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Season 12 and future: Platform discussion

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Kennett Ylitalo, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Time to start this now, better sooner than later. We got basically one season to make a decision. I wouldn't change anything else but platform but it could be still discussed, each game has it's quirks.

    I'll put some candidates and my opinion. I'll try to be objective. :devilish:

    rFactor 2: I don't support this, not yet. I have only tried the demo and really was disappointed. Graphic wise i had to return to 2002. CPU intensive. Also with a cheap, old wheel, Momo Black i don't think that i'm getting proper feedback. Would require at least G25 level wheel, quad core i5 or better and quite hefty GPU and lots of VRAM.

    Assetto Corsa: Haven't tried but have received tow kind of feedback. If you go ask RD staff, they say it's the best thing since sliced bread. If you ask rF2 fanboys, they say the usual: "it ain't real sim". I'll have to wait to make up my mind.

    R3e: No multiplay, too arcadish to our needs at the moment (most likely will never be realistic enough. it's pretty candy and good for casual racing. not for us)

    Game Stock Car: It's Race07 in different package. Same engine. What i hear, FFB is at the top of gMotor titles. Graphics are updated to modern cards, netcode works. Haven't tested but it has gotten nice reviews-

    F1 2012: No. Haven't tried the realistic mods but i'm not even gonna try.. Someone could give review on this. Don't know if it has leagues possible, are there dedis etc. or is it all open. Would be completely surprised if this wins... The game engine should be possible for quite accurate simulation but... naah.. forget this one.

    rF1: Old reliable. Will work on all PCs, all wheels and suits for all drivers. Has everything. Tracks, mods, tools, plugins. Everything. In my mind it's either this, AC or GSC. I would love to go for 1070s F1 or even 80/90s KART. There's tons of options to choose from and this alone requires season long testing.. So i would start it now as it's going to be one of the benchmarks, race07 and F1 MMG/F3000 will be the other side. Choosing this has downside: We'll have to change soon anyway. Can't see this going longer than two seasons.. Would ease switching to rF2.

    I can say that 1971 F1 is sweet but it's really hard.. There are a lot of variance with tow different mods and the best one could possibly be GP2, something from US formula series or even modern F1. There are so many plugins to choose from that affect the final decision. It's also gonna cause a lot of different opinions, feelings might get hurt, toes will be stepped on.. The final choice is NOT going to please everyone, that i can promise.. But lets keep open mind and respect each other, no matter what skill level or how long one has been a PrestoGP member.

    Objectivity is required. Facts are appreciated. Good manors are mandatory. Get over yourself, now.

    Let the discussion begin.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
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  2. whats wrong with Race07?
     
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  3. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    - steam issues
    - limitations like too long pit stops (from GT racing -> don't suit open wheelers)
    - I think bad syncronisation (collision and lag issues) between drivers from farer locations

    But besides I still love it, because it still gives me the best (real?) feeling! ;)
     
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  4. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Reik is right. Nothing wrong with the feel. And pitstops are same for all. Works perfectly if not fiddled with. One of the most "bug free" games I know of.
     
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  5. I love race07 as well, for me the 2 biggest drawbacks are:

    -I assume many sim racers have moved on from race07, so it might be harder to recruit
    -It looks like the hacker-trolls have us by the balls at the moment. Will SimBin be able to solve the problem?

    There are always details we could wish for, like faster/more realistic pit-stops, safety-car, warmup lap, chicks flashing their boobs from balconies etc.

    About lag and such, I have little experience from other sims, but I am thinking it can never be perfect between an Aussie and an European. The signal needs to travel close to 40000 km in a split second, and that is not possible (I think). It is the same in other multiplayer games, such as Age of Empires and Battlefield.
     
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  6. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    rfactor2 is the future for me, ive tried all the other betas and full games that kennett mentions, only one ive not tried and have no inclination to is pcars.

    if and when presto moves on i can only see rf2 being where we move to, the real road, the pit stops, and already has the perfect cars for us to move to, formula 2 for a season or two then move upto the formula isi.

    i love race 07 too so wouldnt be too adverse to staying with it, either with f3000 or mmg again anything else and it wouldnt be worth it, i dont like going backwards in speed, mmg opened my eyes to the speed and i still miss it.

    my honest opinion here is that if presto stays with race 07 i'll stay too but id also look into participating in an rf2 league, if prestos future is anything other than race07 or rf2 id need to seriously consider what my options were.
     
