SimBin: 'Don't worry about bankruptcy rumours'

[Howard]

Various websites have posted news regarding potential bankruptcy of SimBin Studios AB, here's a little substantiated clarification.

RaceDepartment understands that the current SimBin Studios AB company is undergoing a large restructuring. Current projects, such as R3E, are expected to be continued under the new banner of the new studio.

It is understood that there have been a handful of job losses at SimBin, however the majority of the development team is expected to remain at the 'new' studio. We'd like to wish those who have lost their jobs all the best in finding a new position.

We're confident that the information we're providing to you is up-to-date and correct, and is not based on speculation from social media.

SimBin's own @Jay Ekkel said, on RaceDepartment's forums:

Ill keep it short and sweet for now.

New Studio, new (tbd) name, new location, (almost) the same team. And most importantly we will continue the development of the project(s).

More (good) news will follow soon (tm)

Don't worry about it, services and development will continue as planned.

There's nothing to worry about in regards to support of current games, or the release of future games. Content that has already been purchased will still function as normal.

Image: SimBin Studios AB​

 

[Tony Gentile]

I support SimBim 100% love DTM , RRE ,GTR evo ,Race 07,GTR2 ,GTR
Have had many many 100s or 1000s of racing hours of fun
Thanks to these guys
Awesome product

 

[DucFreak]

I loved GTR 2, Legends and Race. The reason I still race GTR 2 is that it is a full sim. With that I mean: 24 hour clock, weather, pitstops, tires, tracks, cars, mods, liveries and a decent driving model.
My small expectation and big hope was R3E would be a GTR 2 successor, which it is not. And as I understand from your post, never will be. That is not your problem, it is mine. AS company you have decided to change direction and from that point of view I think it is a good to let go of the old name Simbin as people will always refer to the history.
(...)
Expectation management....I need to work on that.

Yep, well put, and pretty much what I feel as well.

I actually think what the community still seems to want from SIMBIN is "GT-Legends 2", "GTR 3" and "Race 14" (etc) for today's era - i.e, their older, complete style of products (considering the package) with new gen advancements, updated content, etc, seeing there was and is absolutely nothing wrong with those products other than being old tech.

Sometimes it almost seems like a 'generational' thing, i.e, people that were well over 10 years ago into gaming in general and in sim-racing in particular, do not see themselves going with more recent (although not that new) market tendencies of P2P, paid DLC, micro-transations, etc.
I honestly perceive that there's a strong refuse/resist sense (justified?) in accepting that marketing/business strategy by a significant user base, as much as the younger (perhaps wealthier?) crowd and game-devs/corporations/management insist that it should be accepted, for the sake of continuity in the business in this "hardcore" genre and such (which IMHO will actually break it, considering it's a very small niche).
Necessity of having it or not in the business, I personally hate that crap and I won't get into it, even if it means sticking to old games or changing genre altogether.

Funny enough, we're seeing that with racing-wheel controllers too.
While quality in materials has increased (no doubt), prices gone well over 2x and 3x, sometimes 4x. It's no longer unusual to have 400,00 €uros wheels being sold as the "regular/average pieces of equipment" for the hobby, even without inclusage of shifter.
It's becoming ludicrous considering the current economy's state in the world.
......and I'm not even getting into that other part of necessary investment due to PC hardware demands to make the newer games run as they were intended.....

I think the developpers of both games and peripherals should stop, reflect, and think about newcomers to the genre, the reality of the economy, and that not everyone is a "twenty-something with first world problems".
Any of us was at some point a newcomer to the genre (including the devs), many of us wouldn't afford this hobbie if we were to start today (instead of yesterday), probably wouldn't have kept with it if we managed to get in at all.
If not in yourself, check in your circle of friends that you met along the way in this hobby and you know that is true.
I can't come up with a solution, and I don't think anyone can present a miracle but, honestly, I've been into gaming since mid-80s, sim-racing since late 90s, and I've never seen such a splitted community of "haves and haves not" as today.

 

[David Wright]

I have also noticed the increasing cost of peripherals like wheels and triple screens (and the uber-graphics cards needed to run them) apparently becoming the norm,

Not trying to change your views Lucio - just contributing to the thread, but on micro-transactions/paid DLC I think its only fair to make two points.

1. iRacing have grown to dominate on-line racing using not only a paid DLC system but also a subscription. It does tend to indicate that the silent majority of on-line players accept the system, even though in iRacing you never own the stuff you bought - you really do have to pay-to-play with the subscription system.

2. The mico-transaction/paid DLC system does not have to be more expensive than the traditional sim package. IRacing is very expensive but R3E is far cheaper (though if you pay full price I admit its not as good value as the older Simbin titles). There is no subscription and a basic free package is surely a nice way in for sim newcomers. Its also worth remembering that the old buy-a-complete-package concept only works if you can sell your customers a new complete package every year, this package typically selling your customers tracks and cars they already have in the old package.

