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Season 11 race 10 A1-Ring setup

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Peter Decker, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Peter Decker

    Peter Decker
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Ok, need advice here - using one slightly modified setup of Reik's from Suzuka, wings 15/18, gets pretty balanced with a little understeer. But some corners like first and last feels so very important and unstable, that I blame the setup more than anything else :whistling:
     

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  2. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    Need a first run myself to get to know which setups works best. Will post afterwards as soons as I had a chance to drive...

    Not sure about wing settings yet.
     
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  3. I have done a few runs, 1:18:7 my best. I was able to repeat it with both 24/28 wings and 20/25. Setup was based on hungaroring. I also tried to soften the dampers, a bit like Reik's "baa" Hungaroring version, but not as soft. Car felt different but times were similar. I saw that best time record in PrestoGP was 1:17:4xx. That's about normal for me, to be 1 sec slower than the best. though i'm sure i am able to gain a few tenth with the same setup.

    Hope this helps.
     

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  4. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    heres a hotlap video of my pb, it was set when id disconnected from the server for some reason so its not logged on the presto site :( next best on there is a 1.17.8 so it will do till i beat it, at least the replay file saved :)



    heres also my setup, probably wont change much before race time for now its very stable for me at least :)
     

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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
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  5. Peter Decker

    Peter Decker
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Wow David, so smooooth! Will be interesting to try your setup. You always seem to use one gear higher through corners than most people. I think my gearbox will have to be one or two ticks down ;)
     
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  6. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    thanks peter :thumbsup: i usually always try hold a higher gear until the last minute wether its braking for a corner or turning into a higher speed corner, if you dont come down the gears too fast while braking it always helps stabilise the rear, and if you try always turn into a corner in a higher gear it usually always keeps the average speed up through the whole turn as apposed to point and squirt style.
     
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  7. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    Here is my so far best setup. Wings are 20/26. I did nearly same good laps with 24/32 but that's probably too much in the race. :whistling:
     

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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
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  8. Peter Decker

    Peter Decker
    PrestoGP Veteran

    yeah, the thing I keep feeling unsure about is how low the revs (higher gear) you can use compared to the the (perhaps better) acceleration out of corners with lower gears. Also, considering into the equation the eventual loss of acceleration due to one extra gear change, if you use a lower gear, makes it even harder to measure :( any ideas? With WTCC cars I had a better feel for the different levels of drive at particular revs, but with f3000 I haven't got that a good feel yet I think
     
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  9. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    a simple test to do peter is use the 2nd last turn as an example, if you turn into by dropping to 5th youve already lost upwards of 5mph entry speeds in the lower gear, if you turn in in 6th gear you keep up the entry speed, by then dropping midway through the turn you use the best part of acceleration of 5th gear on exit.

    it not as noticable in openwheelers because we dont have as much if any sense of speed, but next time watch your speedo in a particular corner, then try with diffrent gears through it, its always a balancing act between entry and exit speeds, we all do it diffrent.
     
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  10. Dino Paolini

    Dino Paolini
    Premium Member

    Man, a more natural racing line here really results in a lot of wides on this track according to the rules. Could be a fun drive otherwise :(
     
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  11. The way David means is effectively same, as i understand it, as delaying one gear. So if you normally go 5-4-3-2 you change it to 5-pause-4-3-2. You use the same rhythm but just skip one "beat". To continue analogies, David does it with "burst fire", delaying even more and then rapidly going in to the right gear. I think that with clutch, Davids method is superior. I've tested this with classic F1 where it works like a charm (edit: read the rest of the posts just now :) )

    And in my tin roofer days, my gear stick was permanently turned to the left side of the steering wheel and i got reverse pull and... 2nd gear push.. So braking was 6th.. hold... hold... straight to 2nd. With that my braking distance dropped dramatically, turn in and apex speeds increased but it meant that 2nd gear had to be extremely well set (often had to go to too long just to keep some turns from locking up..). With that i could go into Monza, 1st turn, brake later than the rest, have the car in perfect stable balance, have the ability to modulate close to grip but still have optimum revs at turn in point. It also allowed a lot more control during braking and the times i went from tow to pass during heavy braking..