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  7. Valerio Vinassa

    Valerio Vinassa
    PrestoGP Veteran

    I have rFactor I love this game ( perfect what said Kennett) and rF2 but is a bit heavy for my old pc but also a really good simulator, Race07 we know F3000/mmg.
    in any case 1st step for me is a new pc (I pray Santa :D)

    PS.
    (is a joke) Kennett you have miss GTR2 in your list:D
     
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  8. Dino Paolini

    Dino Paolini
    Premium Member

    Bare with me, very long post :D

    Disagree with everything here unfortunatly

    Graphic wise it isn't a big leap, but it's clearly better than all older gmotor games, especially when you compare the proper recent released stuff from ISI and/or the good modding efforts.

    Also as I already said in another thread: There is a lot of settings to optimise and get right from user side; when done right you don't need a really hefty CPU nor do you need a highend GPU to play it with decent picture quality and stable high fps.

    Also it works well for me with a G27, so did it also with a DFGT prior to it.
    There are again some key settings here to consider like setting in-game dampening for example.

    Next positive thing:
    It has already multiple great open-wheel cars which are very good in my opinion 1) ISI Formula Masters (F1) 2) Marussia F1 3) Formula Renault 3.5 4) Formula 2
    All 4 are very good in my opinion

    The biggest problem atm with new players is, that pretty much all have to adjust a different driving style, which punishes you much more for overdriving cars than you are accustomed too from the past.
    So you get a lot of comments like "track is like ice..." in the beginning, until the guys that persevere with the sim figure out how to drive it :)

    Also the Corvette was the worst possible car for the demo imo.

    Have a look at my youtube-channel for some rFactor2 hotlaps if you want to see some driving with some cars:
    My Channel

    AC has a very good outlook in my opinion to be a great simulator.
    There isn't much more to say atm, other than that the release is approx. a couple of months away (pre-order beeing started this month)

    R3E is quite expensive per content, but the most negative thing here is that it seems to be not intended for classical league use with all the features for a proper race-weekend.

    As a endresult, GSC hasn't really much in common with Race 07, apart from a different version of the original engine.

    The F-Reiza (modern F1 car) is still among my favourite cars ever.
    Biggest problem in this sim is, that there is a very limited choice of tracks. There are a lot of illigal conversions flying around that I don't count here.
    But really suitable tracks for a modern F1 car are very limited in numbers unfortunatly.
    The game itself is awesome:
    Apart from some lagging issues with higher numbers of players on the starting grid and the lack of international top-tracks it is absoluty great :)

    I have some videos with this sim also on my channel which was already linked above^^

    No :D

    Can't coment on rf1, i don't have it, I'll definatly not going to get it at this point anymore.


    Personal conclusion:

    A future at rFactor 2 gets my support for reasons mentioned above.
    It has all features you can possibly need for a full race-weekend either working in the game right now, or in an unfinished state (can always be left out in the beginning for example) and multiple good open-wheel cars.

    GSC 2012 has the problem with the amount of proper tracks for a full season, otherwise I would obviously support it too (with the F1 cars).

    AC is not released yet, but it looks to be a viable option too.

    I personally won't do any more Race 07 seasons, that's a fact :)
    I have no problem sitting out for a season if you guys continue with it after S11 :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
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  9. My two cents:

    I love race07. Have bought and tried almost all the rest of this list and I keep going back to it because it is simply fun to drive.

    GSC. Big problem of this one is tracks, but a tie in the fun to drive department, especially the F3.

    And now is when things go bad.

    RF2. Opposed to the previous two, it is a royal pain to drive. Yes, I now I could spend countless hours learning to take a 1st gear turn with it until finally I would keep the car on the black stuff. But real life, karting and other sims suggest me that I already know how to drive, I have no interest in relearning to mis-drive just because the low speed grip is close to nonexistant. I bought the beta, tried several updates, still don't like. Not for me.

    F12010+n. Hah, good one. :poop:

    I have not tried AC. However, recent years have immunized me from hype. F1201x has always improved handling, each year (yeahhh sure), RF2 was fantastifabulous the first weeks, nothing wrong with the grip, nothing wrong with the FFB slicing your fingers off track. Then, nothing very solid is yet known of AC but everybody says is fantastic and honestly, I don't believe a word any more.

