Sebastian Vettel

So everything that he does shows that he is superior than everybody in everything. Is that what you are trying to say?
Becasue I don't get how trying to get a senseless fastest lap when the race is practically over for him and he just needs to cruise home (of course he only does this when the gap in front and behind him are big enough) is showing strategic power, mental toughness or supreme condition....

I'm srry but I think you are the typical fanboy who can't see things objective. At leaste when it comes to Vettel.
 
I disagree. Vettel is really good, but I just cant put him in the same class as Alonso, Kimi or Hamilton. Give him one of them as teammates, and I'm sure he would be outclassed. Webber is not good enough, so Vettel's pace is somewhat flattered by his teammate.

He's a top driver of course, but certainly not the best on the grid.
I can keep him along side Hamilton but Alonso and Kimi are still ahead of them in my view.
 
I disagree. Vettel is really good, but I just cant put him in the same class as Alonso, Kimi or Hamilton. Give him one of them as teammates, and I'm sure he would be outclassed. Webber is not good enough, so Vettel's pace is somewhat flattered by his teammate.

He's a top driver of course, but certainly not the best on the grid.

And i think he can totally outclass either Hamilton Alonso or Button and even Kimi

Vettel had brought RBR to what it is. They started winning since he joined. I believe the team is building around its drivers. It was no miracle Ferrari were bad 2007 - 2008 and 2009

Alonso came they are maybe not the fastest but they build stable and constant car since Kimi departure.

Mercedes with Hamilton too i believe will work now better even that Schumacher work will be seen this year.

What i was saying about Vettel that he is great in what he did, are you trying to say that 88 in Monaco for Senna was another that stupid moment? Stupid maybe or of course it was, but he proved something there. You don't see the reason behind. In his purpose. Senna was leading 40 seconds and he was going like mad. Does anyone approves that? Everyone knows that as one of the greatest moments in Senna's career. But he failed. But he was GREAT for what he was going for! I appreciate that, i appreciate what Vettel did.

"You need to have the skill and the will but the will must be stronger than the skill" - Senna words

He had guts doing it.

That anyone would have outclassed Vettel... put it this way. Would have anyone from Alonso Hamilton Button or Kimi succeed in delivering 2011 the way Vettel did? We might never find out but in the characters i see that is simply impossible! Hamilton cannot drive smart. Alonso cannot go without silly mistakes or pointing fingers at someone. Kimi doesnt listen orders, and i love that, not that he doesnt follow but he insist on leaving him alone to concentrate, whatsoever he is too stuborn sometimes, like Europe 2005. Button...he is good he is smart he knows what he is doing but he is not fast enough on more occasions. He was struggling even with Baricelo half season and then he was driving with ease.

Ferrari this year had FANTASTIC car towards the end of the season, but only when it comes to the race! On raw pace they were too slow, and that was the only disadvantage. In race i think they had worked twice more good than any other on the tires. They were very strong.
Also, all season i was talking how Alonso was not that great but Massa was bad.
Can you everyone agree that Massa after the tragic accident is different? Thats when drivers mentality, awarned of his own mortality influences his laps and races? He said he worked with psyhologist and towards the end he came back. And what we saw ? He outpaced Alonso lol
Thats how great Alonso is really ?
Ferrari sabotaging Massa on purpose so he could have bigger chances? The team once i loved only cause of Schumi and 2007 cheered for them only cause he lived with Ferrari and now i have even 3x4m flag in my room, i was somehow sad about it. Ferrari its a great team but they did things like this. And i can be mad cause i love Vettel, but if he was driving for Ferrari then i would have been happy. So i don't really think i can say that it is right or wrong, morally, for Alonso to succeed they did the right thing. But its just about that Alonso was slow.

You all guys can say whatever and have your own opinions i respect that and i am not trying to convince you otherwise just saying. Big driver won't complain to another if he didn' let him pass so he could have fought for the title :) Abu Dhabi Alonso VS Petrov 2010

He can point out about several mistakes in the middle of the season or someone blocking him ignorin blue flags but waving fingers towards Petrov for fighting with him was absolutley shamefull for a driver of the caliber of Alonso is. I respect him and Hamilton and Button and Kimi but they are just level behind Vettel. Vettel is different. 3 titles in a row don't come just like that.

There are some that turn the ball on the other side and saying that it is cause of the car. You all really think it was about the car? If it was about the car 2011 would have been repeated. Thats what happenes when he get superior car, which it wasnt the case for sure in 2012. And when it comes to them, Alonso had better car in 2010 and yet he lost. So ... i dont see in what really Alonso is greater than Vettel EXCEPT in one thing, that he is twice experienced than him.
 
