Season 9 Race 1 Hungaroring - Preperation thread

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Hm the rules say we only have soft, medium and hard tyres.

I was not aware of this? Can you point me to where it sais this so I can correct it? It is as Kennett sais, no limitations in regards of tyres.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

I was not aware of this? Can you point me to where it sais this so I can correct it? It is as Kennett sais, no limitations in regards of tyres.

Information:

Tires​

There are no regulations on who often a compound has to be used.​

Dry Tires​

There are three available compounds for dry conditions,​

Soft, Medium and Hard Tires.​

Notice that with the current league format Hard Tires have a disadvantage over the other two compounds, so it's recommended to always use Soft and Medium Tires in normal dry conditions.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

So just for the record - no refueling strategy, doesn't work at all The car is so freaking heavy with 150 L the tyres overheat, even mediums, it's like I was driving on ice and I was some 3 seconds per lap slower than Anthony.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Yup, two stop with refuel on both is the basic tactic. Only on some track no refuel works, Monaco was fastest with first refuel skipped and was the only place where one stop was really possible. You can stand to loose 1 second from target to get shorter pitstops, it's not accurate but i found it to be close enough to estimate tactic differences. Also the difference between 1/3 and 1/2 full tank (from the total fuel used in race ) is closer, fellows like me who aren't so fast in qualy can enjoy smaller drops in racepace. The faster your qualy run is, the more fuel weight and tire compounds add to your race laptime, logical stuff.

What you can do is to put more fuel at the beginning and calculating a tactic that has shorter refuel or skips the first one. There's no way to skip the second and with 5l/s refuel rate, hard to justify carry-over fuel left in the tank for the second stint. It's unfortunate to have such limitations for race tactic, we did some adjustments to race length, maybe we get one stop more often.. It can't be co-incidence that IRL F1 team uses two-stop as a default tactic...

Fuel calculations are easy because everyone has very similar fuel useage and practically no deviations between length of the stops, basically every one has the same time reserved for refuel. Without refuel you get 15s stops with total time lost in the 20-25s range, not far from real life. One thing is sad that no one can start with a light car, everybody crams the maximum amount possible at the start, ie 1/3 to 1/2 full tanks. Would be nice to have the "same tires in qualy and race" tire compound rule too but can't be enforced...

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Basically 150 L are enough for a whole race so I was a bit surprised that it's allowed to refuel here

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I think it's just because the first stint would be a murder.. And last season i think there were races where full tank didn't make it... Plus hard to reinforce the rule with out modding the mod.

Everyone should make one evening devoted to tactics, drive those options that are not viable. Later you'll don't need to to them anymore but at least somekind of feeling is needed. Put 1/3 of racefuel and drive with all compounds, preferably you run out of fuel (you'lll get the max distance, varies between compounds, not really important but good to know..). The put 1/2 and do the same. Then few laps with full tank, it really is not viable tactic so no need to go so far. The info you'll mostly get is the difference in attrition and laptimes with full tank plus a good feel of maximum weights, reference point... Full tank and cold hard tires need to experienced at least once.

What i experienced during this break was while doing the track inspections, i happened to have a fortunate accident: i lost both wings without suspensions damage! Drivign this mod with body&diffuser aero only was an eye opener. The car has really massive amounts of downforce created in the floor, the difference between wings 1/1 and 0/0 is thin...

The reminds me: i did last season a test circuit trackpack: http://Cream.Galleria.fi/BTB/Tracks/PrestoTest/PrestoTest_1.0_by_CreamK.zip

It has different circles, skidpans, straights (uphill, downhill and flat) etc. From there i took few MoTec logging session, basically what it told was that wing 1 front and wing 4 back is the theoretical limit, rear tires lose more grip than what increasing the wing angle would add drag. Also about 4 clicks in the rear makes up 1 click in the front. Not a stone set rule, +1 front wing = ~4-5 rear seems to correct aero balance. I made a lengthy post last season, there are the values... need to find it and copy paste..

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Basically 150 L are enough for a whole race so I was a bit surprised that it's allowed to refuel here

That's not always the case, Hungaroring is a slow and low fuel consumption track. Also, they stopped refueling in F1 due to costs and safety, neither is a concern here (In general we want the rules to be as simple as possible, a minimum of restrictions.)

Also, I believe it is easier to control a car with 50-0 kg of fuel than 150-0 kg. (we do not wish to make the challenge harder than it already is).

Lastly, it spices up strategy

 

[Jonas Lex]

Information:

Tires​

There are no regulations on who often a compound has to be used.​

Dry Tires​

There are three available compounds for dry conditions,​

Soft, Medium and Hard Tires.​

Notice that with the current league format Hard Tires have a disadvantage over the other two compounds, so it's recommended to always use Soft and Medium Tires in normal dry conditions.

Sorry that was my fault I simply forgot about them
thanks for pointing out and its corrected now.
Also if we are talking about tires, can someone confirm that these values are correct?

Intermediate Tires​

Inters are recommended between a track wetness of 75% (mid Light-Rain Conditions) and 85% (starting Heavy-Rain Conditions).​

Heavy Wet Tires​

Heavy Wets are recommended from a track wetness of 85% on.​

​

​

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

The numbers do not look correct to me.