    P.S. I don't care how carefully the 3D model of the carcass is, neither if the car is licensed or it is just a fuarrari. From the cockpit I have hardly any time to look for misplaced winglets in the other cars. I just want a goddam sim that drives and feels not totally opposite to a kart, has decent online and does not look to shabby. Is it really so much asking?

    Apparently so, since I keep going back to race07.
     
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  10. I tried the RF2 demo and all I can say is that I find it utter ****. The graphics look terrible even when maxed and the framerate does not match the ugly. I know it has some modern graphical features that the gMotor games dont have but the scenery, effects and car model (the corvette) is just awful and it just does not look in harmony. In my opinion Race07 looks a lot better even without the fancy HDR etc. Cant say too much about the handling because I was too angry with the graphics to spend a lot of time with it, but from what I hear its not too good either. Maybe the full version has a lot of improvements over the demo, but im not going to find out before I pay, and thats something im not going to do any time soon with this demo in mind. They should release a demo with the current build and with an open wheeler:whistling:

    I tried the AC tech demo and all I can say about that is that it looks and feels good

    GSC2012 is a great game, graphics look very nice and the formula Reiza car is just epic, definitely the best sim F1 car that I have driven. Problem is that the standard tracks dont really do the car justice and there are no (legal) proper grand prix tracks around. If there were proper tracks GSC would definitely be the best choice

    rF1 will probably be fine with all the mods and all but I honestly think that Race07 still is the best game out there, I dont get the need to move on to an other sim. Everything works well, it runs fine on all systems and the cars are great. I dont think the current problems with steam and all are a common occurrence?
     
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  11. Sean Greenlaw

    Sean Greenlaw
    PrestoGP Veteran

    RF2 is simply put the only real sim racing in future for anyone wanting to sim race in my opinion.:thumbsup:

    Its also will be able to do what we try and do with race07 atm with weather and with a weekend we can have our own customised rubber line through practise q and race which with randomised weather etc thrown in would be one of the best experience we could have in our league I think.
    Everything else Ive tried and has been more simcade but suppose still time for possible something else to push sim racing depending what they do with ac coming out dec, I wont hold my breath for that to change.
    I just think some of the other games catering to masses rather than sim racers. Race07 seems much more of a sim than ac or r3e, and f1 2012 in the list ? you cant be serious lol

    Also feel same as Dino completely disagree with Kennets view on rf2 but ive told him this already in pm lol, and told him im pretty sure he would love it in my house, it takes time to adjust driving style to a game that is more to real life braking simulation etc even in rf1 it was a slight chore adjust braking style from gtr where you can bang on brakes until last moment to rf where you have to lift as df comes off the car when speed decreases.
    Now I find rf2 pretty easy to drive once you wait for track to rubber in and tires to warm before trying to push it to the limits, much like the gtr/simbin moto of easy to drive difficult to master philosophy.

    When practicing for presto I cant play rf2 because I hate coming back to play gtr it feels like it also lacking so I tend to just leave it until season over. So if there were leagues with rf2 I would more than likely stop practising race07, id maybe still do presto races though if we stuck with race07 till everyone more ready but wouldn't be interested in racing anything else and tbh more speed would be a good thing as I miss mmg a lot, maybe give it more staying power, even the f2s in rf2 feel about 10 times faster than f3000 in gtr.

    Also to be honest I cant be arsed replying to most of the rf2 is **** kinda comments, no offence but I don't think you guys have a clue about rf2 or you need to try harder :cool:

    I can run it fine triples above 40-60 fps mostly high 4x aa 16 af and it looks great, single monitor 2560x1440 I can max and max aa and I get above 100Fps even on Silverstone and it looks amazing so I think a ok system and single monitor most will be able to play with good performance.

    Ac I can max even triples and sure replays look good, but incar view not much better than gtr and background is quite poor jaggy and blurry, but most importantly the ffb isn't even in the game yet just faked effects you can tell quite easily after a few laps which makes it worse than even netkarpro which I think most people should see to.

    Edit Added couple old builds and vids of rf2 club races.

     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
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  12. Dino Paolini

    Dino Paolini
    Premium Member

    I don't want to get into arguments about the rF2 comments either.
    But I personally think that many of the issues can be solved or helped by some experienced users like David, Sean or me and others in the future.

