Season 9 Race 2 SPA 2008 Incident Report

[Peter Marshall]

Don’t see replay yet but...
I Made Peter slow down after mistake and rejoin track ( dejavuu ) ) and saw him spin at mirror, Sorry for that, need check replay for details.

I think perhaps you may have mistaken me for Anthony? See David's video above.

Thank you anyway mate.

 

[Eliezer Bartik]

I think perhaps you may have mistaken me for Anthony? See David's video above.

Thank you anyway mate.

Yep you right ( didnt see repaly yet ) my apologise to Anthony made him get to that situation. I tried to leave room there as saw U closing

 

[David Turnbull]

i dont get that i was in too much of a hurry at all, i wasnt trying a pass on anthony there, i was too far back, i saw eliezer in the distance, anthony went for his inside line, as eliezer has stated he gave him the room and stayed outside, anthony then stated he didnt pass eliezer there as he thought it was unsafe even when eliezer had left him room for it, i was caught out by this so i lifted off throttle which is clear in the video, obviously in my replay as you can see there was no contact and id backed out at the right time, before the point where i closed on him fast there was a gap of about 0.2 between us. im sorry anthony but this has been a sync issue, you can clearly see on my replay theres no contact and i didnt feel any at the time, hence why i drove on thinking nothing had happened.

nico, i was alot faster out of stavelot and carried the speed, we were side by side on the run up to blanchimont from the kink in the straight, you yielded position, i dont see the problem here or impatience either, we were side by side i was inside you yielded, thats the way its supposed to work in an overtakin move, regardless of what corner it is that we're approaching, there was no contact and wasnt likely to be contact between us as both of us knew the boundaries of the move i was trying.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

There was nothing wrong with your pass on me David, I just mentioned it, because not too many would be bald (or is it bold?) enough to pass on the inside of Blanchemont... it was kind of like Kimi's pass on Michael at the foot of Eau Rouge (or Webber on Alonso the same place last year), you need two experienced drivers to pull it off.

I saw you were close but thought, he will not try anything here, then I suddenly noticed on the timer that you were 0,020 behind me, and then I suddenly realised that you had to be on my inside. I didn't want to risk my race going side by side so I lifted and went wide.

Also, I have not studied the video, so I can very well be wrong about the Anthony incident.

The only reason why I said what I said is that I was thinking what Anthony said before he said it, that you seemed to be "in a hurry" as you passed me quickly, then you were at Nicolas' tail, and a lap later he lost control and you were ahead of him as well, and then moments later you made a mistale and I was ahead of you again.

To underline, i am not claiming u did anything wrong david, just sharing my thoughts from when I was driving And our "battles" I enjoyed very much (as always) David

 

[David Turnbull]

no problem nico, i thought as youd mentioned it here you were meaning it to be an incident of sorts, i get you now.

i only tried passes i was confident i could pull off last night, or should i say pull them off with only risk involved to myself and not others, im always confident driving round about you nico as i know you can handle the car and situation, i was further back than ive been for a long time and it threw me off slightly, but on the other hand i had one of my most rewarding races of presto so far, gaining the amount of positions i did with no incidents (sync issues aside) made me want to start from the back more often (hopefully not monza though).

im really sorry for anthonys problems though, i really didnt think anything had happened at the time, the sync issue rears its ugly head again

p.s im not quite bald yet, so yeah its bold

 

[Kurt Kjellin]

TS: 1780

One small incident when lapping Kurt. I had closed up to him into Rivage (slow right hander). I had good grip because of the fresh tyres, so I wanted to go next to him, leaving the turn on the inside. I think Kurt also wanted to go to the right as soon as possible to give me a perfect exit and maybe the next left hander(?). Due to this missunderstanding I slightly tapped kurts right rear wheel when he "closed the door".

From my point of view I was too much in a hurry, so I'm very sorry for "pushing" you out of my way. Should have waited only two more corners until the straight starts. It looked like you could go on unhurt and without loosing much time, right? But anyway I'm guilty. Sorry mate!

Otherwise no incidents.

No problem Reik. The push was was so small so I had to look at replayen to remember. Watching the replay, I see that I wobble a bit so I'm probably a little guilty too. No damage, stayed on the track, and minimal loss of time. NP

 

[Vincenzo Cavaliere]

I didn't see replay yet, I think no incident to report

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

i did with no incidents (sync issues aside)

My point is that I believe it was an avoidable incident. We know that there are sync issues with Tim, Peter and in particular Anthony, and therefore we need to keep a bigger distance to them.

I do not mean to point the finger at David, what I want is for everybody to note and remember that you do not stay too close to a car prone to lag and sync issues. If you want to get past, plan it ahead and keep your distance until ready to strike.

 

[David Turnbull]

my point is it was an avoided incident, on my screen i avoided him, no contact then drove on, i felt my lift into the corner was enough to avoid the incident with anthony maybe in hindsight id have left more room but i can only go with what i see on my screen, as soon as i dont believe whats on my screen it gets like minority report and id be as well punishing myself for things that might happen.

point noted though

 

[Dino Paolini]

q: I had a slight cut in my qualifying lap at Stavelot or Fagne(?) (not sure which one that corner is); it might have happened too at some point in the race at this place, I'm sorry for that.

r: no incidents

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Yeah, giving our distant runners a bit of extra space is not bad since they have 18 cars on the grid lagging, they need to do it all the time..

