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Sounds a little meager (at least for SP) right now

Discussion in 'F1 2011 - The Game' started by Helmut Skrdla, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Helmut Skrdla

    Helmut Skrdla
    Premium Member

    I'll make no mystery of it: I'm deeply disappointed in Codemasters in the way they left critical bugs unfixed last year, bugs they introduced with their own patch even. So I'm critical of them and will not provide them the benefit of doubt.

    Despite that, I am halfway interested in F1 2011 because the rule changes (at least in real life) seem to make for much more exciting racing.

    But, from all I gather online right now, speaking about the SP game (don't care about MP):

    *No Telemetry again
    *Safety Car a *maybe* but two months pre-release it hasn't been confirmed, that does not sound good.
    *Spectator mode only for online races, again offline replays restricted to own car
    *Again no way to watch other cars during qualy and practice

    These are features that were missing in 2010, back then the excuse was that it was their first effort at an F1 title and didn't make it in time. Now we are hearing the same excuses.

    What we seem to be getting for 45EUR sounds rather meager:

    *Supposedly better handling (which wasn't so terrible bad in first one for me)
    *Supposedly better AI
    *Mechanical Failures
    *Current Liveries and Car models
    *DRS, KERS and of course Pirelli tyres.

    I refuse to count the supposedly fixed AI Tyre and Fuel sim and the new race engineer as "marketable improvements", these should have been fixed in 2010 already and certainly are not "new features" worth new money this year. In fact I'm appealed at the cheekiness of Codies to hype these fixes they couldn't be arsed to provide for 2010 paying customers as "new features".

    I simple can't see the major improvements that would be worth the 45EUR. Especially seeing that modders took care of the season update for 2011, only thing they can't do for free is KERS and DRS.

    I'm curious, for the people who are already preordering it - what is your incentive to trust Codemasters with your money, especially seeing how they never fixed the serious PC bugs from last year's patch 1.01? What are you seeing in this title that I ain't?
     
  2. A marked imrovement. People complain saying stuff like "oh its not good enough this and that aren't added" but people forget its only their SECOND game. Look for example at Studio Liverpool had the license from 1997 up to 2006, much improvement?? 2001 was the only okay one on the ps2, 02 all the way to 06 was effectively the same game with changed lineups, yet people never complained then half as much as people are complaining about this one.
    I was actually pleasantly surprised at just how good 2010 was. I was expecting an okay game but it turned out great, yes had a couple of bugs but no gamebreakers that you couldn't go around. I've owned every single F1 game since the old 95 game and 2010 is by far the best one. This is Codemasters second attempt and already it looks even better than the last one. Features that people want/expect such as the safety car or track marshalls cleaning debris are frankly ridiculous. Bottom line is, it's a game, it will NEVER simulate the real thing, what Codemasters have done and are still doing are getting as close as possible and they're doing it extremely well. Problem with people today is they expect everything and it's simply not possible, a lot of people say it's easy to add that feature but are they programmers? They don't know how difficult it is to implement such features and I'm surprised that Codemasters are taking the time to listen to some very unreasonable requests.
    Not only that, things shown so far are in BETA testing and will improve. It annoys me so much when people complain especially about extremely petty things like, "oh the helmet shapes are all the same..", "the front nose cone looks about half an inch off.." it's completely pathetic. Obviously people can have their opinions but the majority seriously need a reality check.
    It's your choice to buy the game, no one is forcing you, but there is no need at all to put down a hardworking company because you don't like a couple of niggly things from a BETA test.
    Sorry for the long essay. Over and out.
     
  3. Couldn't have said it better myself Wynterdust. Seriously...no one has a gun to anyone's head. Buy it if you think it is worth it and the reviews/user feedback sounds positive. If not, don't get it. I hate this childish sense of entitlement that everyone has and the audacity to be petty and downright abusive on the Codemasters forums over the most trivial things. There are thousands and thousands of games that have been waaaayyy more buggy than F1-2010 while also not being any good or fun (which F1-2010 certainly was despite some of the bugs) and their developers haven't had to put up with even a fraction of abuse that some of these entitled forum brats feel.

    If you feel that the game doesn't justify the cost, then don't buy it, it's really that simple. If you feel horribly wronged by CM over F1-2010 then vote with your wallet and don't buy F1-2011. But don't expect everyone else to follow your same logic because despite the bugs, hundreds of thousands of folks enjoyed the game and are greatly looking forward to 2011.
     
