Sell me Automobilista

Celestiale · Sep 27, 2016

The title says it all

please fans of this Sim, sell it to me.

To better judge my personality in terms of virtual driving, i'll tell you which comparable (in terms of content) sims i own, how i "use" them, and why i think they are all worth it, even when you own them next to each other.

1. Assetto Corsa: I use it solely as driving sim. What i like most is the believable and realistic interpretation of many iconic street cars, with their real manufacturer data. Alongside the great Force Feedback (after some .ini fiddeling), Mods, especially when it comes to the track/road/hillclimb variety. I rarely use it for racing, because the AI is **** and useless to race against, and i barely have the time (and leisure) to practise hours over hours for a single race, to compete in online racing (full of aliens, this sim). Nonetheless this is my N°1 in time spent so far - just doing track days on the Nordschleife or Road America.

2. Project Cars: I use it mostly as racing sim. One good reason: The AI. I don't deny that it sometimes has some weird moments (especially Karts), but overall it feels very alive, tries to overtake (also each other), and feels very "human" in the kind of not perfect, makes mistakes as well. Makes racing against them the most fun from all sims, in my opinion. In addition it has the best graphics, and awesome weather effects, especially rain races are a highlight. Second most played sim by myself to date.

3. Raceroom Racing experience: Used it both as hotlap and racing sim. I love the Force Feedback, the best i have ever felt with my wheel (T300). Alongside the great sound, and all those licensed classes, the immersion is great. The AI is not too bad as well, at least it tries to overtake if you are dawdling around (hello AC). However i noticed after some time that it never defends the inside corner, that makes overtaking a tad to easy, as soon as you catch up, and it also is a little bit lifeless (compared to Project Cars). I am pretty sure if i would dare to start racing online, this would be my favourite sim.
As it is R3E for me is a little caught betwixt and between, it doesn't have the variety of AC for hotlapping/driving, and not as good AI/surroundings as PC for offline racing. I still unpack it here and then, to witness the great ffb.

I also own and enjoy to race in F1 2016 and Dirt Rally, but i am not explaining in detail, since those are not really direct competition.

So after this explanation, what i want from you is to tell me, why - after already owning quite some awesome sims - i should buy Automobilista as well, and which added value i'd get over all those other sims

Thanks in advance

Marcos Santi · Oct 6, 2016

Honestly I think that laser tracks are not important, dont make a great difference.

Jim Liak · Oct 6, 2016

Richie Speed said:
My sim racing career started with Geoff Crammonds GP4 and F1 2002 on PC. Since then I've been there through almost all of them: rFactor, GTR, GTR 2, Race 07 +, GTR Evo +, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, NKpro, and some others.

I also race in real life, am a racing instructor, and would confidently say I know how a car handles.

iRacing has the tracks. This is simply not beatable. Laser scanned, big budgets, just perfect. No competition.

Automobilista has the physics. Niels is a godsend. Not one sim comes close.

I don't need to say more. If a simulator with the budget and scope of iRacing had the physics and attitude of AMS devs, every other sim would go bust. I really hope one day, these guys are able to tap into a bigger market as AMS is very niche, even within the sim community.

I really would like to hear some thoughts about physics.
I bought the session pass. Then I took the road car for a spin in brands hatch.
I waited for the tyres to warm up and tried to push.
No matter what, I never got the feeling that I drive a car. Rear end will slide in a scripted manner it's like tyres are made of plastic not rubber. I couldn't micro adjust the grip as I can totally do in AC where the tyres feels great and natural.
I was so disappointed that I asked for a refund.
My settings were at default. G27 , profiler only gain at 100%, everything else at 0 and in game at pure 360.

yusupov · Oct 6, 2016

"the road car"? whether you mean the camaro (which probably hasnt had any changes in years) or the ultima that was very silly on a few levels.

Jim Liak · Oct 6, 2016

I tested the Ultima.
Actually all of the new cars.
I haven't passed the 2 hour limit for the steam refund but I think that I gave more than enough time in each car.
Ultima road car was tested for 45' I think.
The other less.

yusupov · Oct 6, 2016

45 minutes of hell...its not comparable to anything in AC & ive probably got about the same amount of seat time in it as you do (likely less, actually). from the couple (literally) clean laps ive been able to do, my times are actual very fast compared to real world production car laps on the same circuits (ive been doing test days @ medium usage w/ it so far, can't imagine ever racing it). but they feel agonizingly slow...takes a unique (to me) approach to lap the car that ive only now even picked up on, when i gave it another shot after reading your post. whether or not it should be so difficult i can't say; i'd like to see an onboard fast lap of the 720 irl & i need to watch niels video on it quite desperately.

dont know what to say to you about the other cars, almost all of which i find pretty damn good. personally ive always thought the tire model feels as close to AC as anything out there (good or bad, though from your post i think that'd rate as 'good'), & its very hard for me to find fault w. the updated ffb.

