Sound design in Assetto Corsa

Hi, first post here, so be gentle ;-)
I’m watching AC’s development with extremely high interest. I’ve never had the opportunity to experience NK or FVA first hand, but other people’s opinions are high enough to convince me that AC will be the benchmark for all sims going forward.
My specific question – and forgive me if this has already been covered here or elsewhere, but I didn’t see anything specific on my trawl – is what are Kunos’ plans for sound design in the software. So far, it looks like most other boxes have been ticked; graphics look amazing, handling is unlikely to be anything less than spot on, online and offline racing is being tackled, and the game is to be moddable from the start. So far, so very good. But I haven’t seen that much from Kunos on sound, apart from the sounds we heard in the videos to date were placeholders, and that sitting above the pits at Vallelunga all day serves a fairly up-front reminder that it’s been a neglected aspect of racing sims up to this point.
I’m not a programmer or anything, but I know enough about it to realise that modelling sound anywhere near real life is probably very difficult and resource hungry, but are we anywhere near a stage where we can incorporate realistic behaviour such as in this vid (Monza, appropriately):
I don’t know the technical terms enough to try and use them without mixing them up and confusing people, but it should be immediately obvious what I mean; the echoes off the trees and barriers, the backfiring on the over-run and on the gear change, and (probably the most difficult but perhaps the most important effect) the way the sound ‘carries’ and ‘floats’ as the car storms off round the Curva Grande. Is this possible? Is it feasible?
Another aspect that I’ve never seen captured is the difference in engine note from different ends of the car; the huge differences between induction and exhaust noise, suitably demonstrated by this vid of the Merc SLS GT3:
Again, it’s fairly obvious what I’m talking about. The induction noise of the car coming towards you couldn’t be any more different to the exhaust noise (if you can even call it a ‘noise’. Perhaps ‘force’ would be a better description :-D ) Again, I’ve no idea how difficult it would be to model on a scale that could be used in a simulation, but I’m asking the question anyway: Is it possible? Is it feasible?
If graphics are scaleable for different system levels, why can’t we do the same for sound if resources are an issue?
As more than a few people have noted, sound is often the most neglected aspect of racing sims. I’ve heard the samples Simbin put out as GTR3 teasers, and they were definitely a step in the right direction, assuming they hadn’t been enhanced post-production. I’m not convinced we’ll ever see GTR3 though, and AC has already captured a lot of attention from a lot of fans. If AC get the sound right, I doubt I and a lot of other people will need to go looking elsewhere for a while.
Cheers
 
While RRRE has really good sounds and sound dynamics, IMO - iRacing has even better in-car sounds, at least the ones that have been updated recently. The V8's sound really good and feature resonance and detail that most other titles lack. The new exterior sound dynamics have also really improved in iRacing. There is a nice shift in tone, pitch and volume as the car passes the camera and departs. The exhaust sounds rich, powerful and raw as it should. It's only lacking a little in downshift and backfire effects.

I think that the sound in Pcars is going to be very similar to that of iRacing and that is not a bad thing IMO. The Zonda and the Capri have great range and really make you feel like you are pushing the engine to it's limit. Beyond that, I agree that AC is at another level where driving is concerned and the lack of more dynamic sounds aren't going to keep me away - that's for sure. None the less, I feel that the sounds are very important to achieve a high level of immersion in any racing simulation.
 
Yeah sound is the weakest part of the AC to me too, it's functional but nothing special.
Kind of "synthesized" engine sounds through the rev range between the samples, not that any racing game gets that right but other sims are still better in this department.
Hell even those engine sounds generators (with a few million spend in sound design) in a new M5 sounding awful artificial.
I know that it is nearly impossible to recreate the real deal (dynamic range of 70-90dB in a race car, you can't do that at home) those vibrations i.e., those YT videos aren't helping either, most of them are distorted, normalized, clipping beyond recognition.
I think it is clear that those boys @kunos are still working on improving and are not satisfied either with the current state.
So I hope the sounds getting better and it is still a WIP development going on till and after the release.
 
I agree that the exterior sounds are somewhat behind RRE and iRacing... they made some really nice sounding cars in replays recently... But as far as cockpit sounds go I don't think they are that bad or far off other games... Sure there is room for improvement and some things I don't like but overall it sounds really nice although I have to admit I am not that much into road cars... But the M3 GT2/Zonda/599XX for example are sounds I could live with even if there are no changes ;)
 
It seems that each car is in a different stage of development......Please go drive the E30 Group A (DTM) with a pair of decent headphones with the volume decently loud and tell me what is wrong with it or that it sounds like GT or a vacuum cleaner or any other such nonsense.....If you do I will know that we do not hear things remotely the same way...

The F40 has some amazing sounds also, just not quite as deep and rich as the E30.....I am only talking about the sounds you hear driving the car from cockpit view; I know replays and the sounds in them are important to alot of people but I'm not one of them...I lack the skill and the knowledge to make videos so I very rarely go back and watch a replay.

The Z4 Gt3 car could be better I'm sure (haven't spent much time in it, not my cup of tea right now) but please tell me after listening to the Group A E30 that they need a whole new sound engine or a different guy doing the sounds....it is just pure nastiness in the best of ways...Now if I could only figure out how to go fast in it.
 
These are a few of my favorite videos on youtube. They perfectly display the engine induction then very different exhaust note... The only way for this to be done would be to have 2 totally different sound sets. So you would need on throttle induction, off throttle induction, then on throttle exhaust, off throttle exhaust.


 
GT5 sound engine is ahead of AC's right now I think.