For me, if I remember correctly, it is (very rough numbers):
Slicks: 0-30
Inters: 35-65
Wets: 70-100

I know there are different opinions out there about this, my rule of thumb is considering that the car must not be to hard to control.

EDIT: There can easily be confusion over the values. You see, the conditions in the weather file range from 0-100, where it starts raining at around 70, and 100 is max rain. However, our telemetry measures on- and off-track wetness, and although these values also range from 0-100, zero is the only totally dry value.

It is the latter values (on- and off-track wetness) I am talking about.

 

[Jonas Lex]

The numbers do not look correct to me.

For me, if I remember correctly, it is (very rough numbers):
Slicks: 0-30
Inters: 35-65
Wets: 70-100

I know there are different opinions out there about this, my rule of thumb is considering that the car must not be to hard to control.

EDIT: There can easily be confusion over the values. You see, the conditions in the weather file range from 0-100, where it starts raining at around 70, and 100 is max rain. However, our telemetry measures on- and off-track wetness, and although these values also range from 0-100, zero is the only totally dry value.

It is the latter values (on- and off-track wetness) I am talking about.

Ok, the reason Im asking is that these numbers are from Reiks graph and I can remember having read before that they are a bit older.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Ok, the reason Im asking is that these numbers are from Reiks graph and I can remember having read before that they are a bit older.

I think the graph is directed at the weather file, not the on and off track wetness, as explained in the edit of my post These values are only interesting when constructing the weather.

 

[Reik Major]

Nico is right!!!

My experiences are all about the humidity values in the weather.txt file (called "conditions").

They have nothing to do with the percentage values for wetness, which are given by different telemetry tools. I have no clue about those wetness values from telemetry tools, because I use XD overlay, which just shows "H" for humid, "W" for wet and "A" for aqua planing.

So for giving an idea which tyres to use in which conditions, I'd recommend only to use descriptions like "slicks will still work up to light rain" or so but I wouldn't mind using values as long as you can't refere to an exact telemetry tool (if you can, your experiences are very welcome).

About tyre information:
The new drivers should be told, that they are allowed to use all compounds the game/mod offers at each stage of the race. In addition, just to give them an idea what to do, the information could look like this: "Since the last rules changes (race length/no pit speed limit) the majority of drivers uses softs or mediums depending on the different tyre wear at the different tracks. But also gambling with longer stints on hards or shorter stints on super softs can be an option."

 

[Jonas Lex]

Good that I asked, thx for the info Nico and Reik, I will then probably edit the post as Reik mentioned without values, could someone then give me correct descriptions like ("Inters are recommended between mid Light-Rain Conditions and starting Heavy-Rain Conditions") or something like that because I dont have any sources for that.

And also a question about the tirewear, isnt it that the hard tires have a disadvantage over the other three compounds if you compare speed with tirewear, in other words do you not have a automatic disadvantage when using them?
Because it seems that there have been good results with using supersofts in one stint but all tries to use hard times seem to have been a mess and then I probably wouldnt add to the info to gamble with them.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

To be honest my overview of tyre use is much more spesific, and if I was new I would prefer that. Reik use telemetry that gives little information, I use one that gives spesific information. It is my view that many were on the "wrong tyres" in the wet races last season.

There is nothing special with the hard tyres. The tendency is that softer tyres gives the fastest race time, but including strategy all compounds can come into use. I know that hard tyres were used last season, and at Hungaroring I cannot rule out that medium compound is optimal.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Yep meds are the best tyres but softs are pretty good too. Lately I found how I should drive to keep lefts from overheating and that is very good. Now I can do a whole stint on softs which gives some advantage. My problem is because I'm new to this game I have no idea when to use inters or wets and I have no practice on a wet track. If the race is wet it's gonna be really hard I guess.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Well, the first race I think we'll do in the dry anyway. Further more you'll find that racing in the wet is not that hard, but everybody will be further away from an "optimal lap" as we have limited preperations in these conditions. It is like the preperation time becomes slightly less significant, and the general race talent more important

When you should consider inters and wet tyres can easily be decided from my post above in combination with e.g. real time telemetry (or session info before the race start).

For me, if I remember correctly, it is (very rough numbers):
Slicks: 0-30
Inters: 35-65
Wets: 70-100

Also, if it is likely we'll have a wet race we usually open a few servers with different wetness values for people to find the threshold seperating the compounds.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

OK. Are the wet tyres more durable than dry ones?

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I do not have exact duration data, but I think they last about the same length in their respective conditions, I think they wear similar to softs in dry. If the conditions are too dry for the compound they will overheat and wear quickly. If the conditions are too wet for the compound you will not get heat in them, but I do not think they wear faster in such a case.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

I F1 2011 if your inters or wets start to overheat you go the wet part of the track and they cool down like IRL. I think this is simulated here too, right?

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I F1 2011 if your inters or wets start to overheat you go the wet part of the track and they cool down like IRL. I think this is simulated here too, right?

Correct, there are 2 values, on and off path. As long as it is raining, these are the same, but when it stops raining, the on-path (racing line) dries much quicker than off path. However, these conditions can be tricky, as on path can be suitable for slicks, but if you get off the racing line it is slippery as... something