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Sector 3 please fix the AI!

Discussion in 'RaceRoom Racing Experience' started by Sk3ptik0n, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. Sk3ptik0n

    Premium Member

    I know there is another thread going on about the AI and how their behavior on track ruins the experience of an otherwise excellent Sim.

    I really would like for a Sector 3 employee to get back to us and let us know if they are going to address these issues.

    I will try to briefly explain some of my gripes with the AI, but I want to stress this is only my experience. Others can add to it or disagree with me but this is why I dislike the R3E AI:

    1) The AI slows down at the apex of some turns. There are even cases where they apply the brakes on what essentially are full speed straights with a kink that can be taken flat out. The AI will considerably slow down at the kink, often messing up the other AI behind them. At times I am either surprised by this and plow into the car ahead, or in a race I can use it to easily pass the AI car on the inside or the outside, taking the fun out of it. I often just brake along with the AI to keep things fair, but it seems silly to me. No car slows down at or after the Apex. If it's a device to limit the AI speed according to their level, let's find another way.

    2) The AI will not avoid collisions at all. In many cases with an AI chasing, but well behind me, I may make a mistake and lose some speed. (The big parabolica at Salsburgring for example) The AI chasing me is far behind enough but starts gaining ground. Any race car driver will take that chance to pass, but the R3E AI instead behaves as if my car didn't exist. It keeps gaining ground, gets closer and closer and then instead of passing, it hits my car violently often sending both of us off track. No sane driver would do that. If nothing else because racecars are expensive. Many times, an AI will hit me and then each and every car behind us will continue hitting me and the other AI. In replays it looks like those cars are completely unaware there are obstacles ahead of them.

    3) AI seems unable to drive in traffic. The Salsburgring chicane is a case in point, but in many other tracks the AI in front of me (I often try to start either at the back or in the middle of the pack) will get in each other's way and pile up at the entrance of the chicane. Cars coming behind the mess will in turn plow into them because they are driving as if there was a clear track in front of them. If I slow down my car to try to get around, I can be assured that some car behind me is going to hit me so hard as to virtually kill me had I been in a real car.
    This is an extension of Point 2 above, but the issue is so endemic that even among the AI they are unable to try to avoid collisions.

    4) The AI are unable to drive their cars properly. Once again at Salsburgring it is almost the norm to see AI cars going fully sideways and slow down or create a crash with the cars behind them. Why? I understand that a good AI should recreate RL drivers, but then these people are idiots. You can't drive a Group 5 cars and smash the throttle in 2nd gear. If you are turning your car will go sideways and slowdown. There are times where at the entrance of high speed turns it looks like a bunch of drunk are racing. Cars will go sideways, slow down, hit each other and so forth.

    5) The AI seems oblivious to my skill when using adaptive AI. Almost every time I do a race with a new combo of car/track, I end up going much faster than the AI. Yesterday I did a race G5 at Sonoma where I qualified in pole by 2 seconds. I continued racing and by the time the 15 minute race was up I was almost 20 seconds ahead of 2nd place. I raced again later with the same combo and it was better, but still I could smoke the field without much effort. I would much prefer an AI that can recognize when they are slower than me by 2 seconds or more per lap and actually get a little faster. In a race it would be nice if they at least tried to catch up once they are 7 or more second behind and losing ground. How difficult would that be? Racing by yourself is really boring, yet when I manage to race in a group, I almost always get hit and sent mowing the lawn by some AI opponent that obviously does not pay for bodywork or wheel axles.

    In conclusion, let me reiterate that this SIM made giant leaps in becoming one of the best experiences among modern sims. The sound is tremendous, the cars and tracks very well done and the driving is really good too. The AI remains a bane. Sometime, even most of the time, they drive well and present a credible challenge, but it only takes a small tap on the back or an AI braking hard at the exit of a turn instead of pushing on the gas like anyone else would do to ruin the whole thing.

