Silverstone

[Peter Duivelaar]

Yes we should. It's stealing copyrighted material. Pure theft and I don't wish to support that.

I totally agree with Bram.

 

[David Garcia]

So, how can we know when it is legal or when it is ilegal material?

Should we go back on time and see if the creator of the circuit had his rights from the Real Circuit owners?

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

Unless we start to ask permission ourself then you just don't know. (at least i don't )
And since this is impossible to do we have to trust sites like no-grip.
Don't see any other solution.

What about conversions from GTR2 to EVO like some tracks on RD.
Don't you have to own GTR2 then ? Or am i wrong here ?
Would love to race on the Aussie track that where on GTR2 like half the simworld but for some reason we can't. I just can't follow anymore what is legal and what is not.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Sorry but i disagree, copyright, it's right they have to protect their work but if they know this material is being copied without permissions and they know where it is and who it was, and still they don't do anything, for me and for the legal system is they are giving tacit permission, no legal administration in the world will act without a charge.

What copyright owner can't ask is for users being their copyright policemans, that's ridiculous. They can just open a download section in their site where people can upload all legal mods, and say any download different than that is not legal... but they won't, because they know also ilegal content sells games...

Cya!.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

So if you steal my car and i decide for whatever reason that i don't press any charges makes it ligitimate to steal that car?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I have looked this track up on NG and if you only read the downloads description it says enough:

This is the newer and later version of Silverstone created by ISI, the 3 layouts
Note, the GP layout will be listed as BritishGP in "Add-ons" and the British International and National layouts are listed in the "Variations" menu.
its based on the later Rfactor track, so all credits and thanks for the modelling go to ISI, I only enhanced it for use on GTREvo/Race07/GTR2 by retexturing and remapping most surfaces, to represent the GP track of 08 and touring car versions. Its called the BritishGp to hopefully prevent any conflicts with other versions..

The confusing part is this line: so all credits and thanks for the modelling go to ISI

Its like you give credits to the guy who's car you stole Doensn't make any sense to put that in the description of a mod

 

[Xosé Estrada]

So if you steal my car and i decide for whatever reason that i don't press any charges makes it ligitimate to steal that car?

No, but that's not the case.

I steal your car, you don't put any charges.

I regularize that car as mine, you see me driving it, and saying is mine and still you don't care.

Then I give it to Mark, as a present, so he doesn't know it was stolen and thinks I bought it and I'm the legal owner.

Has mark to research if all my history it's true, and ask a private investigator?.

No, It's my fault for being a thieft, and yours for don't give a damm for your work, or more than that, you agree by fact with the property transmission between you and me. Go to the insurance and say you want to receive the money of your stolen car, they inmediatly will ask you for the police charge.

In this history:

YOU --> Games Developer
ME --> Ilegal Modder
MARK --> Simracer

Cya!.

 

[Wietse Visser]

problem with the reference to steeling a car is that cars are person related ( and you know that because you didnt bought the car) as for racetracks they are sometimes are open for the public. like the thing in amsterdam when they put Loan bikes for everyone free to use. If you have the same sort of bike and didnt put a lock on it how can the users of loan bikes see its actually your bike.....

 

[Mark A Warmington]

Ok - I have slept and am now a bit more lucid. Let me clarify one point (my stance on copyright material): theft of intellectual property is theft and I do not condone it in any way what-so-ever! The analogy of the car is interesting but wouldn't support our argument: a car buyer is encouraged to get a car HPI checked prior to purchase - as you have no rights if you buy a stolen car (you would lose your money and car, with no recourse, if the legal owner claims the car, at any time, the law is firmly on their side).

However - what annoys the hell out of me is bodies, institutions and companies placing the burden on the end user rather than the supplier or manufacturer. It is the same with green taxes etc: instead of tariffs in the manufacturer building gas guzzlers they tax the hell out if the end user.

The owner of the (product) needs to place the burden on the supplier and protect their property by enforcing the copyright law they invoke and rant about. Yes - receiving stolen goods (knowingly) is an offence - but stop the thief first and then there will be no unsuspecting mugs (us) receiving the stuff!

More than two pennies worth there. More like ten pounds .

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I think we can debate about this topic for ten pages but it won't solve a thing.

Image Space Incorporated said by e-mail that they haven't granted permission to convert that track or the Montreal or the Mills Metro track as listed over at NG.

I know that we made a few rules for ourselfs that tracks/mods should be legal (giving the right example and hopefully more will follow in the future) or have permission from the original author.

In this case thats not the fact, so can we close the discussion about it?

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Of course