    I don't want it to sound like an add from my side though, I have a enough critique for this sim too :D

    Nice post by Sean also :)
    I already have nightmares about the end of 2013 where I presumably have Presto, a GSC league and a rf2 league at the same time :confused:

    Holy driving-style adjusting batman :D
     
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  13. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    i challenge anyone to look at seans videos and say that doesnt look better than race 07, i run rf2 on 3 screen at 4532x900, i also have a 4th monitor for telemetry, my graphics settings are a mixture of medium and high with no aa, i think it looks great even at my lower than seans settings, heres my system specs which are a few years old now so can be picked up pretty cheap if someone needs a cheap way to get rfactor2 performing well....

    amd phenom2 x4 955 @ 3.6ghz
    8gb ddr3 1333mhz
    radeon hd6970 2gb
    msi motherboard
    the usual drives and roms.

    nothing overly fancy and all cheapish componants these days :thumbsup:

    also with regards rfactor 2 feel from force feedback id be happy to help anyone who thinks that it feels rubbish, ive spent countless hours with rf2 settings and ini files and have it set to a way i really like it, once thats done the feeling comes alive.

    i think mostly the problem here is people set in their ways, they settle for race 07 because it would cost money for anything else, then theres the being used to how race07 feels, they think its the definative ffb, all people need to be is open to the possibility that rfactor2 could be better, spend the time to get settings right and i guarentee you youll be wondering why you hadnt earlier.

    saying all that though, i still love race 07, its out of the box a great game with minimal adjustments, something that rfactor 2 will be eventually, its a work in progress at the moment but the good thing is the devs wont give up with it, we will have support for a number of years which is important in the sim world.

    p.s on the cost side, think about say battlefield 4 when its released, it will be roughly £40-50 for the base game then you buy whatever addons that come out, the whole game could end up costing £100 easy, with rfactor 2 you either purchase the £30 and then subscribe per year at only £7 or you buy the lifetime at £50 and its yours forever fully supported, its a no brainer really when you look at it like that, but i do understand that some would need an upgrade of their pc, but without being too harsh id say that nothing can stay the same forever, sometimes you need to move with the flow, its 2013 single cores are the past, even dual cores struggle with anything newer than 2011, its a harsh reality of having a hobby like this i suppose :)

    also the demo wasnt a great choice of car to show to group like us who enjoy openwheelers, but all i can say is that myself, dino and sean will put our asses on the line and say that the openwheelers in rfactor2 are a leap ahead :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
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  14. Why, I agree 100%, I just cannot be bothered to try harder, because I did not have to try harder in any other thing, including real racing!

    Is that supposed to be a good selling point?

    In my case, not true, as I said I have bought pretty much all. I have licences of race 07 with all the DLC, netkarpro, RF2 (I believe still valid), GSC, F12010 and 2011 (stopped there) and I paid and returned pcars. I am open to the possibility that RF2 "could" be better, even I will believe that it "will" be better, but I am afraid that as of today it "is" not. Just based in pure hand feeling.
     
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  15. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    its nothing to do with being any type of selling point alberto its more to do with that i will spend the time needed to get the game to handle the way i like if i see potential, would i have spent the same amount of time with another game? maybe, but none of the ones mentioned, i wasnt happy with the ffb out of the box so i spent time changing things and testing, change and test, change and test, until ive got to the point i feel the ffb is very good and precise, im not trying to sell the game in any way, each and every one of us has a diffrent idea of what they want from a game, if rf2 didnt include what i wanted id never have bought the game, but it has a multitude of options ingame and through the ini files, its upto the user to set things up how they like, isi cant cater for everyones individual feel, if someone isnt capable of setting it up then they can ask for help and someone will help but the vast majority of users since the first beta have said the ffb is the best theyve felt in a game so far.
     
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  16. Did we watch the same clips? It's adequate, at best. On the second clip the road looks nice, that i admit. Also car models are better looking, possibly the least important thing. Having to set up wheel etc for hours is a definite red flag, like i've said in rF2 forums, it ain't good from the box. But i'm sure that those things can be fixed, just like it is with rF1.

    Graphic is at a point where it's drivable. On the demo everything needed to be set to low and all the new eye candy taken off. More important is the actual physics and i can't judge that with Demo.. It could be good, it felt like between nothing special to horrible. Got it tweaked to "kind a ok" but it did take a looong loong time with very weird things happening, tons of contraditcing advices as everyone has tweaked it to a point where it's most likely causing problems for the whole project: they can't get the baseline right if every user has wildly different settings and opinions.