 

[Anthony Ishak]

im sorry anthony but this has been a sync issue, you can clearly see on my replay theres no contact and i didnt feel any at the time, hence why i drove on thinking nothing had happened.
.

No Problem David, all good now, this sounds a friendlier approach talking about the incident than the previous one.
Incidents happen and we do not get stuck there and now i see the sync issue in your video so this incident is behind me now and i am moving on to enjoy the next race .

just to add that it was a 50-50 call for me that Elizer was aware of me being next to him and with Nicos safety request ringing in my ears so the wiser thing to do at that moment was to go for the safer option that he might not have seen me there , and my point was why to raise the bar of risk by placing a third car there in the middle of the mix especially as you could see in your video that a lag is a very common issue for us over here even though i / we have the fastest internet option available in Australia and with the race pace you had at that moment it could have been better off for all of us to keep some safety margin until the order has been sorted out and go for the fun by trying again at the next turn.
All the best at Monza

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

ouch

 

[David Turnbull]

sorry about that anthony, i didnt mean for the first post to sound like that, i got a bit defensive at the time thinking i was being blamed for something i clearly hadnt done (in my view obviously) sync issues never crossed my mind until id made a video and with the discussion here, when i made comment about the connection issues i was a bit annoyed so shouldnt have posted until the next day after seeing all the replay and video, sorry again.

 

[David Turnbull]

ouch

did you bang your head on the way into this thread?

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

David, if this video is taken from your computer, I cannot comprehend that you did not notice that Anthony spun. I think you must have suppressed it, or you have tunnel vision. But that is not the point, what I wish is that we identify how this can be prevented in the future.

For me it boils down to two questions:
1) Were you aware that Anthony was the car ahead of you (in addition to Eliezer)
2) Are you aware of the sync issue with Anthony which is always present?

I can promis you that it is highly unlikely that I would cause such an incident. The reson is that I have learned the lesson many seasons ago. If I have Tim, Peter or Anthony ahead of me I keep a larger distance, especially in areas where the car moves much. I wish for you and everybody else to instantly absorb that lesson.

In my view David, considering your experience, that incident was 100% your fault and can not be blamed on a sync issue that we know are there.

Lastly, remember that I am not interested in placing blame, but solving the incident. Unfortunatly this involves placing blame which makes the whole process much harder.

 

[Henrik Jordfald Olsen]

Here is video from my 1st incident at 2nd lap.
Andy Paries crashes into me.
I get aero and suspension damage that severely decreases my speed.
I will not fix it until lap 14, but yet another incident after this (will post later) causes even more damage.

Just a small test, but shows incident from other views.

 

[David Turnbull]

i dont see anywhere where ive said i didnt notice anthony spin, and yes its taken from my computer, im also not blind and dont have tunnel vision, i saw anthony spin but as you can see from the cockpit view in my replay vid i dont touch him, i thought he had put the power on too early and spun so i drove on.

i was aware anthony was the car infront, and regards the sync issues ive spoken to sean the last few days since this happened and he gets lag problems with diffrent people i do, example peter marshall i dont and dont suffer sync problems with him but sean sees him lagging on track, i suffer them with tim more i see him lagging on track, anthony ive never had a problem with but thats probably because weve never had much more than fleeting glimpses of each other in a race, what im saying here is that obviously peter is in the same country as anthony and tim but i dont get problems with peter and have never had problems with anthony up till now so i really didnt expect a sync issue.

like you say im 100% to blame for this, if id known at the time it was a sync issue and id actually hit anthony id have waited for him to regain his place like is presto custom, but i seriously didnt think i had hit him at the time.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

i dont see anywhere where ive said i didnt notice anthony spin, and yes its taken from my computer, im also not blind and dont have tunnel vision, i saw anthony spin but as you can see from the cockpit view in my replay vid i dont touch him, i thought he had put the power on too early and spun so i drove on.

In forum conversation the transmission rate is around 75%,

I appolegise, I didn't consider the fact that you thought he spun on his own. In hindsight my words seems ill chosen and provocative

I think the content of Kennett's think tank supports this; consider all aussie cars suseptable for lag/sync issues at all times. On straights or predictable long sweeping corners etc. they mey appear smooth, but the fact remains that the signal has to travel about 40000 km, and it is not possible to avoid sync issues when there are rappid changes in direction and speed/acceleration.

This fact have been clear for me for a long time, therefore, when I look at your video, it is very obvious for me that you are doing something very risky.

EDIT: The inside (where Eliezer was) is probably the safest spot to be if I understand Kennett's thread correctly.

 

[David Turnbull]

ive learned my lesson believe me ill be giving room to the aussies, but it makes it difficult if fighting for position with say tim for example, when your fighting for positions and nobody wants to yield like what happened with me and tim at hungary i was bounced off track, what id like to know is when does it become a two way street to avoid sync issues as apposed to always the guy whos closer to the server?.