Season 8 Race2 Silverston Incident Report

[Gaetano Zizzo]

I begin by Saying That I am not pointing the finger at anyone
That this is my personal opinion based on my experience old are youdriving
nico dear, I do not know you have seen from theraplay Whichangle of contact, but I think if there is guilt on my part isreallyminimal! I'm starting in the grid and then 7 from the leftside of the track and clear That I can just go and try to tightentheinternal apex of the curves, and despite what I've done thecurves so as to give space to Those who Were then my insideright asyou can see from the video too raplaycarefullyabbondandemente was out of the optimal trajectoryWhich is the darkest part of the asphalt where the grip andGreater!
starting from the first corner you see that I'm thoroughlybeforeEliezer has at least one macchna before HIM, of allpossible angles I Considered the best view from vincenzomachine thatwas ahead of us!
I apologize to Anthony for small infill Fortunately Which did notlead to more serious accidents I was totally taken byaccidentthat I lost some concentration forgive me, I onceagainapologize to jonas! Nico dear I think You Shouldreevaluate What Happened with better Eliezer Because atleast on what I feel I have no guilt!
Eliezer dear friend with this post I will not give you no offense,Ionly answered the description of our contact in the firstcornermade by the referee because i do not feel guilty and Ithink Ihave! I'd like to know your point of view! I hope not tobeoffensive or malicious nelproporre Been my thought!

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[David Turnbull]

sorry i dont agree with you at all nico

i watched you play cat and mouse trying to get past him at the end of hanger straight, i was half way along at the time, i took stowe corner the way i usually do but he was in the middle of the track going very slowly because he'd held you up on the straight, i couldnt turn out and i shouldnt have been expected too, why he was in the middle of the track doing that speed ill never know.

david approaches full throttle beacuse there should have been plenty of time but there wasnt as hes was in the middle of the track going very slow because he'd held you up on hanger straight, why? a small lift hanger couldve let you past safely and then me past on the run down to vale but no he lets you past at the stupidest point and is still recovering when i appear, so thats my fault he ends up at 100mph at stowe corner when im at 170mph, im sorry but he should never have been in that position at that speed at that corner, before and after that corner was place to let people past not just before it and during it.

id like to know how you get that im in too much of a hurry to lap folk anyhoo? i hadnt even tried to lap vale, i was aboot 300m further back when you had yous fight trying to get past him at the end of hanger straight so how can i be in a hurry to lap him from 300m back, yous were on stowe i was still on hanger then, all of a sudden at the fastest part of the track a car appears very slow in the middle of the track yet you and him where a good bit in front of me before that.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Gaetano:
I think I understand most of what you say (but not all)

I have not studied what Eliezer did, I only looked at you. What I saw was that you were clearly on the outside of the track, thus one would expect you to leave room for a car on your inside. The more room you leave the safer you are. Perhaps there was room for a car on the inside, but if it was it was very narrow. ->no safety margin.

If it was me driving your car I would definatley leave much more room and there would have been no incident. We do to a large degree create our own safety.

If it was me driving Eliezer's car I would think that the inside was clear as long as I keep to the right of the track through the turn. I would not expect you to close the door at t1 lap 1.

having said this I do not say that Eliezer have not done anything wrong, because I have not seen it from his point of view.

David:
(coming soon)

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I don't know what the policy here but i just happened to look at the replay and Gaetano, you can only blame yourself in the first turn incident. You are trying to force yourself in the racingline where there is already someone there. By the time of impact you are taking 1/4 of the groove and still turning in very heavily. Eliezer could've used line 1m closer to the curb but he did aboslutely nothing wrong: he's on the racingline going like a train, no deviation or sudden steering wheel movement with a steady pace. Nothing else can be required, right?I would say: "Racing incident" and leave it there since there was no damage to either cars.