    RealRoad feels it is not ready yet, i got the same "it's ice" with fresh track, it's exaggerated.. Too bad with rF2, it's a lot to do with feelings, there's very little objective opinions. Those who like it are better at ignoring things that can make another driver uninstall the game. Also the development is slow. no one can argue that. It's still on the #1 spot of the sims to come for me. Just very very disappointed that they don't seem to want to sell it to anyone, otherwise the demo would've been better thought out.. What i gather, it turned more people away than interested in the product as it was unanimously reviewed as :poop: For once, i hope that marketing department steps in and makes some sound decisions. How ISI has managed to stay a float financially baffles me.

    Also the community seems to have some elitism, the kind we have at BF or even worse, ARMA. In simracing the worst bunch are probably in iRacing.. "our product X is the only real sim, product Y is arcade" " you play product Z so you can't criticize product A" "bad driver, bad review" etc. That is a very bad sign. If a person tries the game, does not like it, he is not wrong. It doesn't mean that he is right either. I hope they hand out another demo with TESTED content. No doubt we have some rF forum regulars, try to convince ISI to release a proper demo and try to get it to their heads that the last one was a clusterfck. If te next demo is done the same way, they are gonna loose everyone of us that waits still. And we outnumber rF2 drivers by a huge margin. And ISI is running out of time, trust in the game decreases day by day.

    We seem to be in a pickle..There doesn't seem to be a title that we could switch to immediately. And ti seems to be rF2 or nothing. Threatening to leave is a bit low blow, i didn't want to see that text.. If we would switch to rF2 tomorrow, i would leave.. Six months from now: different matter all together. Let give things more time, it doesn't have to be decided today. There will be patches and updates to each title before we need to decide anything. And we got the option of not changing anything too, all though it is just to delay the inevitable. Damned SImBin for not developing GTR3.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
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  17. Richard Hill

    Richard Hill
    outofthisworld

    I love race 07 I think it's the best thing since sliced bread lol.
    But I have got rF2 I bought it a few months ago now. I started with the demo and thought it was crap so I thought I wouldn't buy it but the things that people was and is saying, I thought I'd risk it.
    I tryed it and thought that it was driving on ice so I gave up on it.
    Last night I thought I'd try it again and even with basic g27 settings in the game it feels better in the sence I feel under steer better and loss of grip and I was impressed. All tho in my personal feeling is that it's just not strong enough.
    I tryed a few cars but I have to say I fell in love with the f2 cars they are a dream to drive. Still struggle with everything else so far but all in all if we went to rF2 I wouldn't be unhappy I just wish race 07 was newer as I still love that game and it feels more all rounded and more complete.
    Assetto corsa would be a good platform to move too in my opinion but I think it lacks single seaters as I think there is only the formula abarth and historic f1 cars. But I do think it will be better when they release it but also they won't have pitstops to start with but they will in the future but I think either race 07 or rF2 but if we go to rfactor we will need to decided earlier to get more practice on it to get ready cause I wouldn't say I'm ready yet for online racing. Also sadly I feel we may loose some members if we go to rfactor :(:unsure:
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
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  18. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    I still can't hide the feeling that Assetto Corsa could become an option.

    From what I know and read about the creators (they made nKpro) I trust in them to make a real sim. I think they mentioned they are relatively independent from publisher wishes, which would want a more arcadish game for selling purposes. And they say it can be modded well later, as they seem to understand that this is a selling matter.

    From what I see it feels like the team around Assetto Corsa is much more sorted and organized to finally release a complete title, which could give us a good base out of a box. Simply install and play it, like in the good old days. In this matter I'm not sure if ISI has choosen the best strategy but I'm not allowed to judge about that, because I may not have enough background infos. I'm just talking about a feeling. ;)
     
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  19. you are soooo lucky Dino, I barely have time to turn on the computer to just keep steam up to date :p:).
     
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  20. I already have rF2 ,I bought it last year, I turned it on couple of times , it kept asking for updates where I had no clue what to do , so I turned it of and never played it again .

    Based on Sean, David and Dino experience with rf2 it seems the game is great for sure, I do not mind to move to rF2 but we definitely need have a PRESTO THECNICAL & SUPPORT DEPERTMENT that is willing to educate and guide poor people like me on daily basis on how to run this game to the optimum.

    I am sure we are going to have the support form the more skilled guys in this field , but with a game with such a massive potential of real racing simulation comes lots of practice so I am afraid that the gap between the top 5 and the rest will be more that 5 seconds :geek:.
     
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