thought of sharing it.

9 sep 2011

08:14:00
F1 - 'Aggressive' Hamilton knocked unconscious in Spa crash
Sep.9 (GMM) Lewis Hamilton thinks he was knocked unconscious after crashing out of the recent Belgian grand prix.Cockpit replays of the incident, where the McLaren driver actually dented the Spa-Francorchamps barriers after clashing with Kamui Kobayashi, showed Hamilton completely motionless for 15 seconds in the wake of the impact.The 2008 world champion admits it is possible he was knocked out.''I don't really remember much from hitting the wall,'' the Daily Star newspaper quotes him as saying at Monza.''It's possible I was out for a couple of seconds, I'm not really sure.''The crash was the latest incident in a series for Hamilton this year, and he told the BBC 2011 might go down as the ''worst'' in his F1 career so far.''I have got to find my way, learn from any mistakes and try to smooth out the creases through these last seven races,'' he is quoted as saying by the Guardian.Hamilton, 26, said he has managed to avoid all the media speculation about his aggressive driving style since Spa.''I don't read them, but I hear there are pretty bad stories written about me, so I am thinking it will be good to give you guys something good to write about me,'' he told reporters ahead of the Italian grand prix.''I guess I'm an easy target at the moment because I'm always in trouble.''Some of his rivals defended Hamilton on Thursday, including Sauber's Kobayashi, who insisted F1 drivers ''need to be aggressive''.Agreed Mark Webber: ''He's not that aggressive, he's ok. He's just had a tough run in the last few races.''Hamilton's own McLaren teammate Jenson Button, however, admitted he doesn't always agree with his countryman's methods.''I personally feel it's better to talk to the team than talk though the media, but we are built differently,'' he said.
GMM / MadeInMotorSport.com

 

[Chris Jenkins]

Writting from iPhone so bare with me, please.

First of all Chris, in Canada there was rain and there for Button couldn't see from his mirrors.

Granted, but just because Jenson had spray in his mirrors doesn't make the incident Lewis's fault.
Yet it was only Lewis that was going to be investigated for the incident, had he stayed in the race.

With this being the case, surely Kobayashi should've been investigated at Spa?
I'm not trying to jump to Hamilton's defense as some people do, but I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in the Stewards' actions this season.

 

[Gaëtan Legastelois]

... why was Kobayashi not penalised in Spa a couple of weeks ago?
...

Maybe it's not Kobayashi's fault

See here : http://www.racedepartment.com/motor...r-lewis-hamilton-will-learn-his-mistakes.html

 

[David O'Reilly]

Personally i think Chris is making sense here.
If the incident was replayed and the "skins" were changed to say Senna and Buemis cars or say a couple of GT2 drivers taking away any pre judging or personalities then I'm afraid I come down firmly that it was not the leading drivers fault. The trailing driver who was on the outside and at best had his nose level with the lead cars rear wheels is responsible for avoiding contact.
The lead driver "had the corner", there was not significant overlap and the trailing car had no reasonable prospect of making a pass stick without contact.
You can't in my view make it the responsibility of the leading car to look in his mirrors and say "goodness someone has put their nose beside my rear wheels on my outside, I must avoid contact and thus give up the racing line for this corner". You entitled to drive th eracing line and are simply more responsible for your nose than your gearbox unless you are reversing!
In my view Martin Whitmarsh summarised it perfectly when arguing with Eddie Jordan.
It is also time that Niki Lauda was a bit more reflective and if he wants to be controversial all the time run a talent show or something. I'm afraid I take no notice iof this guy anymore.
Again of course this is just my view you don't have to agree.

 

[Chris Jenkins]

Maybe it's not Kobayashi's fault

See here : http://www.racedepartment.com/motor...r-lewis-hamilton-will-learn-his-mistakes.html

This whole thing confuses me.
Yes Hamilton has made more mistakes than the average driver this year. That is a fact.
But, I was shocked to hear him say he was accepting the blame at Spa.

I can't help but think that if you have people telling you all year long that incidents were your fault and you're making mistakes, that its less hassle to just say "yes OK, my fault again" than it is to stand up for yourself when you're legitimately not guilty.

 

[Adam Eggbeer]

The difference between the Lewis/Jenson and the Lewis/Kamui incidents (excluding track conditions) was that Jenson maintained the racing line and Lewis opted to move into an ever closing gap, whereas at Spa, Lewis made one move to the inside, off the racing line, to defend and then moved back to the outside after Kamui had already moved to the outside. Therefore, he made more than one move to defend his position which is against the rules.

 

[Chris Jenkins]

The difference between the Lewis/Jenson and the Lewis/Kamui incidents (excluding track conditions) was that Jenson maintained the racing line and Lewis opted to move into an ever closing gap, whereas at Spa, Lewis made one move to the inside, off the racing line, to defend and then moved back to the outside after Kamui had already moved to the outside. Therefore, he made more than one move to defend his position which is against the rules.

This isn't how I see the incident when I'm watching replays.

Hamilton was well past Kobayashi on the straight. To me it looks like as Hamilton was moving left to take the correct line for the right-hander, Kobayashi was late-braking into a closing gap on the left side of the circuit, hitting Hamilton's back wheel.

Moving with the racing line isn't making a second defensive move in my opinon. Especially when he was clearly infront before the corner.

 

[Craig Hume]

Chris, i got no idea what footage you looking at, cause i dont see it anywhere near the same as you. For 4 seconds Kobi was alongside Hamilton coming into the turn. If any thing, Hamilton braked later than Kobi and thus hit him with his back wheel.
Search this "Hamilton crashes into barriers #formula1 #spa " on the online place with the you and the tube (dont want to just link things on the forum) and you will get a better view of. The quality aint good, but it tells the whole story of what happneded alot better than most views i have seen.

 

[Gaëtan Legastelois]

@ Chris : See again the replay, but for me it's not a late breaking for Kobayashi.
I see Hamilton inside who go outside on Kobayashi. Sure, it's not voluntary to cut the way, Hamilton must suppose Kobayashi was not here, that's all, it's only a mistake but it's Hamilton's mistake (also Kobayashi have nothing to win to stay here but he can't go to grass for Hamilton) and remember That before hamilton have already change her track line. (duplicate with Craig )

Also, I do not think Hamilton recognizes an error that was not hers.