And i think he can totally outclass either Hamilton Alonso or Button and even Kimi
[...]
That anyone would have outclassed Vettel... put it this way. Would have anyone from Alonso Hamilton Button or Kimi succeed in delivering 2011 the way Vettel did?
I'd say they all would have scored even more points.
We might never find out but in the characters i see that is simply impossible! Hamilton cannot drive smart.
Neither can Vettel when he's battling someone (that's the only time Hamilton doesn't drive smart - and even then only rarely). And frankly, you don't even need to drive smart when you start from pole and your car is half a second faster than everything else on the circuit. And unlike Vettel, Hamilton probably would have gotten pole every single race.
Alonso cannot go without silly mistakes or pointing fingers at someone.
Silly mistakes? Is this really Alonso you're talking about? He's close to flawless. And how does the finger-pointing affect his driving? Plus, no need to point fingers when you drive the best car.
Kimi doesnt listen orders, and i love that, not that he doesnt follow but he insist on leaving him alone to concentrate, whatsoever he is too stuborn sometimes, like Europe 2005.
And Vettel is never stubborn? If anything, it's one of his biggest weaknesses.
Button...he is good he is smart he knows what he is doing but he is not fast enough on more occasions. He was struggling even with Baricelo half season and then he was driving with ease.
Button is the best driver if the car is perfect, but can't compete with the top when it isn't. The RB7 however was perfect.

Ferrari this year had FANTASTIC car towards the end of the season, but only when it comes to the race!
Even on race pace, the car was nowhere near the RB and McLaren. Just look at the race in Austin (last relatively clean race). The Ferraris finished almost half a lap down on the leaders.
In race i think they had worked twice more good than any other on the tires. They were very strong.
Towards the end of the season, the tyres were almost irrelevant. They easily lasted the entire race, for all teams.

Also, all season i was talking how Alonso was not that great but Massa was bad.
Can you everyone agree that Massa after the tragic accident is different? Thats when drivers mentality, awarned of his own mortality influences his laps and races? He said he worked with psyhologist and towards the end he came back. And what we saw ? He outpaced Alonso lol
Towards the end of the season, the upgrades Ferrari brought to the races barely worked anymore and often times, they made the car slower. Ironically, it was Alonso who got them ;)
You all guys can say whatever and have your own opinions i respect that and i am not trying to convince you otherwise just saying. Big driver won't complain to another if he didn' let him pass so he could have fought for the title:)Abu Dhabi Alonso VS Petrov 2010
Yeah Vettel would never do that. Like, after the Austin GP, complaining about Narain Kartikeyan. Vettel is a great driver, but he's an incredibly bad loser. Check any race 2010 where he finished behind Webber. Or any time he gets a penalty. Or when he doesn't get pole in qualifying even though the car was fast enough. Or....
You all really think it was about the car? If it was about the car 2011 would have been repeated. Thats what happenes when he get superior car, which it wasnt the case for sure in 2012.
The car wasn't the fastest, but it was the best. The McLaren was usually a bit faster, but not reliable enough. The Ferrari was more reliable, but way too slow. Often times, it was even slower than the Lotus.
And when it comes to them, Alonso had better car in 2010 and yet he lost.
:roflmao:
Seriously? The RB6 enjoyed an even greater margin over every other car than the RB7. How can you honestly think that the Ferrari was better?
 
:roflmao: Ferrari slower than RB in 2010 ?! :roflmao:

MAYBE but twice more reliable, it was Alonso who made silly mistakes :) that is on what i was referring to in the post above yours. I recall reading f1 post that italians are angry over alonso for his stupid errors and while he could succeed in taking them (which vettel would have done it better) he would have been champion but he lost to strong character of vettel that is fact.

While Vettel argued about Kartikhyan or not doesnt matter, it was lapped car and barely changing anything. But for Alonso? In direct duel he pointed fingers to Petrov. Please dont try to say that it is equal :roflmao: its just shameful

Half of the things you replied to me are true, half you missed the point half on which i can barely agree

however like for the detailed reply , tnx
 
Thank you Markus, i was about to dive in but thankfully someone else presented a reality check.

I can´t even begin to describe what Nando, Hamilton or Kimi would have done in the RB7..
Hamilton would take every pole position there could ever be.
Alonso would win every single race there could ever be.
Kimi would probably do a bit of both there as he´s so consistent it´s insane.
 
That's pretty much exactly what I am thinking. I was just to lazy to type und quote. Thankfully you did it :laugh:

The only "silly" mistakes I remember form Alonso in 2010 was in Belgium and Monaco. Maybe GB but that's more a team error imo.
However there are far more errors I remember from Vettel than 2 or 3.

Since Fernando is at Ferrari he achives the maximum in nearly every race no matter if his car is superior (which wasn't the case often), equal or inferior. He is always there.
At least that's what I call flawless, intelligent or superior driving.

While Vettel argued about Kartikhyan or not doesnt matter, it was lapped car and barely changing anything. But for Alonso? In direct duel he pointed fingers to Petrov. Please dont try to say that it is equal :roflmao: its just shameful
I don't see any diffrence there. But if you do: what about Hungary 2010, Germany 2012, Abu Dhabi 2012 (during SC), Turkey 2010.....


Don't get me wrong. Vettel is a great driver, but I don't see him on the same step as Hamilton or Alonso and he is by far not that superior to everybody in every aspect than you are telling
 
Dusko Avramovski Mate Vettel is a Great Driver no one deny that but he was not the Best Atleast for now.
Alonso was far more consistent and best driver then comes a battle between Kimi and Lewis for 2nd and Vettel currently stays third.
In 2012 Vettel some times Gives a supreme race but then again he looks like ordinary for the next race making silly mistakes. He really needs to eliminate them.
I agree with him being a Bad loser but in one way it was good. As he never wants to loose. He will always try be ahead of others.
But also lets not forget he was just only 25. Even if we take out the 3 WDC's he was still a bench mark for the Young drivers. So we need to give him some years to be Best.
 
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