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Season 8 - Off topic

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Kennett Ylitalo, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Another thread i feel is necessary... For those posts that doesn't fit to any other, stuff that is not related to a single race etc. Don't go too Off-Topic, there's enough places to just chit-chat..

    First question or more like a favour to ask. As you may know i build tracks, that's my second favourite thing to do with pants on. I'm trying to complete Cicada GP ( more info here: Cicada WIP thread ) and i need some help. I can't do it alone even with the help i'm having. I do have my own betatesters and collaborators but one thing they can't do: drive a real on-the-limit F1 qualy lap so i can see whether it really works or are the safety issues. Sort of like FIA test that would give me the final saftey issues, do i need to flatten some bumbs, are the runoffs correctly placed etc.

    The track is designed using the FIA handbook for F1 certified tracks but taken it to limits in some cases. It's a high grip ( 1.015, default is 1 ), hi-flow track where you have to use a slightly too lo aero because of the lengthy main straight, almost 1/3 of the track. The track has variable width corners that gives it the unique feel plus very slippery astroturf and metal drain waiting for you to slip your feet in to the wrong side of that white line... And things change drastically in the wet where the curbs are actually your friends, up to a limit.. As a bonus it also eats tires when sliding too much, it's suppose to be in Spain in the summer so that is reflected to tire temps.

    That all needs to be tested. I doesn't require a lot of time and i can provide stable online test server, courtesy of Simracingsuomi. Online test is much much faster as i can see my self what the problem also small group discussion can confirm things at once. I can even possibly make a quick patches to try out different grips etc.. Probably one hour session is enough, two if there is time but not more.

    That much i can tell you that everyone who has tested the track has fallen in love with it. It's modeled naturally using a metal wire, moving one corner changes the whole track then transferring that shape to 3D. This has not got a deadline so there's no hurry. But i'm picturing after the Nurburgring two or three drivers could drive an hour on it, allthou i have to warn you, it very quickly turns to three, like i've witnessed in all online tests.. " just one more race?"
     
    • Like Like x 8
  2. Hmm, one idea came to mind.. If we do a short race the winner gets the honour to get a corner named after him or give a corner a name of his choosing.. And if there's enough support from Presto i can give a corner to the league too, there's ~300km/h triple-apex that could become Presto Arena.. Here's the layout, it needs updating but the track is the same.. http://cream.galleria.fi/BTB/Projects/Cicada/Layout.pdf
     
  3. Excellent Kennett.
     
  4. Here's a recent developement video, sorry about no sound and crappy quality:

    Edit: crappy youtube suggested music added and crappy youtube effect used. I still suggest to turn the volume donw.



    Not very good lap, too bad the sound didn't take.. I ran out of gas in the first uphill, it was nice when the engine was choking in the straight, the revs bounce violently there anyway.. I had the car at lowest setting to show of some sparks but there will be heavy bottoming in normal setup, that's for sure.

    The astroturf has 40% grip so it's very slippery, the drainage grill has 80% , that explains why i don't want to cut or run wide at all..
     
    • Like Like x 6
  5. It looks like a classic track; we all love fast flowing corners I think.

    :cool:
     
  6. Okay, now to the task at hand: http://Cream.Galleria.fi/BTB/Projects/Cicada/Cicada_1.0.9.2_by_CreamK.zip

    I need three drivers, one from the top5 to take one hour test session. This can be done offline or online. It's not of course limited to three, any number of drivers are welcomed.

    What i'm after:
    - Feedback, overall feeling, what is missing and what is/isn't realistic
    - The ultimate drivingline, ie. qualy kamikaze
    - Basic drivingline for the AI to use and if possible, wetline (over 80% conditions AI uses different line, that racingline is also used for for OnPath wetlevels, ie where the grip is highest in wet conditions...)
    - Safety check, both the actual track and then as a secondary, runoffs and crashbarriers.
    - as an option, a setup that's gonna be delivered with the final installer
    - and then your opinions on grip, tire wear, gameplay. My wishes are slightly higher grip and tire wear. Not Silverstone grip but definitely not Nurburgring.
    Racingline will be studied from replays as time-attack doesn't work with MAK F1 :rolleyes: I can provide online test server if one is needed. If it's online, then we just decide what time/date is good. If offline, then you need to write me a report. I'll start a private conversation with beta-team present where you can send feedback etc. Those who are interested, please like this post. (so sorry, for those that like but can't participate, don't want to hijack this thread.. You can always post questions ;) )

    Note! The track hasn't got rainreflections yet, you can add them if you like but we'll be using the pipeline version ( 1.0.9.2 ) without rainfix patch so the track will not be so pretty in the rain.. Also the glass surfaces will be cubemapped ( reflections which i'll try to localize to reflect the real surroundings...) I going to use a novel new (untested) technique in the final version that uses mixed materials on track so i can really adjust gameplay but for that, i need very stable ( = tested ) base values. The track also is done using rFactor2 design requirements so it can be then ported to rF2.