Having said all that I sill prefer the old complete package system because I like to simulate a full real series rather than adopt a pick and mix approach to cars and tracks. Also Simbin's approach of giving you the game for free and just selling content means they can't support modding.

 

[DucFreak]

@ David:

Regarding iRacing as an example of successfull business, what I think that is never mentioned (because, of course, it suits) is the considerable ammount of users that do not renew their iRacing subscription. The new ones getting in and paying, making up for the ones leaving, mask the issue and create a false sense around it.
Of course, if the content is expensive and there's sufficient numbers of users to pay, regardless of satisfaction, the business will go great (oldest trick in the book).
I've never got into it simply by a matter of principle (and I admit of being one of the vocal naysayers in the old defunt RSC forums) but I know a good ammount of ex-iRacing users that have deeply regret the financial investment on it, especially ones that admit of having felt compeled to give that "one more try" time and time again (marketing and hype can do that trick sometimes, heh).
Most get in driven by curiosity and word of mouth (as any other specialized game, I guess) and it must be a good product (otherwise wouldn't maintain users), but I seriously doubt that their biggest user base -I would even bet that not even half of it- is composed by subscribers that have been there since the start in August 2008 (heh, yes, it's been 6 years!), quite far from it.

Whatever the case, that is one polarizing game regarding "bang for buck" terms (whatever one's stance), and it's not even up for discussion.
Same thing for R3E.
You never, ever, seen anyone complaining about prices of GTL, GTR1 or GTR2, Race07 or any other older SIMBIN game.
You've seen some posts mentioning figures of 140,00+ pounds(!) just to get nearly all the content available for R3E (an unfinished game that does little more than hotlapping).
What do you make of that?

Another aspect that I don't see the community speaking of, which will turn into circular discussions and problems, is concerning the online crowd and its online racing events.
If most leagues start events with paid DLC content, wouldn't that be opening a can of worms and a bad precedent?

...food for thought...

 

[Queequeg]

I think @DucFreak touched on an important point here concerning the costs of simracing and how newcomers might get the impression you need a 500€ wheel and triple screens to get into simracing. While I have a T500 now, I started simracing with a used DFPro for 40€ and I am using a single screen. I know this is offtopic, so maybe we should open a new thread?

Concerning DLC and paid content, I feel most comfortable with a complete package of cars and tracks of one or more series. I am open to DLC as long as there is enough default content that comes with the standard version, as long as it is not required to have all the DLC on the grid to participate in a a race and ofc it needs to be priced reasonably.
The F2P model where you need to purchase content if you want to use it continually does not interesst me at all tbh and it's the main reason why I don't play Raceroom (the next important reason being that it's badly optimized and looks like **** if I aim at 60fps settings-wise).

 

[DucFreak]

Having said all that I sill prefer the old complete package system because I like to simulate a full real series rather than adopt a pick and mix approach to cars and tracks. Also Simbin's approach of giving you the game for free and just selling content means they can't support modding.

Missed this somehow in previous reply...

I agree fully, there's nothing like the old traditional formula of real life racing series simulated and delivered in a complete package.
You brought there another subject that I would like (ex?)SIMBIN members (Jay Ekkel?) talk a little about - what's their stance regarding modding for their titles and, of course, wether that will be possible at all in future titles (and, if so, if there'll be any support)?

 

[Queequeg]

I know Simbin are committed to Raceroom and everything, but let's think for a moment:

What if somebody licensed the RF2 physics engine, put DX11/12 graphics on top, licensed a popular series and made a complete package of a racing game that works OUT OF THE BOX including
- not downloading and extracting 20 files before you boot it up
- working mirrors and shadows
- optimization so you don't need a NASA machine to run 60 fps with a 12 car grid
- presets for wheels that actually work (min steering force on t500 needs to be changed in .ini welcome to simracing in 1995)
- real road configured in a reasonable way (not every weekend starts on a green track, 20 laps x 20 cars dont make the tracks black and sticky for days)
and released that game in 2017 after the hype for AC and Project CARS has calmed down a bit?

Oh, a man can dream

 

[Christian Casey]

+1

ISI motor 2.0 + 64bit + dx11 + licence x gtr2 = something we would be talking about 10 years from now.

 

[UOPshadow]

None the less, we are all ears about what is you would like to hear from us.

That's easy., just announce...
- an AI Slider (the adaptable AI is the sole reason I don't play DTM-E, it's just too much of a hassle to get the experience I want)
- Pitstops
- different Tyres
- complete Packages with cars and tracks

I simply don't care about an F2P-buy-it-peacemeal Game. As a gamer I care about a feature complete experience. I bought DTME at release, but was let down by small things which ruined the whole game for me... up until now there is no promise to deliver Pitstops and an AI Slider, despite various complaints. I believe you are all willing to implement these features, but your communication is lacking in this regard.
When I bought Assetto Corsa, I got a list which features to expect, with DTME I got the "ultimate" Experience... which is lacking. You only create buyers remorse with such marketing.

 

[Jay Ekkel]

Well as i said before, an AI slider will most likely come, when is the part i cant answer at this time.