    I am getting really tired to drive on my rearview mirrors and having to avoid cars coming from behind that hit me as if I weren't there to begin with.

    Can you guys do something about it?


    I forgot another infuriating aspect of the AI. Try out braking an AI before a chicane or any tight corner. 9 times of of 10 you can be assured that the same car you have just passed will hit you and turn you around. It simply doesn't pay to race the AI with a natural racing strategy. You have to find a way to pass them that does not leave them any opportunity to crash into your car.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  2. James Nance

    James Nance
    I like Race cars? Premium Member

    Ive seen various AI fixes in the pipeline, from fixing there speed in the Salzburgring chicane to rebalancing the AI behavior for various car classes and tracks. The issues are so spread out, so its gonna take time for them to all be addressed and perfected but they are working on it. Thats all I can say for now.
  3. Justin Davis

    Justin Davis
    Premium Member

    100% agree.

    I don't want to sound like I'm over exaggerating, but the single player at the moment is unplayable for me. The way the AI shunts you just drains any semblance of fun out of it.

    On top of that the collision system is bonkers. The SLIGHTEST tap will send me wildly out of control. Even if I GENTLY nudge an AI from behind, I spin out.

    Everybody swears this AI is the greatest, but I just do not agree. Yes, they're FAST, which is good, but that's only half the battle. They make no attempt to avoid you, and if you have a bad corner the AI will ruin your race...
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Maybe differ a lot depending on series. Maybe as a guideline it´s better to stick to the experiences?

    I have had huge success with AI at ADAC Masters but trying GR5 the AI is really slow. I do 43s with most cars at Zandvoort did a 41,9 with the Capri but the AI is really nowhere in pace. I bet the guys that really know these cars are well into the 30s it´s not like I feel I am getting even close to the max out of these cars yet.

    AI will never be perfect but try ADAC Masters 2014? That AI is incredible. Make sense that they try to get this AI right first then the rest.
  5. Jay Ekkel

    Jay Ekkel
    Kylotonn Games

    there are various fixes, tweaks and upgrades coming to the AI in the upcoming patches. They are dubbed "smooth operator" internally, as it make racing with the AI a real treat.

    As you mention they are having some issue right now and with some classes having the updated the physics, the AI kinda lost its bearing
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  6. Thanks Jay...we appreciate what you guys do. Looking forward to the update.
  7. MentalTM

    Premium Member

    thanks for the reply Jay. Great game and keep up the good work
  8. That really is great news. Because I'm not very good at setups, it's hard for me to race online. I don't bug people for setups, so I do my best, then drive as best I can with what I have. But I constantly find myself moving off the line to let a faster driver through. If I do happen to stumble upon a decent setup, I'm more competitive. With AI, I can race mid pack or at /near the front (depending on class) with AI set to105. I'm getting better. However, I find I have to corner off the racing line to avoid being shunted. So, great news indeed.
    The AI in my opinion is still better than the AI in another sim. AI passing AI or human player is an extreme challenge for them. Sometimes they don't even bother.
  9. Cheesenium

    Premium Member

    Thank you Jay for the AI updates. The AI can be quite a pain to race with at times which I hope it will be fixed soon.
  10. NIce. Looking forward to the new AI. They weren't really driveable before.

    Any news on if auto ai will adjust differently than before? Not just in races but intra-session like practices, qualifying, per-lap, etc.?
  11. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser
    DC Premium Member

    ADAC championship (Zandvoort)....I'm 4 seconds faster than the AI (I don't know this track).
    - I gain 1.5 seconds, just from the final turn until the end of the straightaway.
    - I get punted off the track from behind three times in one lap.
    - Last lap, I get punted off the track from behind at the end of the front straight. Game crashes.
    - I keep running into the back of AI when they brake at unexpected places, spinning ME out.
    - When an accident occurs, they don't drive around the accident, they just stop.
    Redbullring (I'm 6 seconds faster than AI)
    - AI brakes in the middle of the straightaway while I am trying to draft them. "I" spin out.
    Its like driving with 18 trolls. :roflmao: Gotta love it.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Keith Dixon

