'SimShaker - Wheels' support thread

[=Andre=]

Here you can get help with "SimShaker - Wheels" issues and questions.

SimShaker - Wheels is a mediation software between a supported car simulation game and Gametrix JetSeat or well known Buttckicker hardware to provide immersing event driven vibration FXs (special effects).
Currently supported PC titles: iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, rFactor 2, DiRT Rally, Project CARS, Project CARS2, ETS2, ATS, F1 2016/2017 and RRRE.
Currently supported console titles: F1 2016.

 

[St3fan]

Just purchased a license to support you guys work.
Hopefully I'm not being too demanding to hope for better implementation of "SimVibe Extension Mode" to come

 

[=Andre=]

Thank you for the order.
What do you mean under "SimVibe Extension Mode"?

 

[St3fan]

Thank you for the order.
What do you mean under "SimVibe Extension Mode"?

I mean a mode for people like me who have 2 shakers mounted front-back instead of the current default left-right.

I just tried some road cars and I do think if there is no effect when shifting to neutral (currently it bumps when shifting to neutral, so if someone does a double declutch then there would be 2 bumps which is not realistic imho), it would me more accurate. Very tiny anal detail though. I don't even know how I noticed it.

I myself will continue to play around the software.

 

[=Andre=]

In the mean while could you or maybe @=Andre= explain what would you do to switch stereo mode from left/right to pedal/seat? I'm just checking if I do the customization correctly. I'm most confused by the 3 files titled "left bump" "right bump" and "bump".

"left bump" - bump on the left side of the vehicle,
"right bump" - bump on the right side of the vehicle,
"bump" - bump played on the both sides.

 

[St3fan]

"left bump" - bump on the left side of the vehicle,
"right bump" - bump on the right side of the vehicle,
"bump" - bump played on the both sides.

I notice that for example left bump is signal on left channel, then signal on right channel, right bump is the opposite, and bump is both. Do they like interfere with each other?
My setup doesn't have left-right distinction. Would it work just remove the audio files of left bump and right bump, or will it work better if I make left bump and right bump the same file?

 

[=Andre=]

I notice that for example left bump is signal on left channel, then signal on right channel, right bump is the opposite, and bump is both. Do they like interfere with each other?
My setup doesn't have left-right distinction. Would it work just remove the audio files of left bump and right bump, or will it work better if I make left bump and right bump the same file?

I've attached for example my left bump sample. It's just left channel signal. Nothing at right channel.

I think if you replace "left bump" and "right bump" with "bump" sample that should be better.
It doesn't make sense to remove files from a "Base" folder, since the software will return them back.
If you remove files from a "Customized" folder, files from the "Base" folder will be used.

 

[=Andre=]

I mean a mode for people like me who have 2 shakers mounted front-back instead of the current default left-right.

I agree, that worth doing.
I suggest you are almost done that and could share your samples set

 

[=Andre=]

Yeah some of us are not using the engine beat, its distracting for some folks...
I think it would make more sense if Andre had it come in like how Simvibe uses "engine load" based on the pedal depression but letting us adjust the start point %. Like eg 60% depression. An alternative would be for it to look at the cars max RPM being used and become active in the last 70% of this which would activate for each gear. So with say an 8000 RPM car it would come in and increase in strength from 5600 rpm to max volume at the 8000 RPM. This then makes gear changes more fun also as this is active at the high rev values only.

I think I could do that based on % of max RPMs.
Why not. RPMs red line is usually reported by the game.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes indeed

I think it would be worth implementing with the force growing as the RPM increases.

Worked well in Simvibe with tone generation using approx 15Hz-45Hz so I'm sure we could create suitable WAV file that could improve the excitement with increased RPM.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay so I have 4 channel now working (via default base files at this stage).
Some oddities happening for me.
Testing done via AC

I have had 2 instances that the output just stops. SSW is still open but no tactile happening. While it has been running fine. SSW doesn't crash the tactile just stops.

Trying to close and launch SSW again while it opens will not now autostart or manually start.
Only way to get around this was a system restart.

I have also found an occasion that it appears via Asus DGX card. It's EQ meters are moving as SSW generates effects but there is no output from the card at all. I confirmed this with my line out meter monitoring via my Scarlet 1820 audio interface. The DGX was showing output but nothing was going out the card.

However changing the "Analog Out" tab to (2Chn) or (6Chn) seems to then enable the output.
Not sure if this is related to my system.

