SEASON 12 Race 4 BAHRAIN INCIDENT REPORT

sorry alberto but someone had to yield with tito not, it has to be you, and i think it mirrors seans pass on me, 2 into that fast series of corners isnt going to work, someone will end up wide, for you both to go side by side both of you need to be going very slow.

i think tito had the inside line so its fair to expect him to hold the racing line and for him to expect you to yield and drop in.

the same situation happened with me and sean, i had the inside line although i was further ahead than tito was, i saw sean wasnt for yielding so i did, it was a compromise and my only chance to overtake sean in the race but if one of us didnt take responsibility of yielding then both mightve had an incident like what happened to you guys.


im still sayin it was sean who shouldve done the yielding with ours though :whistling:
 
I still disagree on this. I had the inside line on the next turn, am I supposed to brake there?

I want to be clear, if the message out of this is that I have to yield as a reward to try to not defend too aggressively, next time I will cover the inside aggressively and things will get interesting.
 
wether you had the inside line in the next turn is irrelevant if you both cant get through the one before, someone has to yield sometimes theres no other ways around it, especially at the highest speed part of bahrain.

like i said though, because tito wasnt yielding you had to, if he had then its your corner.
 
lol

it comes down to 2 willing parties, both of you were willing, but both of you couldnt handle being side by side through those turns, its understandable its the fastest part of the track hence why i backed out, you obviously were expecting tito take make it a right angled turn seeing as you came back onto the racing line and banged into tito as he was already on it, you just need to realise that it was a fairly silly place to expect to go side by side with someone, you came off worse, it happens.
 
:D lighten up man

look at your replay, you left too much room, if you dont want someone passing you then defend, but dont defend by staying 10ft away from the racing line then expect to pull back over onto it again, once theres a car up the inside you cant get back on because hes there, you just need to think diffrently when you approach the corner think in 2 ways, i dont want passed and i want to be safe, you know that going in side by side is crazy, you know you dont want passed, you position your car to give tito minimal space to get up the inside in the first place, you push him to the outside at the turn before, try set it all up before it happens.

best nico gives his opinion on it we are obviously getting nowhere, to me its not a big incident and is only the consequence of trying something a bit too difficult someone was always going to loose.
 
but dont defend by staying 10ft away from the racing line then expect to pull back over onto it again

Correct me if I am wrong, 10 feet = 3,x meters (more than a car width). Can you point me a single frame of the replay where I don't have at least two tyres on the black racing line (before the touch, of course)? I see a green car (me) keeping half of the dark lane, and another red car suddenly taking it all. I am the one coming back, really?

you know you dont want passed, you position your car to give tito minimal space to get up the inside in the first place

And I did not do that? I gave the minimum amount I could without pushing him out of track.

I try to drive very safe, because I got the idea that that was the main aim of this league. Than means that "you always have to leave space" (tm) I don't recall it having a "unless its a fast corner" appended to it.

Now, tito just joined and I wanted to point out that he did not give space, but according to you that is too difficult and is some unrealistic expectation. I don't like that message, I've become to expect that space and I have gotten (and given) it often.

(Kudos to Kurt, Bob, Kennett... for achieving 'crazy' many times last season and this).
 
I want to remark that I don't think the incident is big. I brought it up because it involves a new driver and I wanted to make him aware of what I thought was the driving standard in the league.

Up to David's comment, I was convinced that it worked this way because this is the way we have raced at the back since I joined.
 
oh if thats whats annoying you then think of it another way, just because presto prides itself on its driver being able to race fairly and go side by side in corners you wouldnt usually doesnt mean you have to do that everytime when your fighting for position, you dont just expect to be able to get round side by side because its prestos way, theres no written rule about it, generally at presto everyone remains fair and leaves space, the thing thats lost here is both of you did leave space but you left too much and the door wide open for tito to walk into, once he got there you tried to come back to the racing line.

do you think that because presto is fair that we shouldnt fight for position and instead just do side by sides because its fair to the other driver?, tito walked through a door you left open alberto, you then tried to come back to the racing line when tito was there, wether you thought this or that or whatever its irrelevant, you caused your own problems here and making threats like youll make it intresting is out of order, man up and take part responsisbility, if youd left that door open for me id have walked through it too and if you bounced off me id have drove on like tito did, id expect the same from you.

theres fair racing but then theres expecting too much too when your fighting for position, should we all just make it easy for each other?
 
sorry ill change it to apex, tito was at the apex, you left the apex clear then followed a normal "racing line" while tito was there, my wording sucked but thats how i ment it, look where your car is positioned when contact is made, are you telling me you purposely left tito the white line and kerb to work with?
 
In general, not just this incident..

S turns: the one behind has to yeild.