EDIT I looked both drivers view and understand why Gaetano was trying to get at least one foot in the racingline, just 50cm less turnin and this would've not happened.. And the reason i'm watching replay: i'm watching Seans laps, maybe i can pick up something useful

 

[Jonas Lex]

Once again Gaetano no problem, its important that drivers wait when they cause an incident and you did that so apology accepted.
I just watched the replay again and I saw you bump into 5! cars in independent situations (3 times into one car in one straight) before you crashed me of the track and I dont really see a logical excuse for that.
So maybe you have to change your driving style a bit or if you were upset because of the first turn, try to cool down more because it wont help anyone if you crash

 

[Eliezer Bartik]

Miss That one
I remembered the touch but tougth it was ok
I'm sorry Gaetano, I was fully concentrated the car at front of me. as you brake a bit early and you run with low wings, it was very hard to predict early brake and close to apex.
Again my apologies to you and Anthony.
Anthony it was decision of a mili sec to keep going as I wasn't sure it completely my fault and felt competitive at this track I hope you forgive me.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

No incidents to report
One thing ill say some drivers were to eager to let me by when lapping and they then ended up going off track etc compromising there own race to let me by id much prefer if guy i was lapping took there time and waited for a straight moved over and lifted to let by i think its safest and less time lost for both. I dont mind losing a little time, i just dont like lapping someone and then seeing them make a mistake or go off track to let me by i feel like its my fault .

 

[David Turnbull]

my last post i dont think gets my point across, it wasnt ment as an arguemental post.

what i ment is, half way down the straight vale shouldve lifted and let you by nico, by not doing so he compromised his own corner and ended up in the middle of the track going really slowly, i was full speed at this time, im guilty of not paying attention to vales blue dot on the map, i shouldve paid more attention to that, but i expected vale to be back at near full speed and move over on the run down to the next corner, what i didnt expect was him to be going so slow in the middle of the fastest corner, but i did apologise to vale as i know its obviously my fault as i hit him from behind.

i still dispute that you think it was a hurried lapping manouver or an unsafe one, the intention wasnt to lap vale at that point if it was then the middle of stowe isnt my prefered choice of corner for it, it was an accidental collision because i didnt pay attention to the track map and suddenly had him right in front of me, although stowe is a fast corner its still pretty blind due to its angle and that video doesnt show it from an in car perspective either, if id saw him on the track map id have backed off, but as i didnt and was unsighted of what was round the corner i went in liek i usually do, i think youll understand it wasnt ment as running full speed into the back of someone is never good for your own car.

so to make it clear the only bit i dispute is the incident being caused by me being in a hurry to lap vale, it wasnt like that at all.

 

[Bob Laube]

sorry for late reporting!

No accidents with other,s
except with myself

 

[Peter Marshall]

There are two incidents I would like to comment (this is what makes me so populare... lol):

Indeed it is!

Ensuring all racers are of a similar mind is key to the success of this league.
I like to think of our events as the Friendly Games more than the Proving Grounds.

Now about all the running wide at Stowe corner. Isn't it so much safer to "push it" there compared to Copse corner? lol J

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

so to make it clear the only bit i dispute is the incident being caused by me being in a hurry to lap vale, it wasnt like that at all.

I guess the reason i thought this was that I would think you would notice that you were gaining quickly on him, and then the sensible thing would be to lift and do the last closing up in a controlled fashion. but I did not consider that you didn't see him when going through stowe.

Also you said that Vale was holding me up, I had not this impression, i think Vale is one of the best to let others lap, I "hate" it when people move to the side of the track to let me past when I am 1 sec or so behind (I think Jonas did ), what I like is to catch up with them, be at their tail, and then I will expect them to make it easy for me at the next safe spot.

In Vale's example, I think the optimal solution would have been if he had stayed in the racing line, and then left plenty of room on his inside when entering stove, then I could have passed him "the normal way" without much delay for any of us. The solution he chose (moving off racing line and slowing down) cost him maybe 2 seconds and me nothing, and it obviously helped create the incident with David.

I think maybe we should open a thread for lapping cars, to make sure that we all are on the same page, and perhaps have a more detailed guide.

 

[Valerio Vinassa]

..................................