Richie Speed · Oct 6, 2016

Regarding laser scanning: I very much believe in simulators as a training tool, and often use them before racing for real. In this regard, using iRacing has been very valuable to me. I'm not exaggerating when I say learning a tiny elevation change in iracing can benefit you in real life. This is also very apparent at Oulton Park in AMS, I may make a video explaining.

I did a couple of laps of Brands Hatch beta and wasn't massively impressed, I've done literally thousands of laps there in real life. However, that is not my final review at all, I didn't have a proper go. I will be trying again after full release. Oulton impressed me very much, and in terms of accuracy is on par with iracing.

Laser scanning for me is very important as it can teach me before visiting a new track. Again, I may make a video explaining why. If I get the time!

In terms of physics, AMS knocks all others clean out of the water. Iracing simply does not have an accurate tyre slip model. Driving a car on the limit and beyond is quite easy in real life. Sliding about and being messy is easy but slow. In AMS I feel that. I can make the cars move, slide, get messy, and still be in control. But messy is SLOW. Driving fast is an art, it's not always about driving on the limit. Every track will have corners where you must drive below the limit to correctly setup for the next corner etc. This is the hard bit of driving fast.

AMS does this very well. I often feel iracing is a game of driving on a knife edge with no room for error. I don't like that at all. AC and rf2 both feel good in certain cars but not on AMS level. AC can feel absolutely boring sometimes and I can't figure out why.

Hope that answers some questions. I am definitely interested in making a little video about these things with real comparisons.

ouvert · Oct 6, 2016

Im sure, Ritchie, that lots of guys here would appreciate such a video ..

Ultima is weird beast ... Race version is great, requires a focus but manageable. Road version is crazy.. If you are not trying go fast it is fine, but once you do, workout begins and if you are not 100℅ paying attention it is impossible to drive(for me) ... You can't just say I tried roae car in AMS and it felt nothing like those in AC ..
There is nothing like that in AC ..

P*Funk · Oct 6, 2016

Jim Liak said:
I really would like to hear some thoughts about physics.

They're great? What do you expect people to say. You'll come in here soon enough and tell me things about AC that I can't for the life of me discern to be true from my personal experience, like...

I couldn't micro adjust the grip as I can totally do in AC where the tyres feels great and natural.

I can basically rewrite the sentence as follows --

[In AC] I can't micro adjust the grip as I can totally do in [AMS] where the tyres feels great and natural.

I have the inverse experience. Nobody is going to be able to give you any comment that'll satisfy what amounts to your feels are different to my feels. That's fine, everyone's experience is different, I just think the knee jerk refund is a bit... sad. I feel very lukewarm about the driving experience in AC but I buy lots of it and enjoy it. I guess you're a pickier sim consumer.

Richie Speed said:
AC can feel absolutely boring sometimes and I can't figure out why.

That is exactly the sentiment I've been trying to understand myself. I often get pumped up to try AC again, even spend an hour or two putting around with different cars but never reach that level that I do with AMS or formerly GSCE where I can drive for an hour in a single car track combo pushing myself to the limits, establishing consistency, then doing a nice long AI race.

I dunno why, AC has never grabbed me by the cajones like that.

P*Funk · Oct 6, 2016

Just to add to my comment by going off on a more sincere tangent, watching this video, its in medias res fade in with the shrill engine and the awesome speed seen, gives me chills of excitement. I feel this way because I know what its like to drive that particular car in AMS. I can't get that feeling anywhere else, in any sim. I like many sims, I have many installed, I do not ascribe to the monotheistic dogma of many who have one sim to rule them all. Still though there is something about the product of Reiza's work.

Its simply the most exciting thing I can do with a wheel attached to my computer. Its the closest I can get to being in the zone with sim racing. I can drive AC and I enjoy it. Putting in laps at Nords is great fun but I can't race that sim like I can race AMS, and I mean that both as a practice of pushing and experiencing the limit as well as the emotional commitment to doing something as absurd as putting my head into deep concentration mode for 30+ minutes in a computer game. When I put effort into iRacing I mostly felt anxiety for long races because it was so hard to feel in control of the car, always on a knife edge of losing it. In AMS its more like I feel like I'm wrapping myself in the sheer blanket of the limits of grip where surely I can easily have it torn off rudely but somehow its more secure feeling even driving that absurd beast that is the Formula V12.