I'd appreciate if any others can confirm have 4 or 6 channel operating via tactile with no issues?

 

[Vranq]

Excuse me but is anybody able to locate the source or direction of an certain effect that comes from a transducer that is mounted to your rig? I bet no one can. So for me the discussion about left and right side effects is actually pointless.

Wouldn't it be much better if you could assign a certain effect to a fix channel? This is the feature that i miss.

 

[=Andre=]

Actually you already can easily do that in sound editor for any effect.
Any help needed?

 

[Mr Latte]

Excuse me but is anybody able to locate the source or direction of an certain effect that comes from a transducer that is mounted to your rig? I bet no one can. So for me the discussion about left and right side effects is actually pointless.

Wouldn't it be much better if you could assign a certain effect to a fix channel? This is the feature that i miss.

This very thread had recent discussion on this topic you raise.
Basically, we have freedom to create WAV files how we want in the tactile they may generate and then have these, when the "telemetry calls them" to operate on ANY or ALL of the channels.

In this regard, it is SOOOOOOO much better than say Simvibe and having to input MANUALLY individual effects layers and do so for all CM and EM channels with no copy or paste functionality even possible.

When saving your files in Audacity YOU simply determine which channels it will work on.

 

[Vranq]

Hmm ok, but stereo files actually doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't it rather be a 2-channel file with only one channel of sound and one empty channel? But you created "ping-pong" effects for Wheel Slip and this was confusing because i don't see a reason for this.

Same with the bump effects. Why are 3 different directions needed? The effort to build a rig where it is possible to notice the direction from where certain effects are coming would be huge.


Don't get me wrong, i like this software a lot but some things are not (yet) plausible to me.

Btw is it correct that i just have to save new files to the corresponding "Customized" folder for using them?

 

[=Andre=]

To be honest, I'm a bit confused with some of your questions too
>> Hmm ok, but stereo files actually doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't it rather be a 2-channel file >> with only one channel of sound and one empty channel?
If you need FXs to be in one channel, there is a "1 channel" option. Isn't that it?

>>But you created "ping-pong" effects for Wheel Slip
I do not understand you here. Would you please explain?

>> Same with the bump effects. Why are 3 different directions needed? The effort to build a rig where >>it is possible to notice the direction from where certain effects are coming would be huge.
You are not the only user of the software. Some pilots build sophisticated rigs. Why not? Everything is possible for a willing heart. More over, SimShaker features Gametrix JetSeat support with 6 space-distributed vibration zones. BTW JetSeat is a proven and easy way to make a cool rig

>> Don't get me wrong, i like this software a lot....
Thank you

>>Btw is it correct that i just have to save new files to the corresponding "Customized" folder for using >>them?
Yes, that's correct. If you enable Log To Screen option on the main window, you can control that SimShaker - Wheels found and loaded your files.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Vranq

If referring to files I have shared, yes I have tried and experimented with ways to give different effects unique sensation. We are still experimenting to some degree in finding not only what frequencies seem to support the nature of specific effects but also in how these are delivered with various waveforms. We don't want all effects to feel the same, do we? I actually not only appreciate peoples feedback on my own files if people want or feel something needs to be changed so criticism of them is welcomed.

What I would say is, as users we have more control in how we implement or use "Stereo" in SSW than in Simvibe and this is one reason I personally have stated, that in my own opinion it's possible for SSW to better Simvibe regards stereo effects representation. Stereo which, again me personally, I feel does not only feel good but adds to the immersion.

I have monitored every single effect in Simvibe and from what I saw it only offers proper stereo representation with "Suspension" based effects. SSW offers 3 effects in "Wheel Slip" "Bumps & Buffets" and "Lateral G" with stereo representation.

Yes a "left bump" should use the left channel, of course.
Yet effects like "Damage" or "Mono Bump" can operate on both L/R channels or go to all channels if desired. When a car bottoms, or is on grass at high speed and is bobbing up/down is this using the "mono bump" and not just an individual wheels suspension? Ive not paid particular attention to how/when the "mono bump" is used. If it is to represent more the cars overall chassis than just each specific wheels suspension travel?
Perhaps Andre can confirm.