    I'm trying to get this track out in Race07 as soon as possible so the rF2 work can start. I know from experience that the first hi-quality mods for new gen sims are going to be pretty popular. I'm really satisfied with the track, it's my dream F1 track so it's definitely a classic one, not Tilke crap but still with inbuilt overtake possibilities plus other features that the modern Formula 1 needs.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    A high speed track, wonderful. I don't like the start stop chicane tracks.
     
  8. Seems great to drive there, but I have no clue if it's fun to race in F1 there : the overtaking opportunities should be checked also I think. Anyway, wonderful work. I'll probably try it.
     
  9. I'll give it a go, but I do not think you can regard me top 5, that would be Reik, Sean, Tim, David and... Jim perhaps (or did I offend anybody now :) )
     
  10. Another sub average driver here who will try to give you some feedback. :)
     
  11. Jim Hawley

    Jim Hawley
    PrestoGP Veteran

    "perhaps" ? :) lol, only on a good day ;)
     
  12. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    Thanks for this very cool track Kennett! It's very difficult to learn. :)

    Last sunday night (when I had my last "free" time :)) I had a short run at this track. From watching your vid, your description and the layout I suggested to take a low wing setup, so I started with my best one from Interlagos (wings 4/25). With some slight adjustments and after finally completing a decent lap, I reached a 1:30:7xx (I think).

    The track leaves very much space to earn but also to loose time, so this one by far seems not to be the perfect lap time. Nevertheless I attached the setup because it feels good to start with and I made a short vid of starting a offline race against some Formula Race Room cars.

    I use the Race Room cars as opponents because they drive ok there whilest the MMG cars spin at some corners. In addition I gave the Race Room cars a low wing setup from my own and set their skills to 100%.

    The end of the vid shows how tricky the track can be. :)

     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 4
  13. PrestoGP test tracks:

    I'll do some basic test tracks, like circles, skidpans, rumblefields and straightline tests..

    GrandeOval: 30km banked perfect circle. 15 degrees camber, steering wheel is centered at 300km/h
    3km Circle: flat 3km circle
    300m circle and skidpan
    Quarter-mile drag-strip
    1km standing start
    Flat straight 4km
    Upwards slope 4km
    Downwards slope 4km
    90 degree "City" corner course
    Chicanes
    Chicanes with curbs
    Esses (Suzuka esses but flat)
    1, 2 and 3 degrees on and off camber turns (7 turn course)
    Three courses 1,1km, 2,8km and 4,5 km very basic tracks, clock-wise and and anti-clockwise layouts.
    Rumblefield (bumbs of different types)
    Gripfield, strips of tarmac with all the different road materials
    Vaiurs grip levels like 90%, 100% and 110% in skidpan.


    That all should fit well in relatively small space, all-in-one and very very quick loading times. No non-sense, just tarmac and car. All tracks are walled and have full length rumble-strips on both sides of the track. I'll put some milemarkers, well km-markers actually, and start/finishline stuff. The three circles and straights are already built, had few test-exports and feels nice to have perfectly flat straight.. And that 30km circle is insane, feels funny to go on such a long corner, wheel centered and stil turning. The radius is long enough so that centripetal forces aren't affecting anymore. I have never seen actual released test site in Race07.. I can think a lot of possibilities combined with MoTec so i'll make sure it works.. Thankfully SimBin made the Hillclimb mode, very very usefull feature now. I'll give them their own gategory so that they aren't messing with your track lists ingame.

    The longest straight is limited to 4000m (inner radius of 30km cicrcle - outer radius of 3km circle / 2...) but 3km could be better, then it's 1km sectors.. Give suggestion and ideas, what would you like to have in your ultimate test facility?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. PrestoGP Test Facility v1.0 is ready.

    It isn't visually the most beautiful but the main focus was to get all tracks inside a small package. The initial package is around 80megs unpacked, has 7 layouts and loading times should be very fast. The first version includes the most basic test tracks:

    • 3km Straight
    • 3km Uphill
    • 3km Downhill
    • 300m Circle
    • 1km Circle
    • 2km Circle
    • 3km Circle
    They will appear in a new category: "PrestoGP Test Facility". I'll add the more complex tracks later..All those basic ones are made wit default track parameter values. Grip is 1.00, tire wear is 1.00 etc...

    How to edit the track grip levels:

    Locate the track folder, i believe i don't have to tell you guys how to do that ;) Open the folder and locate the layout you need to edit. There is 7 files with identical names tha makes one track. All those files except HAT are in textformat so you can use Notepad to open and edit them. Notepad++ is my recommendation, google it, it's the best texteditor ever.