In Vale's example, I think the optimal solution would have been if he had stayed in the racing line, and then left plenty of room on his inside when entering stove, then I could have passed him "the normal way" without much delay for any of us. The solution he chose (moving off racing line and slowing down) cost him maybe 2 seconds and me nothing, and it obviously helped create the incident with David.

I think maybe we should open a thread for lapping cars, to make sure that we all are on the same page, and perhaps have a more detailed guide.

true Nico I thought it was but i thought also that if we arrived together at Stove do the turn close was a big risk I will have lift my feet only after Vale straight before Club turn better place for let pass someone low speed and where I was thinking let pass David but in this case you would have lost 2sec. with David behind,so while you read this words 6 or7sec are gone and I had to find the solution in much less time.First of all try to avoid to ruined race anyone.
Bring you another example when I had Sean behind he see me and I see him but before he pass me a lot of time is gone for study of both for sure place he let me a time/place for not lose my time for lapping,probably he had a good advantage. This is simply an example

PS about thread for lapping cars have a little sensation that we will go in a road whitout exit I want say that in thread all is clear (maybe after 3000 different cases/situations ) but along races adrenaline-pressure-less time for think-desire to win........ ummmmm some problem at skyline .
if you open this new thread sure I take part Im veteran about lapping

 

[Peter Marshall]

...... i do not feel guilty .......

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hmm. I feel more sorrow for Anthony than you own misfortune in this case.
Four collisions with Anthony in 2 laps! Anthony is not exactly a slow driver either. Small collision with the rear tyres destroys suspension.

As for old driving, I am only concerned about how we race here.

Nothing personal internded Gaetano.However, you do seem to feature often in post race reports.

 

[Anthony Ishak]

I'm So Sorry Anthony !!!

lap2 : I watched replay we didn’t had contact from my replay

But yes I should take extra caution with Australia's guys cause the distant

No problem at all Eleizer , no bad feelings, I could see from the reply that we had a lagging so it is a racing incident .
I still believe we need to pay more attention to the safety margin in close battles, the fresh paint on the rear of my car has not dried yet from the bump I got from you at the first race at Istanbul..

ts 1544 - 1548 (lap 19) : complete mess with Anthony that I was lapping. It ruins my strategy (one stopper), but most importantly Anthony's race . Sorry mate, I thought you were letting me the inside at Maggots. I should have lift off..

No problem Nicolas, i will put it down as a racing incident and i am sorry for your race, I would have lifted off and let you pass if you were much closer to me before I exited the pit but the dot seemed to be very far when I quickly checked the map before I went out and then I was full on throttle when I exited the pit and I crossed the white line ahead of you when I suddenly noticed that you closed the gap very quickly and you were very close to me, and at full speed it would have been very dangerous to do any unpredictable move so the safest way was to keep the racing line and to let you pass right at the start of the next long strait .

Hopefully the lapping cars thread will solve this problem as these incidents keep happening almost in every race and they were many of them last season ( Vale at Abou Dhabi sprang into my mind)..

I apologize to Anthony for small infill Fortunately Which did notlead to more serious accidents I was totally taken byaccidentthat I lost some concentration forgive me,

I always try to see things from a positive and friendly view and I never carry any bad feelings towards anyone, apology accepted, but seriously Geatano , do you call your 3 collisions in less than a lap “for small infill Fortunately Which did notlead to more serious accidents “ ? Would you have accepted someone to do the same to you and ruin you race and call it a small incident? I do not want to further comment on these incidents, I am only hoping you have learned something from these mistakes so no other driver will have to suffer the same in the coming races.

 

[Anthony Ishak]

hmm. I feel more sorrow for Anthony than you own misfortune in this case.

Four collisions with Anthony in 2 laps! Anthony is not exactly a slow driver either. Small collision with the rear tyres destroys suspension.