  4. My Name in Game is Treveready and I play on PC

    Personally, and this is my opinion. I have had those times where I feel let down by codemasters. The puncture bug, the single patch fix. Then after that, the force india issues and the suspension **** up. They all addded to the frustration. The Game also included many technical issues regarding harware.

    BUT past experiences of a formula one title on any media have no comparison to what we have already. F1GP (yup the first one) was class back in the day, and after modding, my serious fave of the lot. After Mr Crammond went into limbo and sony took over there was nothing left.

    Codemasters have given the team a bad time with F1 2010, the proof is in the fact the game is publicised by the individuals rather than the company as a whole. That is an obvious great risk within a contract somewhere that these individuals have taken and now they are reaping great benefits from.

    F12010 after massive practice was and still is great. Regardless, the awards and reviews and considerate gameplay shows this.

    People need to prepare themselves for what is about to be released because I think not only will it be a step above the past, but a great and classic game which will go down in the racing genre history that will not be matched for a year or two ;)

    In regards to the F1 2011 I think the SC is real (a simple PR stunt), I also think past cars are a probablilty and the amount of skill required to make a perfect lap at any track will be that comparable to a sim in regards to brake bias and KERS and DRS. (how many people know how to use the front wing properly at every track in 2010 ???)

    If the 2011 game is a complete flop (which I very much doubt), I can see myself playing 2010 for a long time to come even with the issues.
     
  5. i think helmuts is a little overly critical of this game and needs to basically open his eyes (very young eyes im guessing!!) the work that these guys have done is emense what we are seeing in f12011 is actually 2 years work. You dont realise what these guys go through to produce these games and what coding issues that would come up along the way...... safety car!!! just imagine trying to code that but thats my point!! codies will try and if they think they have got it right then it goes in, needs furthere devmnt then its in 2012 .. I for 1 can say happily this would have to sh.. all over forza 3 for playability factor, graphics sure but you simply cant beet the game for its attempts to fully emerse you into F1.. I play f12010 for 1hr per day and i dont feel normal unless i do. i expect that its only going to get better, and from what ive seen so far i cant wait to get my hands on this one, it will be LOCK DOWN
     
  6. ditto SEE ABOVE!!!!!!!!


     
  7. Helmut Skrdla

    Helmut Skrdla
    Premium Member

    All I see is "soft arguments" regarding the conditions for the developer team, how hard they are working (which in fact none of you here can know) or how much "time it takes to program a game" (which neither of you knows unless you are a game developer).

    Explain to me why other developers could fit a comparable amount of function like what is now in the second F1 game in a flawless first release for their title, and then add actual new features for release two?

    I paid 50 bucks for 2010 and got a game with so many bugs that some of them actually break gameplay with no available workaround (PC Version). You guys seem to be happy to pay twice for what pretty much is a patched last year's version with the new season. I guess it's your money to spend, but by supporting a publisher with so abysmal business ethics you are setting a very good precendence for others in the industry to dumb down their efforts.
     
  8. And you are completely out of touch with reality if you think other games have been "flawless" on first iteration. Please peruse through this:

    http://forums.eu.atari.com/showthread.php?t=15445

    Y
    ou will find a HUGE number of listed bugs for everyone's favourite game, GP4...and this is for the 4th iteration of a game over several years. No game is bug free and no game is "perfect" in everyone's eyes. F1-2010 was a great first attempt despite the bugs, especially considering the licensing constraints and the fact that they had a hard set deadline for the game due to the licensing. You have to open your eyes and accept the realities of how game development works, especially when it comes to working with license holders like FOM. They didn't have the luxury of spending 5+ years like GT5 on a game...and frankly, I'm glad because GT5 was quite a disappointment considering how long they worked on it.

    And I'll reiterate - If you don't like CM, and feel violated by them for F1-2010, then you have every right to not buy F1-2011. But please, stop with these posts trying to ridicule those who do plan on buying it and trying to portray your opinion as the right opinion for everyone.
     
  9. Helmut Skrdla

    Helmut Skrdla
    Premium Member

    Software Publishers will be happy to know they can have you pay for a buggy mess one year, and pay twice for the bug fixes next year, which then become "features".

    And you know, I have a very valid opinion I can bolster with arguments, you will not stop me from posting it.
     
  10. Oh, cry me a river. I was disappointed with some of the bugs in F1-2010 as well, but I haven't gone on a personal vendetta against CM as a result. Have you gone to the forums of Tiger Woods Golf or Fifa to express your outrage that all the new features in the latest version should just have been in the previous year, etc, etc.