We can build effects to suit ANY configuration. For example someone may have a 4 channel tactile configuration. Yet use only stereo in the base of the seat for L/R directional effects. However, have EM style for specific effects usage for the pedals and back of the seat. Just as the Jet Seat does for some effects restricted to individual zones. So this if a users config needs to be different than that of a front/rear stereo sets. Just as a user with 2 units but acting as front/rear set and not left/right pair.

Andre may not want such comparisons to Simvibe or prefer to not get involved but the truth is most people are going to question how or what from a users perspective is different, better or worse. The only drawback I see currently is with what is possible with engines effects. That's up to Andre to consider improving or to add additional axis effects, as clearly he still has room for more to be added.

Chat and discuss what you want in a profile.
I certainly welcome more to get involved and give this software a try.

 

[St3fan]

Andre may not want such comparisons to Simvibe or prefer to not get involved but the truth is most people are going to question how or what from a users perspective is different, better or worse.

Yes I tried really hard to refrain myself from asking for a comparison.

Recently I watched this guy's video:

Although I don't have experience with SimVibe, and my knowledge of tactile system is limited, but in my experiments with SSW I do understand what the YouTuber was talking about.

Do I want more feedback from the bumps, or do I want more feedback from the tire slipping? Do I build my tactile setup for VR for sake of more immersion, or better understanding what all my tires are doing? I find more than often when I casually drive in VR, I would want to have more intense bump effects to make me feel that I'm in the real car (engine vibrations will also add to the immersion but now I do agree with Mr Latte to some extent that current engine beat approach in SSW is a bit weird for me). But if I am trying to drive at the limit and break personal best lap times, having more information from the tires would be more helpful, so I would reduce bump effects because the bumpiness would wash out every other sensation.

In the past few days I have been trying back and forth different balances between these ideas, and more and more I feel that how much each effect is presented is very much to personal taste and personal sim rig setup. More than often I have had this strange "disconnected" feeling with the shakers shaking, because when they give vibrations instead of feeling the authenticity that I'm in the car, I feel that I'm receiving fabricated effects made by me myself.

Also I still think there is some delay in AC driving over bumps, I really wish to have a way to record the waveform of game audio and SSW bump effect output to see if there really is a delay, or is it a problem in my hardware setup.

 

[Mr Latte]

Good points to raise, will hold back for a while for others to also share and offer their views.
SSW appears to use effects that give more impression to what the car is doing. The deceleration effect is another example not found in Simvibe of addressing loads on the car and not just bumps or surfaces.

I have raised with AC the issue of what determines low/big bump values.
Simvibe offered dynamic volume and dynamic tone sensitivity controls, to address this.

No doubt SSW does something internally but how it utilises a small bump to large bump regards the "WAV file" for the effect perhaps can be improved/addressed to give more sensation to smaller bumps?

I can't say if this is an issue outside of AC as I only use it currently.
I can, however, consider looking into this issue of delay with bumps and can do a video showing SSW in operation to the onscreen action for the future.

 

[=Andre=]

I have raised with AC the issue of what determines low/big bump values.
Simvibe offered dynamic volume and dynamic tone sensitivity controls, to address this.

No doubt SSW does something internally but how it utilises a small bump to large bump regards the "WAV file" for the effect perhaps can be improved/addressed to give more sensation to smaller bumps?

As a common method to detect bumps I look for positive Vertical Acc changes and Bank value at that moment.
Bank values allows to suggest at which side (left/right) the bump is encountered. If Bank = 0, I play Bump sample for both sides. The volume of the FX (i.e. big or small bump) is proportional to Vertical Acc change. To let you emphasize small bumps by moving gain sliders to the right and not to be over-stressed with big ones I've added the Compressor options. Compressor automatically reduces the volume if output signal becomes too high. Is it helpful?

 

[Mr Latte]

I think the compressor helps with some of the previous issues.
Not really looked at SSW via the audio/monitoring until tonight.

Just got around to connecting my audio monitor gear so will start to look more into things.
This video (download for 1080/60 quality) shows a simple test with front 2 channels, regards some peoples concerns of delay from kerbs/bumps. Note only bumps effect is active!!!



Further Testing Of My Issue
For me something is wrong with 4/6 channel operation.
It works for only a short period of time then cuts out.
The Asus EQ shows a signal is still being generated but nothing is being outputted.
Requires changing (speaker analog out) back to 2 channel, then back to 4 or 6 to get REAR channels working
Then cuts out again.
I have tried various ASIO options like (hardware buffer) but this does not help.
More than 2 channels for me keeps cutting out.