The problem with GT5 is that some cars have bad samples and also the game has so many cars they have to share/generalise car sounds.

Also it runs on a PS3, so less resources to go around.


I think people are being too harsh on GT5 and AC right now.

AC sounds pretty good to my ears. Half the issue seems to be a narrow or no dynamic range, so cars sound flatter than they should.

I think once stuff like that is done then the big job is about collecting and mixing together great samples.

Remember half the car videos you see have loads of gain control going on. A car down the pit straight is probably 30x quieter than when it comes by the microphone vs when it's down the end of the straight.
Different frequencies travel better over distance too, or reflect better, so reverb changes based on frequency and volumes.


It's all relatively trivial to do once you manage sounds in real units, like we do with the graphics these days (high dynamic range (HDR))...



But just to counter some of those points, graphics in AC are not great yet. They are very nice but still no fresnel on the asphalt surfaces in action means they look quite wrong a lot of the time.

For AC to improve the criticisms need to be correct, not just opinionated comparisons to other games/sims where even their operation isn't fully understood.

Dave
 
Did some of you really compare GT5 and Assetto Corsa???

GT5:

Assetto Corsa:

Yeah some sound functions are disabled due some misfunctions and bugs, but the sound is good/sometimes only ok ;)
The latest cars except the Z4 GT3 got a nice sound in my opinion.
 
I have never cared for the very synthetic GT engine sounds and the older version tire squeal noise was horrible and completely destroyed any hope of being immersed for me. The new tires-scrub/squeal in GT is much better now or at least has variability. AC engine sounds are quite a bit better IMO, and AC is still WIP. Unfortunately, the GTx series sounds represent how not to do sounds in a racing game.

I realize that the importance of game sound quality is a matter of personal taste and priority but, recent improvements should serve to demonstrate how better sounds can enhance our SIM experience and immersion.
 
GT5 sound engine is ahead of AC's right now I think.

The problem with GT5 is that some cars have bad samples and also the game has so many cars they have to share/generalise car sounds.
I think this is true. If GT5/6 had half decent sound samples, it would sound exceptional because the sound engine seems quite advanced. In the same way, if AC had a sound engine of GT's quality, it would sound far better because the samples themselves seem quite good to me. I know nothing about sounds, but that's how I see it.

AC sounds really good to me at the moment from cockpit view, but I agree it is lacking when it comes to replay cams and other effects. Not on par with graphics and physics, but still above average I think.
 
Well, Mr Whippy loves to compare Gran Turismo 5 and Assetto Corsa for some reason in multiple topics already. I remember him assuming the physics are lots of better in GT5, because there is something wrong with the MP4, though looking at that video the car in GT5 moves closer to an airplane than a car. I'm still thinking we are facing a serious troll over here. Mentioning GT5 and AC on the same sheet is not even acceptable.
 
Remember GT5 has 700 cars, so there is a chance some sound samples have to be shared.

GT5 was also released before many had access to the 12C to do recording of samples etc. So maybe PD simply didn't have access to a car to record?

Kristof, if you can genuinely say that a worldwide best selling car game that is in it's 6th iteration and doing better than ever isn't even half competent, then I think you are a bit mad.


I've said it many times though, AC's sounds are good to my ears. Good samples. Good blending. Good change of sound dominance as speeds change etc.
It's all great.
All I could ask for is a high dynamic range/real value environment and some gain control system to really give some depth to things and add that final level of realism in replays etc.


I just find it frustrating that people bash GT5 when it's actually very good in lots of ways.

In the end it's limitations are more dictated by the needs of the end user market and their expectations, and the limits of the console of course.

Dave
 
Remember, Polyphony has 150 employees while Kunos has somewhere around 10? Also Gran Turismo, as a series was around 1997, so there was plenty of time to refine everything, and to be honest it didn't develop into something extraordinary as it should have been over those years. Just because it's one of the most selling products in the CAR GAME market, it doesn't really mean more than extreme marketing alongside with Playstation 3. It's a casual game, that you pick up, fire up and just do laps all around, without preparation. Simracing market is a lot more narrow, than something as arcade as Gran Turismo. I still don't see how you dare comparing a casual game with something that needs years of preparation to get the mechanics right and understand most of the game. I would swap quanity for quality any day. Having 700 cars and not even driving 1/3 of them (not the mention the stupid premium thingy) does not make any sense or an excuse for low-quality physics or sound model, at any points. I don't see how you suspected that it's doing better than ever. Everywhere I go, I see people bashing Gran Turismo 6 as much as they can. You are probably living on another planet, if you didn't notice that. Also, doing a car and not basing it on real data, as it might've happened with the MP4 in GT5, then selling the product as a "simulation" is selling strawberry yoghurt and claiming it's the real thing. That is just misleading people.
 
As there seems to be knowledge around i'll use the opportunity and chance: What would be the best way to record external samples? I have the possibility to record samples for our mod in the dyno with the complete exhaust, but i haven't got into it yet. All suggestions are welcomed.
 
As there seems to be knowledge around i'll use the opportunity and chance: What would be the best way to record external samples? I have the possibility to record samples for our mod in the dyno with the complete exhaust, but i haven't got into it yet. All suggestions are welcomed.
It is extremely difficult, expensive and you still need to edit those samples afterwards.
When you have nearly unlimited resources, this how its done

Best thing to do is IMO, record the car sounds at closely padded revs (500rpm intervalls or so on throttle/off throttle) so AC can blend those sample well together, without using too much pitch "interpolation" when going through the rev range.
Use the best recording equipment you can find and afford, renting from a specialized live concert service/TV rental service agency is a valid option.
 
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