    And I see that part of making arguments is ignoring all valid ones I made in the post I made above. I see how things work...Anyways, you are most certainly welcome to post your opinion, but you'd be better advised not to try and ram it down everyone's throats and going on with your smug statements about how anyone who doesn't see it your way is somehow doing a great disservice.
     
  11. Helmut Skrdla

    Helmut Skrdla
    Premium Member

    You didn't make a lot of valid arguments in the post I was "ignoring". Yes, most every game released has bugs. However, I have a hard time thinking up one where a publisher released patch BROKE features and then the same publisher refused to correct those broken features in a second patch.

    And to be clear, on the PC there were GAMEBREAKING bugs post Patch 1.01, which is simple unacceptable.

    And again you speak about "the realities how game development works" - are you a game developer? Do you know the available manpower, manhours spent, deadlines and licensing constraints? You don't either, you are just using this to make excuses.

    I would have accepted for them to release a broken first attemp if they focus the time NOT spend on patching that first product to generate a truly ground breaking second release. But they can't have it both ways - on one hand claiming that development work for 2011 stopped them from patching their mess, and then again claiming they didn't have enough time to implement features which were excused in 2010 as missing for lack of development time.
     
  12. @OP: You forgot the improvements that are going to bring 'Live the Life' ...ummm...to life in my opinion - improved interaction with the media, newspapers, much more going on with cinematics - and have you heard the audio? That's massively improved in my book. Also - Race Director - which sounds a bit like something that does the job of a pitboard and more. :)

    No game is bug free. Not even the venerable old GP series was bug free. I see a lot of people are moaning about the Spa crash video for F1 2011 because the car goes flying, for example - well, crashes of that nature were posted in a video about GP4's 'realistic' crashes! GP4's crash physics were way over the top.

    However - the OP has a point about the patch that broke more than it fixed - that and the fact CM refused to release another patch to sort out the mess was rather unacceptable.
     
  13. Helmut Skrdla

    Helmut Skrdla
    Premium Member

    Like I said, I don't expect 100% bug free. Stuff like AI Tyre sim and also to some degree Fuel sim did never bother me in 2010.

    But Bugs introduced in patch that destroy the gameplay (GFX Problems, FFB Problems, Savegameproblems) and then never get fixed, that is way below industry standard.

    I'm fairly sure GP4 or those other classics did not suffer from broken GFX and sudden bad performance after patching.

    As for "Live the Life" - it's cute in 2010, but it's not where I would have wanted them to spend time on. The only thing that was missing there were proper session and season statistics accessible anytime (for example the ability to look up your lap time in P2 while driving Q3, or the ability to look up race results for the past races including total time, fastest lap...). It does not seem this made it into the game this year.
     
  14. No, I am not making **** up. I have a good friend who is a game developer. I've also been very interested in the field of game development/3D animation and I am very aware of how things work in the industry. One of my friends in graduate school (he taught an animation class) was in charge of lighting and animation in the Lord of the Rings movies and several of the folks in the animation class I took have had game development experience.

    Can you please explain to me what exactly was GAMEBREAKING after the patch? Losing some graphics effects while obviously sucky is certainly not game breaking unless you are a very melodramatic person. The game was certainly very playable and enjoyable even after the patch. Look, I'm no CM fanboy and I was disappointed with their post release game support, especially for the PC release. HOWEVER, the game was still certainly functional and enjoyable. Yes, there were bugs, some worse than others, but it was still a fun game. Fine, if you bought into the hype and paid for it without waiting for community feedback, etc, then it sucks if you have exceptionally high standards, but then go ahead and boycott their products.

    There have been thousands of terrible games that are virtually unplayable with major bugs that have been released, bought by folks and have never been fixed. In comparison, CM didn't do anything as bad, yet some are screaming bloody murder. Rfactor, despite being a great sim, has absolutely terrible AI. Do you see me or others screaming away on the forums there about how this is GAMEBREAKING, etc, etc?

    Besides, what do you mean by they should focus on a GROUNDBREAKING second release? I certainly don't see Safety Car (which firstly hasn't even been confirmed as not in the game and has already been coded up/modeled but is being tweaked to see if ready for release) and Telemetry as some groundbreaking features that make or break the game.