    But that was with FWD tin roofer, F3000 is more sensitive but the same effect applies: steady motion all the way thru the deceleration is the best way to go. Also cars that go considerably better are classic V8 and GTs. Cars that don't like it at all are Radicals and Caterham where you have to follow the revs much much closer than even here. By the way, i was ready to quit back then too, was slipping backwards specially at braking zones and then found something to keep hope a float and actually gained everything i lost and more just keeping the car at balance, at all times. Then i came here, lol :)

    I have to keep that 2nd gear quickselect option in mind, for ex Monza is a place where it could help in two braking zones. And it's not cheating as game allows it even thou FIA would ban it, immediately.. ;) edit: hmm, 3rd gear quickselect.. that is not at all bad option. I might even have it in my muscle memory still, now the stick serves as anti-stall (push neutral, pull reverse), great for catching 360 spins, a free tip ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
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  12. Double posting my initial results:

    Decided to put 2nd and 4th gears on stick. Up to a tenth per heavy braking zones improvement. After enough laps with "quick select" i did few laps without. Found a tenth more simply by recognizing the correct rev "tone" better and allowing to think and monitor braking more methodically (obviously the save is in my head that needs to downchange only once..). After going back to "quick select™" (it ™ now.. ;) ) there were additional 5 tenths. Final laptime with ~30~L was 1:20.0.

    Compared to ordinary practice session beginning, i was within 3 seconds at first lap with Davids setup (mostly cause i knew gear ranges where to aim, thank you once again for saving me 20 laps for just setup :thumbsup:..). No real differences, from outside everything seemed ordinary, typical progression. Don't think QS™ is a "magical tool" but it could come quite handy in special occasions and is worth to look in to.. Getting it right took very little time, it's was a reaction in few times i messed up braking, went too long: i could dig my way out easily with 2nd gear without losing a lot of time (it's kind a nice to know that you got one "safe" gear). Now the only real problem is during pitstop, where that reaction "push left hand forward" is quite funny (i stall, if i'm in box, that's no biggie.. if i overshoot and stall.. ****..). Most likely won't use it during race (don't like to think too much) but i'm sure as hell going to practice with and without it some more. It also can mean that i have to use auto-clutch, which slows one down just generally everywhere.

    4th on pull: nothing to report, it's just easier to tap traditionally.. 3rd was the same, nothing to gain there, in either direction (possible gain to hit max apex speed easier in first corner but it's usually too busy to do anything unusual, even during practice lap so it's a no-go).

    In general, delaying downchanges a bit seems to really help enough. Like Jackie Stewart said and i'm not gonna quote cause i don't remember how it exactly goes but: don't push throttle unless you're prepared to put and keep it at the floor. What i think it means is that hesitation or pumping the throttle too soon are disastrous.

    The downside of delaying downshift: very VERY hard to feel or hear your actual speed. Changing faster makes braking distances a bit longer but allows more precision. Delaying can cause bog down, sudden drop in revs as you're going too slow because you braking was more effective that predicted.

    QS™: interesting but mostly harmless with F3000. Too little bodymass, too fast gear box, no need to blip the throttle during downshift. But it's good reminder, i had forgotten this little trick. Delaying downshifts in general makes the most difference.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
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  13. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    and take a breath..........

    :laugh:
     
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  14. Reik Major

    Reik Major
    Premium Member

    You may be right but we handled it well on other tracks with that "issue", too, so I think we're gonna handle this one as well. Davids perfect lap (as always :thumbsup:) is a good prove.
     
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  15. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    as reik says, dont think we'll have a problem here, its nowhere near as bad as imola and some others, theres only really 2 corners on a1 ring that might be a problem, t1 and the 2nd last turn, rest of them im confident that no time is being made.
     
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  16. I concur, going wide here does not gain any time apart from the turns David mentioned. Even in those places you most likely will loose time as the curbs will cause heavy bottoming.

    If i remember correctly, there were sneaky plates at the end of each curb. They are raised terrain triangles, just a flat panel about 40cmx40cm of grass, they are just above curb height (from memory, they were 1-2cm higher than the highest point in the curb profile). So be careful not to go too far: get out of curbs before grass!!.
     
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  17. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    new pb, one tiny wide mid lap, still think i can get .1 or .2 from it, roughly same setup, softer rear springs and 1 on preload :thumbsup:

     
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  18. David, your setups always work like a charm for me! Tomorrow should be a good day for me if it is dry. If it is wet, then we might as well pray that my "rolling chicane" demonstration does not interfere with anyone else :laugh:.
     
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  19. Hello!

    I did some practice yesterday :) ,, not sure to be able made the race, busy at work :( but I will try to arrive on time, hope to see you on track:thumbsup:
     
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  20. Let's hope I don't join late again like a moron and cause myself to get kicked :p

    Gonna be fun ;)
     
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