    But before we get to the exiting stuff, first more basics.

    TRK: This has all the models in it and the searchpaths what the game uses to find all the stuff that makes a track. You don't need to touch it.
    TDF: Outdated, you can actually delete them as the game doesn't use them. In previous SimBin titles that file had all the different materialnames and their feedbacks but in Race07 the game uses only what is listed the Trackvariables. Everything else is hardcoded and nothing can be edited in that file anyway.. (there is a way to edit them but i'll leave that for later...)
    CAM: Well, you don't need to be genius to figure this one out.. It contains all the TV cameras and their parameters.
    AIW: This contains all the data needed to define what's a part of the track and what is not. It also has he locations of grid slots, teleport grid location (for rolling start), garages and pits. Additional info you may be interested is the GrooveWidth and GrooveWidthWet. Those two define the higher grip drivingline in both dry and wet conditions. AFAIK the transition from dry to wet drivingline is somewhat dynamic so that may become useful in wet races..
    HAT: Height Above Terrain. The game uses this special file to define the driveable surfaces. Just to explain a little, if i raise HAT by 1 meters, you will be driving 1m above the whole track. The file is not identical with the track geometry that we see since it needs a bit different algorithms to give us the track/vehicle interaction. This is the surface we are actually driving on, everything else is pretty much only a visual representation. In some rare cases the track geometry and the HAT are so much different that you can see tires leaving and sinking a bit. Most i've ever seen was in the range of 2cm.. In most cases you can trust your eyes 100%...
    GDB: This is the important one for testing purpose. It has the name of the track and how it appears in different menus. It has also the date of the race, the time-of-day for every session, various localization stuff: Latitude, lighting settings, fog and direction of north. But the main thing you need to find is these lines:

    RoadDryGrip= 1.00
    RoadWetGrip= 0.85

    Those are the griplevels of the track and affect most of the road materials. From this season track only Nurburgring used special materials that aren't affected by RoadDryGrip. For comparison, Silverstone had RoadDryGrip of 1.160. That means 16% more grip than what we have in Melbourne.. That is actually so high grip that i don't believe that Silverstone is realistic anymore. In my own tests, everything above 10% increase starts to feel a bit arcade..

    There are three more parameters in GDB: TireHeat for front and rear tires and TireWear. Default for those are also 1.00. These are even more rare to see adjusted and i kind of know why: they are very effective and can easily result in some mods using their tires unrealistically. Plus it takes a buttload of testing to see what the effects really are.. For example, when i was defining those values for Cicada, it took me four days of just driving lap after lap to get tireheat and wear to fall within my design... And in the end i gave up and stuck to conservative values (heat: 1.01/1.02 and wear:1.015.. trust me, that makes a LOT of difference with supersoft tires...)

    So now you know how to check griplevels of tracks and use them in PrestoGP Test Facility. Remember to backup the originals. If there's a demand, i'll release the trackpack with installer. That way you only need to click the installer to repair all the files to original state automatically.

    NOTE!!!! DON*T USE SIMRACINGMANAGER with this trackpack.. I have no idea how it works with multiple layout tracks that uses a single model/texture pool.....

    The next update will add new layouts but since the art of packing multiple tracks in one neat package is VERY difficult for my kind of chaotic workflow, i'll add them one by one.. All the trackshapes are mathematically placed, circles are perfect circles (well, there could be 1 or 2cm flaws, sue me...) and straights are perfect straights. I hope they will come handy, at least the straight is one that could find lots of uses... Give feedback, what you want to add or change and i'll try my best to get them delivered.

    WOW, that post is MASSIVE.... And my head hurts, it's 07:25 and i've been working since 18:00... Fortunately there's already some stuff from the future updates in the package so filesize wil not increase a lot anymore..
     
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Very interesting stuff Kennett. Does the grip factor change with track temperature or is it just tire temperature that determines what grip level it is?
     
  16. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    WoW! Very good job Kennett! Also thx very much for your explainations.

    I hope my free time increases a bit in the future so I can have some tests at this facility. :)
     
  17. What is the policy regarding non-league members driving on the servers? I as practicing and somebody wandered in, i asked who he was twice and he disappeared. Do i ask them to exit or what?
     
  18. as long as they do no harm it's ok. the idea behind no password is that if someone have dl both that mod and that track there might be a small chance of recruiting new members that way :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Does anyone have a good tip on how to clean Momos wheel? I've tried the basic stuff (household cleaners and rags..) but nothing has really removed all that grit,..
     
  20. I feel you man, no chance to keep that thing clean :D
     
    • Like Like x 1