    I find your argument that improvements on any pre-existing feature as not warranting consideration quite ridiculous. That logic would mean that EA should just stop making soccer games since every soccer game since the 90s has had the same basic premise and features. Just because they had wet weather racing, doesn't mean that a refined weather system, etc, is not something to consider as a new feature, or worthy of interest. So let's list all the things we know are in the game:

    * Improved weather with track evolution, grip, etc.
    * Improved Tyre modeling (all tyre compounds), visual tyre wear, ability to look after/heat up tyres, etc.
    * Day/night transitions
    * Completely re-designed physics with proper suspensions. Everyone who has played it has had only good things to say about the new handling model
    * KERS+DRS+Fuel mix options while racing
    * Improved strategy elements including a better race engineer, pit window predictions and Race director menu to better digest the progress of the race and your strategy
    * A whole host of improvements on the live the life side of things along with better/busier pits, etc.
    * Improved graphics/colors
    * Split screen racing, which even if you don't care about, is actually a neat new feature
    * Animated trackside Marshals
    * Vastly improved Audio
    * Parc Ferme celebrations and partial victory lap
    * Improved damage model, although this remains to be seen for now.
    * Better AI - Granted a big bone of contention, and that goes for me too. However, better AI is something to look forward to irrespective of whether you grant it worthiness of being considered a feature.
    * New tracks for the new circuits on the calendars
    * Whole raft of multiplayer improvements

    So explain to me how exactly this isn't a fairly substantial improvement on F1-2010 by the developers in the span of less than 1 year. Saying that it is just an update to F1-2010 is quite dishonest. That would be true if they just stuck to the same physics model, etc, and just put in new car models and tracks and sold a new game.
     
  15. Should probably point out the several points I made in my first post again as well since OP has clearly ignored that... Formula One 2002,2003,2004,05 and 06 by Studio Liverpool had next to no new features each game (career mode in 04 the only one worthy of note) yet no one screamed at them for not making improvements. What do people expect Codemasters to do in a year? What they did in half a year is better than what Studio Liverpool managed in six years. SIX years before they finally released an OK F1 game in Championship edition. Codies have certainly blown them away and I'll now go into the PC games. The patch was nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. I've got both console and PC version and to me they're both the same so I don't see the problem...Rfactor F1 mods- NONE of them are even close to being "realistic" handling in most of them are awful and the damage model (which alot of people moan about in CM even though its actually the best damage model in an F1 game so far...) is bad as well, yes its an old game but people say thats more realistic/better than 2010? Sorry but it's just laughable. As Orion has said as well, the AI in Rfactor is dreadful, 2010 even blows that away and 2011 is from what I've heard from people who have played it, tonnes better even than that. (Another side note look at the safety car in Rfactor and try and tell me thats fun..., buggy as hell so you can see from that its not easy to implement) GP4 never impressed me either I don't see the hype over it. I just cannot fatham what peoples problems are with Codies. You can't get perfection, fact. And OP seriously, like Orion has said dont try and force your opinion onto anyone...especially when its so totally wrong and have not justified a good reason for dislking their efforts so much.
     
  16. can i say im two trophies away (7 year career and reach level 50 online) from all of them. i will be so happy when i get those. this was game was CHALLENGING in a very good way. it push me to so much frustration and then more. but once i got it/did it, it was very satisfying. this game was fun and the most outta of any game i had to play so much to be able to play! when you take a curb faster than what you think you have before then hit it again five kph faster you'll know what i'm talking about..

    this game had problems yea sure, but not any that would make it impossible for a pad on expert. any session you get 'f'ed over' has unlimited restarts til you get it right, IRL F1 one drivers have been doing it since they we're two, fair trade.

    all said, lets hope '11 is better. as in just track my stats online and offline. and ppl who say sorry mate ran outta brakes. and it'll be good.

    as far as helmets, i'd say anything that protects my head is absolutely awesome.
     
  17. good point..but split screen..and then everything else you said.
     
  18. Helmut

    please, stop this trolling its really boring!!! work it out, do the math i played this game at least 200 times and i paid 80$au for it so its basically cost me 40cents per try.

    50 bucks is a bargain if i was serving you i would have charged you double with that attitude!!
     
  19. He's got the same rant in CM forum.
     
  20. 80$? Geez, for that money I'd rather go with iRacing :D

    Yeah, Australian pricing is messed up...

    Anyway, if they went with a single game every two years, I might be bothered to check it out. I'm not an F1 and open wheeler fan, so it's not a game for me anyway.
    Put out a decent game, work on a sequel. Next year add new season's liveries and tracks as DLC, keep working on the sequel. Two years after the first one, publish the next one.
    I really don't see the point in putting out a new one every year, except grabbing more money. But there's not much in it for the consumer.