We and you also want SP, MP to be added, get better cut rules, new FFB, new track tech, new car shaders, pitstops, multiple tire compounds and the list goes on and on.

So the when part is down to priorities, and in that list at this moment in time I cannot say where it stands.

 

[Ben Lee]

I personally refuse to take part in any subscription based games. I also actively avoid dlc unless there is a specific reason or I think it's justified. In fact the only dlc I've actually ever bought was one of the old battlefield 2 packs for what I think was £5, back in 2007 (probably before dlc as a business model truly really took over).

 

[Bryan O'Connor]

So the when part is down to priorities, and in that list at this moment in time I cannot say where it stands.

See this is the thing that annoys people about SimBin. There are no timelines or trajectories. Do you guys turn up for work each morning and scratch your chins for 10 minutes before deciding what you're doing that day?
Surely you can say which of these features is the priority? Kunos, Bohemia Interactive..... and even Indie developers are/were quite open with what features are coming and what the priorities are. Why does Simbin refuse to do the same?
This is where the problem lies - people are not just waiting for the game to be finished, they are also pumping money into it at the same time. Most Early Access games you pay one price (a discount on the final release i may add). You guys release cars, tracks, experiences... all the while we wait for some kind of progress. And there never really is (last update FFB was probably the most memorable) any progress.

 

[Jay Ekkel]

I fully disagree on the refusing to share bit......SP and MP are the game feature priorities, FFB and updated track tech are the gameplay priorities. I am sure that this news has been pretty well communicated for the last months ....

I don't think we are less open then Kunos for example. yeah they tweet some fun bits and bobs, but info wise, we are not much different

While we work on the above tasks it means that the AI slider and other similar things are moved on a to-do list, and are not planned as such, priorities may shift by that time etc etc.

First things first and that are the above mentioned, plus some back end task.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I can talk about a lot of things of stuff we want to do, and I could tell you all about it right now, but it would be just words, nothing to back it up with.

Chances are I might be selling hot air a la peter molyneux <---google that guy, and that is not a pathI would like to walk on. Let us focus on the prio task, we will keep you posted on those as much as we can.

And by the time they are nearing completion/first iteration we can start thinking about other tasks and when and how to inform you about it.

EDIT: Not agreeing does not mean I don't agree we can make improvements on communication!

 

[Jay Ekkel]

On a similar note If you want to see what is being updated to the game, inc things that are not announced yet still very important, you can go here.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/211500/discussions/1/828939164212239617/

It gives you good info on the things that are being worked on atm.

 

[Marcel Offermans]

While we work on the above tasks it means that the AI slider and other similar things are moved on a to-do list, and are not planned as such, priorities may shift by that time etc etc.

For the record, this way of working is fairly popular nowadays in the software industry. It's part of an "agile" movement that plans only a couple of weeks ahead at a time, working on small, incremental bits of software. It allows you to stay very flexible in terms of what you want to do next and I can fully understand why SimBin works this way.

In theory, any company working this way could open up more and show everybody how the current iteration is going and what the priorities on their to-do list (often called backlog) are, but that would not help you very much because such priorities can and will change, meaning you cannot say that feature X will be done at date Y in the future.

 

[Peter Johnson]

On a similar note If you want to see what is being updated to the game, inc things that are not announced yet still very important, you can go here.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/211500/discussions/1/828939164212239617/

It gives you good info on the things that are being worked on atm.

Thank you for that, it is very informative. I have a question. Is it this common in the game software development industry to have so many issues to fix in your software?

 

[Jay Ekkel]

Well the game is in developments, so its not much fixes as it are improvements, additions and replacements etc etc. Lets hope that any game in final release does not require a lot of fixes

 

[Peter Johnson]

Perfect. Thank you.

 

[F1Maniac]

On a similar note If you want to see what is being updated to the game, inc things that are not announced yet still very important, you can go here.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/211500/discussions/1/828939164212239617/
It gives you good info on the things that are being worked on atm.

I agree that you can easily see what WAS put in the game (and fixed) but I think another concern is that there is no real timeline (ETA) for what is pushed out and when.

The insider.simbin blog is/was a good source too on what's being worked on.

 

[Craig Stevenson]

Jay,

We are talking BASICS here for some of these things, Tyre Temps\Choices and Pit Stops, sorry but which ever way you look at it DTM:E is flawed at best and most certainly IS NOT a Sim without them. Personally I don't think we will see Pit Stops or Tyre Temps\Choices in DTM:E 2014 or any time soon and I really DO NOT understand why Tyre Temps weren't in there from the start, it's a BASIC element, we know Tyre Temps are being generated as they can be read by Apps so why not in-game and why can't we adjust them?

You talk about Communication and then skip over many questions, you chose to answer ONE part of UOP's question about the Slider and then the Politician answer came in to answer his other points, that is what myself and I'm sure others find so annoying

Let's try again, are Pit Stops and Tyre Temps\Choices going to be implemented in DTM:E 2014, it is only a few months away from release so you must know?