Simulation vs Simcade vs Arcade

[David Ignjatovic]

Sim.....at the very minimum, must make me feel like I'm driving a car, obviously there a number of ways to do this, but getting the sim index right/close is the key IMO.

Simcade.....any game that is less convincing than a sim and/or suffers from a problem with steering precision, so I would immediately enter F1 2011 based on ordinary steering precision alone.

Arcade.....a game focused more on fun events and one that has very unrealistic physics, but the lack of realism centers around ease of driving.


This make sense?.....

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Simulation,
the technique of representing the real world by a computer program;

"a simulation should imitate the internal processes and not merely the results of the thing being simulated"

Simcade,
A game that is fundamentally an arcade game but with numbers tweaked to give a small sense of realism.

Arcade,
100% focus on the fun factor, 0% on realism.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Sim......GSC/FVA/GTR Evo

Simcade......pcars/Dirt2/F1 2011

Arcade.....Dirt3/GRID.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Simulation,
the technique of representing the real world by a computer program;

"a simulation should imitate the internal processes and not merely the results of the thing being simulated"

That's the ideal, but the question is, who's doing it best right now....?
Netkar for example feels far more realistic than iracing as iracing seems to be stick or spin, whereas netkar allows for sliding and correcting in a more convincing manner.....at least to me.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

That's the ideal, but the question is, who's doing it best right now....?
Netkar for example feels far more realistic than iracing as iracing seems to be stick or spin, whereas netkar allows for sliding and correcting in a more convincing manner.....at least to me.

I think they prevail in different areas. For me NKPro has the better tire model right now.
It just does what you expect over the limit, the Osella on the hillclimb track letting the rear step out in the hairpins is nothing short of amazing.

However i feel that iRacing has a less static environment, there´s more aliveness in iRacing imo.
I think the tracks play a huge part in this as well. With all the mini-bumps everywhere the car is constantly reacting to the surface.

I never really get nervous in NKPro but i do everytime i take the Cadillac to Watkins and take the esses flat. My brain forgets i´m playing a game so when i get the rear stepping out it literally feels like i will die if i don´t save it.
Bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea,

I think they are both proper simulations but they do different things really good.

 

[Nathan Robinson]

i had a number of moments in the star mazda at laguna in the left hander after the corkscrew. id be chasing for position and get on the gas a little too early and you could feel the ass starting to go. some quickly timed countersteering brought it back safely but definitely jolted my nerves and made me feel alive. i really enjoy iracings handling, but you need to spend a lot of time with cars before you can master them

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I never really get nervous in NKPro .

You must be an amazing driver and a true iracing ambassador.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

. i really enjoy iracings handling, but you need to spend a lot of time with cars before you can master them

I don't necessarily want to master any sim car, but I do want the physics to make sense to me, and atm, some of the cars in both rf2 and iracing don't make sense, for example, as I own nearly every sim and have been playing them for 3yrs, I'm well aware of the need for throttle control and should I apply too much on exit, I should expect wheel spin/wheel spin+some degree of snap or a complete spin, but if I use my experience as a sim racer and still spin, then somethings up.

It's like there's a feedback step that's been left out of some cars in racing/rf2, so when I think it's safe to apply or further apply the throttle{this is a measured amount}, I spin the car.
It'd be different if I'd just moved from arcade racers to sims, but that's not the case.

Netkar OTOH has some of the best feedback, and the subsequent controllability is epic, but that's not to say I can just slam on either the brakes or the gas and motor on...

 

[Hampus Andersson]

You must be an amazing driver and a true iracing ambassador.

It´s not about that. I thought i explained why i feel iRacing feels way more "alive" then NKPro.

True iRacing ambassador? Please do not visit the iRacing forum, you might have to change your opinion.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I don't necessarily want to master any sim car, but I do want the physics to make sense to me, and atm, some of the cars in both rf2 and iracing don't make sense, for example, as I own nearly every sim and have been playing them for 3yrs, I'm well aware of the need for throttle control and should I apply too much on exit, I should expect wheel spin/wheel spin+some degree of snap or a complete spin, but if I use my experience as a sim racer and still spin, then somethings up.

It's like there's a feedback step that's been left out of some cars in racing/rf2, so when I think it's safe to apply or further apply the throttle{this is a measured amount}, I spin the car.
It'd be different if I'd just moved from arcade racers to sims, but that's not the case.

Netkar OTOH has some of the best feedback, and the subsequent controllability is epic, but that's not to say I can just slam on either the brakes or the gas and motor on...

Judging by your thread where you evaluate sims, you kept asking questions about the steering regarding iRacing.
So my question is what settings do you have, and have you tried to look for the recommended ones?

If you haven´t done that then you have quite possibly rated a game with bad wheel settings.

Also, you drive GTREvo a lot, do not expect other sims to handle like GTREvo because it´s not the benchmark in any shape or form when it comes to physics or FFB.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Also, you drive GTREvo a lot, do not expect other sims to handle like GTREvo because it´s not the benchmark in any shape or form when it comes to physics or FFB.

Based on what....your obsession with iracing?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Based on what....your obsession with iracing?

Are you implying i do not race other games? Or do you just keep shooting blanks all the time?

You have been simracing for 3 years.
Why do you assume i have driven the same or less then that?
I have driven countless hours of Simbin games long before you even touched a wheel.

Post your wheel settings so we can check that they are correct.
You wouldn´t want to rate a game with faulty settings right?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I have driven countless hours of Simbin games long before you even touched a wheel.

That's great but I don't consider iracing the benchmark for anything other MP.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

That's great but I don't consider iracing the benchmark for anything other MP.

Who said iRacing was the best in everything?

I personally feel NKPro at this point and time has a way better tire model, because it´s not a work in progress but it´s actually a finished model.
I personally love the Osella on the hillclimb track as well.

However with every post you make it´s easy to read between the lines where it really says : I hate iRacing so much.

There are three David Ignjatovic registered in iRacing. All of them are Rookies.
this tells me that you probably haven´t even given the game a fair chance.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I´m going to try again,

What wheel settings do you have for iRacing?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

However with every post you make it´s easy to read between the lines where it really says : I hate iRacing so much.
.

I don't attempt to reason with this mentality

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I don't attempt to reason with this mentality

Well just look at your own posts... they are always anti-iracing.


You stats on iRacing also says that you barely have played the game.
Remember that everyone who owns iRacing can check what you have driven, when you have driven it.

On your three accounts, you have done a total of 12 races in Rookie class.
Not a single hosted session have you attended either.

One account you did nothing with.

You have consistently tried to frame me as a Pro-iracer, when i then show you that isn´t really the case you simply ignore that bit and try to frame me in another way.

Like this:

"I have driven countless hours of Simbin games long before you even touched a wheel."

"That's great but I don't consider iracing the benchmark for anything other MP."

What?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

What?

silence

 

[Kazumi]

Why would he participate that much in iRacing when he don't really like it?

Simulation,
the technique of representing the real world by a computer program;

"a simulation should imitate the internal processes and not merely the results of the thing being simulated"

That's the purely technical explanation. Moreso for the engine itself not the actual program that runs it.

What if mass of a car is 100000 kg. The simulation might work accordingly but it's not what we want, vehicle dynamics.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Why would he participate that much in iRacing when he don't really like it?

Well it´s a bit hard to judge a game when you have only driven in Rookie class 12 times and not participated in a single race with higher powered cars.

It´s a bit like evaluating a movie while only seeing the first 5 minutes.

Especially when there´s an indication that his wheel settings might be off.
Which would be like watching the video with glasses when you don´t really need them.