No other way to make them safely. There are turns that tighten so that is only one racing line. Then it's priorioty on the one that is leading. That's how i drive, we go side by side if there is room or there is no clear leading car. My guidelines are about half a cars length, once my front tire is at the sidepods, i have to yeild. In S turns there just ain't another way to do it, you can claim the inside but you have no hopes of keeping it and make the exit work; taking it will cause delay for both drivers. I rather wait until next braking point, following esses usually means there a braking point very close by. If i can follow within cm from the leading car, i got the edge on next braking.

This is actually pretty good, we are talking very fine details now. That fine line is up to drivers, sometime you close the line, sometimes you don't. And situations like this happen, there's no clear right or wrong.. But if i'm squeezed and i run out of road, i have to yeild just for my own safety. We all think that we own the racing line (only i do, so get off my lawn kids... ) ;)

It's all about what is considered clear leading position. We could discuss about that. My suggestion is between these two:
once your front wing can slot between front and rear tires of the other car, you are behind.
Leading car have to see the other car in his mirros..

So in practice, we are at following car front tire - leading car rear tire. Anything more than this is either clear leading position or even steven.
 
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sorry ill change it to apex, tito was at the apex, you left the apex clear then followed a normal "racing line" while tito was there, my wording sucked but thats how i ment it, look where your car is positioned when contact is made, are you telling me you purposely left tito the white line and kerb to work with?

I purposely left what I judged was a car width to my right, yes. Because he was there.

 
Hard to judge, i consider that as minor racing incident. Not in anyway worthy of so long discussion.. Tito had pretty much nowhere to go there, Alberto squeezed him in as tight as legally allowed and kept tightening (loosing just a few cm laterally, not that big a difference in the place where you were going to decide that anyway: next braking point..). Staying of the racing line immediately after the incident would've shown that it wasn't intentional from Tito and the goal was to just get thru the apex and leave enough space for both cars (basically showing that he could've kept his intended driving line on the NEXT apex that was not suppose to cross the other drivers trajectory..). It's a simple trick when incident happen; show that you had consistent, safe way out of it by following original plan like the other car still is there 8on some track, this kind of incident could mean there's a sliding car heading for the apex, good idea anyway to keep it center of the road after incident... yellow flags, other cars not involved etc...) If you go back on racing line straight away, it may look like you just took the line without any consideration of safety.

I don't know if would've stopped and waited, it's that close call. On track that wasn't clear enough for mandatory stop&wait. The touch is very light, enough for lag to creep in.. So shake hands and let's continue.
 
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well, first of all I'm here to learn something... I really don't want to flame with nobody .. I want to race and learn step by step... I will try to explain how I saw that incident... without flame, in two laps before I was really more faster, (may be the new tyres, may be I was with less fuel), in two laps my gap with Alberto was decrease, I stayed behind him and he makes some mistakes (probably for tyres I don't know). anyway personally if someone is far less then 2 seconds I start to stress myself with many look to the mirrors. Alberto made a mistake the turn before, so I had more traction, I was sure he knows I was near him... anyway I really didn't realized the touch, if I did I sure stop myself... anyway it's a pleasure drive with Alberto he is on my level more or less.... I hope we will fight again... next time I will be more carefull... sorry again also for my english
 
Point is, Kennett, I did not have so much "quality time" the last races, and Tito has a pace close to mine. This means there is a lot of potential fun for both stored in there, but I need to air this out so we can trust each other next time.

I've had close turns like this with you and others, and those make the race for me. If I have to "squeeze out or back down" then I might quit it altogether.

So I am not letting it go because I am angry that I lost a place, or that I had a (completely minor) excursion as a result. I could not care less. I am not letting it go because I DO WANT to race Tito more than one corner.
 
@David Turnbull Maybe the video centered on my car helps. I really think I took a smooth predictable line with no sudden returns to racing line or anything like that.

i think if anything that video shows you giving less room to tito than you think you did, you say all through this you wanted to go side by side, i still think that is a silly idea at these corners but even so if you wanted to go side by side then youd have to give tito alot more space than you did, you gave him plenty on entry then closed it out again through the turn, i really dont know what else there is to say on this, the video i posted of me and sean is pretty clear evidence that if one of you yielded then all wouldve been safe and you continue your attack at the next opportunity.

its all about racing alberto, obviously you like the close racing and side by sides are your thing, we all love it, it gives you a huge buzz to be able to control the car in high risk situations but sometimes you need to give it up for the benefit of your fight, if the risk of an incident is higher than not then wait, we all want to pass the guy in front as quickly as possible its what racing is all about, if the fight lasts 1 corner or 2 it doesnt matter, makes it more exciting the more it goes but something has to give eventually and the goal at the end is to be in front of who your fighting, tito thought he made a clean pass, your angry because you couldve drove side by side through the turns and have some fun but all tito wanted to do was pass you for position, which is the aim at the end of the day.
 

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