That's just how I feel, and if there's any reason I proselytize so heavily for Reiza its because of that feeling I get, but its not to convert people to the cult of Reiza to the exclusion of others, merely instead to the inclusion of what many seem to dismiss too readily. Those who know though understand it and I honestly see much less smug enthusiasm for Reiza as I see with other sims and generally its more like a passionate enthusiasm, perhaps in part due to how underdog it feels compared to the flashier bigger sims with so much brand appeal, all of which still have their merits even if they fail to move me and enthuse me as much.

Alright... that's enough misty eyed bullshit.

GuitarTech · Oct 6, 2016

P*Funk said:
They're great? What do you expect people to say. You'll come in here soon enough and tell me things about AC that I can't for the life of me discern to be true from my personal experience, like...

I can basically rewrite the sentence as follows --

[In AC] I can't micro adjust the grip as I can totally do in [AMS] where the tyres feels great and natural.

I have the inverse experience. Nobody is going to be able to give you any comment that'll satisfy what amounts to your feels are different to my feels. That's fine, everyone's experience is different, I just think the knee jerk refund is a bit... sad. I feel very lukewarm about the driving experience in AC but I buy lots of it and enjoy it. I guess you're a pickier sim consumer.

That is exactly the sentiment I've been trying to understand myself. I often get pumped up to try AC again, even spend an hour or two putting around with different cars but never reach that level that I do with AMS or formerly GSCE where I can drive for an hour in a single car track combo pushing myself to the limits, establishing consistency, then doing a nice long AI race.

I dunno why, AC has never grabbed me by the cajones like that.

I think Richie is bang on the money with his opinion. AMS Is so good, it's the closest to perfection I've ever seen. At the moment, apart from AMS, I have GTR2, P&G, AC, Pcars, R3E, and rF2. And this evening I'm going to de-install them all, except for AMS. None of the others even comes close for completeness like AMS: driving physics, pit behavior, the UI, the cars, the tracks, the immersion, everything. The only thing I will sometimes miss is the weather in Pcars, but I certainly won't miss the pit behavior in Pcars. Everytime the Engineer says "go go go", I feel like getting out and hitting him in the face with my helmet

Immersion factor zero. What were they thinking? And AC just feels dead, I still don't get it, although I've been driving in it almost since it was released. R3E is more Arcade than Sim, and GTR2 and P&G just look like what they are: cutting edge from over 10 years ago. I love them both for sentimental reasons, but after driving AMS for a week now, I'm ruined for all the others. When I drive out of the pits at Oulton Park in the LMP2 Lola I'M THERE, Like in real life. In a previous life, I rode in the 250 class at Oulton Park, Cadwell Park and Brands, among others. They're near enough to practice for races, and funnily enough, I have trouble nailing barn corner at Cadwell in AMS, just like back then in real life . I can't wait for all the stuff that's coming to AMS in the coming weeks and months, it just keeps on getting better. I have to pose the queston: why couldn't ISI manage to do what Reiza have done? It's the same engine.....

Andy_J · Oct 6, 2016

GuitarTech said:
R3E is more Arcade than Sim,..

Do you mean that?

Or are you joking?

GuitarTech · Oct 6, 2016

Andy Jackson said:
Do you mean that? Or are you joking?

In certain respects, yes. The driving physics arn't really realistic, or at least not as realistic as AMS...Or I'm a better racer than I thought: I bought the DTM addon, and then won my first three races with Jamie Greens car. without a setup, and without qualifying. I started from the back of the grid at Spa, 'cos I'm often too lazy too drive a qualification time, and was able to fight my way through to win, after 10 laps! Three times

Man, that ain't realistic; I'm 62, with the reaction times of a garden snail,and am not Lewis Hamilton

In AMS under the same conditions, the best I've managed was 16th place after a 10 lap race, and I was bathed in sweat, and my arms and shoulders ached from fighting the wheel. R3E is very pretty, and the sounds are to die for, but in the end, it's about realism. In real life you don't have time to look and see if the grass is nice, or how the clouds are, believe me. you're too busy racing, and driving as fast as you can without falling off, or trashing the engine.
The people who complain about the graphics in AMS are driving too slowly