Thanks Peter and thanks for mentioning how fragile the rear tires are in relation to the suspension, I received suspension damage with the first collision, then the car felt even worst with the second collision and with the third collision the steering was bend , I was very close to the pit so I did not have enough time to call out the crew and to select the right pit menu, and then I got hit for the 4th time by Elizer car , I lost the force feedback of the steering and with all the damages the car felt horrible to drive , others might have pressed escape and left the game but I decided to stay in the race and while I was driving back to the pit I did a mistake , I lost my way and went on the other side of the track and then I found myself back in the middle of the pack , it was not so easy to stay on track while trying to leave enough room for the cars to pass, it was a frustrating moment as I was almost 2 laps down after fixing the car, but I kept pushing and hoping to catch someone so at least to have a bit of fun to make it up for all the misfortune in the race, i exited the pit after my pit stop on lap 17 to get the 5th hit by Nicolas car , my car received lots of damage and at this stage it was too much to take , I lost the interest to stay in the race and left.


I mainly do most of the race preparation close to midnight or after midnight after work when I am already exhausted from a long day at my restaurant, that is the only free time I have , all that to follow the rules to be safe enough to be on track and when the race day comes I expect some decent racing to enjoy some of the hard work while preparing for this race to find out that things doe not go as planned and i have to deal with it in a pro way , but the problem is that the same things keep happening race after race and What is worst than a motivation- destroying !? Therefore guys I wish you all the luck in the coming race as I am not finding enough motivation to join you in this race and I will see if things gets better for me or I call it done for the season.


Good luck all



Anthony

 

[David Turnbull]

i feel for you mate, ive been there 2 seasons ago when 5 races in a row i was taken out and races ruined, ive done the same to others (wrecked their races) but its just something that happens, none of us go out to cause incidents its mainly the aim of being competative that forces us into situations that puts others at risk, i hope you reconsider your definatly one of the gentlemen of the league and id hate to see you become so demotivated you called it quits, hopefully things will get better

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

but its just something that happens, none of us go out to cause incidents its mainly the aim of being competative that forces us into situations that puts others at risk,

Our problem is that a large amount of our incidents are caused by a small amount of our members. I do not want to kick out anybody from the league, but I want everybody to evaluate themselves objectively! Those who have many more incidents than others need to cool down in the race, and think much more safety and much less competitiveness.

It is possible (but a lot of work) to go through all the incident reports, count it up and present the statistics, I bet that would be a very sobering view for many.

 

[Valter Ostman]

My thoughts about running in to someone from behind.

It's in my oppinion a very unfriendly thing to do to a racing mate.

This type of incident usually begins when the pursuing driver are crousing on a straight (or almost straight) section and his vehicle is in perfect balance. There is no doubt of guilt at all, the pursuing driver and no one else decide when to brake.

I will always do everything possible not to run into the car ahead. When I fail I'm always so intensely ashamed for what I have done, because I know that it is just my own fault, and that I had the option to slow down in time to avoid it.

This kind of behavoiur can ruin a league I think. The cautios guys leaving and the mainiacs take over. It's not the path I like Presto GP to travel.

This rule is no.1 for me. After that there is noting and nothing and nothing and then the more low prio rules.

And the least one can ask after being hit from behind is a serious apology.

 

[David Turnbull]

maybe thats what needs done then nico, a count back as far as we can of incidents weve caused or contributed too, then everyone will have a fair idea of their driving, i wouldnt like it to happen but when a guy like anthony is considering giving up then obviously something needs done.

about my competative comment, i guage each race by these guidlines, only for myself......

1. Competative (if im not competative id be as well not turning up)
2. Safety (if im not safe on any given track id be as well not turning up)
3. Consistancy (if i cant be consistant for at least 10 laps id be as well not turning up)

others may see safety as their first priority, but mine is to be competative with times and in races, my consistancy has never been great so i suffer badly during races which is something i need to get a grip on, on safety i dont think ive ever went into a track feeling unsafe, i can always handle the car safely, sometimes circumstances dictate youll make mistakes though, that happens with front runners and guys further down, nothing can stop that unless we start processional racing.

what im gettign at is accidents will always happen, maybe 3 in one lap is a bit excessive though.

 

[Valter Ostman]

I can take an example to further clarify what I mean. Reik's decent at driving and competing, but it's very rare that he needs to apologize for rear ending.