    Keith Dixon
    Premium Member

    Turn off adaptive and increase their strength until they match your times, then run a few practice sessions with them and you should see them improve, I run them at 110%, I can out qualify them by a small margin there and get a pretty good race out of them at that pace, just give them enough space to settle in on the first lap and their good to go, their not perfect by any means but their a damn sight better than some of the AI out there
  13. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser
    DC Premium Member

    Didn't know that. Thanks!!!

    I was thinking....maybe the current pace of adaptive AI is actually good - to accommodate casual gamers. It's how they are achieving their pace that is the problem.
    Today, I was punted off 16 times. That didn't help either. I'll give manual control a try.
  14. I enjoy the ai a lot...especially compared to most games out there.

    Still needs some tweeking, but close to being really good. imo
  15. Keith Dixon

    Keith Dixon
    Premium Member

    They are over aggressive without a doubt and a bit dumb on that first lap out but nail it and you get a good time with them, it's all about being aware and showing the patience on the overtakes, I posted a vid of the GT3's the other day on my channel from Sachsenring that gives an idea of what I'm on about

  16. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser
    DC Premium Member

    After 8 races against the adaptive AI, I'm adjusting.

    Dive bombing AI - drive a wider line through turns.

    I can deal with aggressive starts. At least I have the rest of the race to chase them down. It's the last lap dive bombs that hurt me twice (punted off the track). Plus with 180kg (now 210kg) the car tends to be abit more sensitive to the banging.
  17. Agree first corner always tough...and dumb
  18. Azfalt Raser

    Azfalt Raser
    DC Premium Member

    I'm having the opposite experience. Was trying to train AI running single races.
    All races: ADAC Corvette GT3/RedBull ring. Starting position 24th (last)

    - AI needs to be just as unstable as us. If I ram them the way they ram me, even in a straight line, I end up spinning.
    - They recover from spins, from gravel traps much faster. That needs to be adjusted.
    - Avoidance needs to be programmed into AI. If a driver rammed the same opponent off the track, twice, he/she would be disqualified. I wasn't talking about love taps, I'm talking about major impacts from behind.

    Race 1: gentle 1:32 laptimes. trying to conserve my tires. I win by 38 seconds.
    Race 2: again 1:32 laptimes. I win by 48 or more seconds. I lap the last 3 cars.
    Race 3: Finish 23rd. It's competitive now. I get rammed off the track mid pack. Barely able to catch last place car who promply punts me off the track......TWICE.
    Winning AI does last lap of 1:31:3.

    Race 4: I'm doing 1:30 laptimes now. I'm up to 11th. I'm door handle to door handle between turn 1 and turn 2 - middle of the track. AI PUSHES me off the right side of the track, driving down the straightaway. I'm full lock - pushing back. But AI car is glued to the road. Finish 24th.

    I'm averaging 3 off course excursions a race, just from being hit from behind while driving faster laptimes - substantial hits.

    Something just isn't right yet. :O_o:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Msportdan

    @ Simberia @Simberia

    think the AIs bad try pcars,, then you will realise the RRe ai isn't bad at all.. probably 3 behind GSC and RF2.
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  20. Keith Dixon

    Keith Dixon
    Premium Member

    I trained them in practice sessions, intially running 3 to 4 secs quicker than them then within a couple of sessions they were within tenths of me and I don't make contact unless something drastic happens I just back off and wait for a better opportunity, I run high 28's low 29's at Redbull and they match me pretty well at the front end of the field, but like I said they aint perfect be interesting to see what fix's they bring out, and same applys to Pcars AI Dan, I've had several good races with them just today, give them the space and drive smart and their not to bad, need work but not bad, certainly better than AC's anyway
    • Haha Haha x 1