In the end I want to have the feeling that I'm really driving in a race, and not playing a game. For me AMS comes closer than anything else out there.Other peoples mileage may vary

ouvert · Oct 6, 2016

GuitarTech said:
In certain respects, yes. The driving physics arn't really realistic, or at least not as realistic as AMS...Or I'm a better racer than I thought: I bought the DTM addon, and then won my first three races with Jamie Greens car. without a setup, and without qualifying. I started from the back of the grid at Spa, 'cos I'm often too lazy too drive a qualification time, and was able to fight my way through to win, after 10 laps! Three times Man, that ain't realistic; I'm 62, with the reaction times of a garden snail,and am not Lewis Hamilton
In AMS under the same conditions, the best I've managed was 16th place after a 10 lap race, and I was bathed in sweat, and my arms and shoulders ached from fighting the wheel. R3E is very pretty, and the sounds are to die for, but in the end, it's about realism. In real life you don't have time to look and see if the grass is nice, or how the clouds are, believe me. you're too busy racing, and driving as fast as you can without falling off, or trashing the engine.
The people who complain about the graphics in AMS are driving too slowly In the end I want to have the feeling that I'm really driving in a race, and not playing a game. For me AMS comes closer than anything else out there.Other peoples mileage may vary

Fact that you won in r3e could just mean that AI was set too low or to adaptive setting and without qualify and practice AI didn't have time to adapt .. jumping to conclusions that physics is bad based on that is bit too harsh... So me being average fast and still beating AMS AI at 120% by two seconds means that AMS is arcade? Nope it means they need to work on MCR AI little bit. (which they are. Thx guys)
There are guys racing in real life that will yell you that r3e is in terms of car handling closest to real life. I (not real life racer) don't agree but it is far from arcade or simcade. Check your AI settings perhaps ... Or you are just 62 years old alien

David Ignjatovic · Oct 6, 2016

Jim Liak said:
I tested the Ultima.
Actually all of the new cars.
I haven't passed the 2 hour limit for the steam refund but I think that I gave more than enough time in each car.
Ultima road car was tested for 45' I think.
The other less.

Something wrong there.....g27 should be -100 ffb.
AC isn't a sim...it does drive well but lacks detail in a few key areas.

ouvert · Oct 6, 2016

David Ignjatovic said:
Something wrong there.....g27 should be -100 ffb.
AC isn't a sim...it does drive well but lacks detail in a few key areas.

In profiler it is positive value (which he is refering to) but yep in game it should be negative

GuitarTech · Oct 6, 2016

Some people here seem to think that R3E is as good as AMS, but I don't think it is. But that is my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Someone mentioned the AI: in R3E I find it hard to find the sweet spot where the AI is hard to beat, but not so aggresive that they punt you off in the corners. It could also just be that I'm incapable of setting it up properly

I'll admit that I'm impatient too: I'd rather go racing than spend all evening tweaking. I guess I'm permanently damaged from using MSFS for years and years with a computer that was always behind the curve for MSFS. I guess the only computer that can run it maxed out would be a Cray, but they're rather expensive

: hours of tweaking and testing for a half-hour flight

I find that AMS has the best AI by far of all the sims I've tried, maybe the AMS AI is more suitable for my particular driving style. Who knows? I just know that since I bought AMS, whenever I try one of the other sims instead, I have the feeling that there's something missing, but without being able to say exactly what. Does that make sense?

David Ignjatovic · Oct 6, 2016

I would run g27 at 107 in the profiler.....you can also fiddle with center spring to help eliminate deadzone.

ouvert · Oct 6, 2016

Or use min.force in AMS settings .. for dfgt it is 10-20 so for g27 I would guess around 50-60

Andy_J · Oct 6, 2016

GuitarTech said:
In certain respects, yes. The driving physics arn't really realistic, or at least not as realistic as AMS...Or I'm a better racer than I thought: I bought the DTM addon, and then won my first three races with Jamie Greens car. without a setup, and without qualifying. I started from the back of the grid at Spa, 'cos I'm often too lazy too drive a qualification time, and was able to fight my way through to win, after 10 laps! Three times Man, that ain't realistic; I'm 62, with the reaction times of a garden snail,and am not Lewis Hamilton

I take it you are talking about your first online race with RRE? Because you don't mention what AI difficulty levels you are comparing too or what driving aids you are using. To start at the back in any class with the AI set at say 110 (the setting I use the most and most comfortable) with no aids and win I'd say you are very very good because I couldn't do it, you should join us for some online club races here if the AI is too easy for you.

I'll disagree with you about the driving physics though. RRE is just as demanding as any other sim using get real mode with comparable TC or whatever. But that's my opinion of course.

ps, if you want real good AI racing that might be a challenge for you, get Rfactor 2. It has the best AI going and should be enough of a challenge for you.

Stephen O'Sullivan · Oct 6, 2016

P*Funk said:
Just to add to my comment by going off on a more sincere tangent, watching this video, its in medias res fade in with the shrill engine and the awesome speed seen, gives me chills of excitement. I feel this way because I know what its like to drive that particular car in AMS.

GTSpeedster's videos are always a treat to watch. It should be noted that he runs AMS on 3 x 42" monitors and has reduced the cockpit vibration and camera shake. His Nvidia settings, as far as I know, are: