Season 11 Race 07: Interlagos Setup and Practice Thread

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Atleast it would be nice if that's the case Would be great if the q-server would be closed too during official-practice time Then all can enjoy the same practice conditions on the official server, be it rain or whatever.

I always close all empty servers, but I do not close populated servers. Yesterday there were several non-league members on the qualify server + David T.

 

[David Turnbull]

when i joined there was jere and cristian on the qualifying server, i done 2 laps then left to join the race server, when i got onto the race server and it was so wet i took a big risk in not doing any laps in the hope of a dry qualifying, it back fired big time for me.

i and others have done this many times before in the run up to a race, is it a problem? i dont see it as one to be honest as anyone could use the server or even just do a couple laps offline to get back into the swing of things before they come on and the race server is the same conditions for everyone.

 

[Alberto Casado]

Yesterday we were having a quick race in the q server, which was really fun, thus we ended up joining race server later (we should make some of these on the off-wednesdays)

But I don't see the problem of people joining whenever they want, as long as it is on time for Q.

 

[Dino Paolini]

Doesn't matter when someone joins. I would just hope that with starting the official practice (8 pm), every one has the same (suboptimal) conditions.

 

[David Turnbull]

for what your saying to happen though dino it would depend on everyone being on the practise server for the full session, how do we know someone isnt practising offline on a dry/wet track then joins at say 7.50pm (8.50pm)? it makes very little diffrence anyhoo, the pressure is still on to perform in the time limts.

 

[Dino Paolini]

Woudn't be the best idea since offline grip-levels are vastly different

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

Is that not just in tt etc ?
I'm thought if someone did race weekend and did q, the levels should be the same as a dry online server anyway. I know rf1 had different levels of grip to promote online playing from outset but think race07 as long as temps the same, its same grip and our q server is usually default temps.
Doesn't really matter to me anyway and I'm not certain and I can't even remember the last time I played race07 offline or sp lol but I don't have a problem if people want to have a little shot of q before joining server.
I launched race07, joined the race server just after 7pm did 2 laps sat watched rain till it got steady at 49% did 1 lap and then waited for p starts. So I had next to no practise for q anyway. I think prep is done for q in the days practised before races anyway.

 

[Peter Decker]

Let people practice the way they want. Maybe good to set a 10 minute margin or so, to be sure all are online and to have some time to check if anyone's got trouble so we should wait a couple of mins before ending practice.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I oppose. We should all drive together in the official times, if anything, it simulates real racing. Drivers can't just magically create an empty track to train while others are suffering from traffic... It doesn't change results but i feel it's one of the principles that's being broken: conditions on official sessions should be equal to everyone. If one driver decides "i don't like this wet" and goes to other server, then race and qualy is dry.. Just simply, that's unfair. Other in the mean while have to be in traffic, lose laptime, have to avoid spinning cars, losing practice laps.. And in the mean while.. well you get the picture, it simply can NOT be considered fair.

If we abolish that principle from official practice, we could just simply remove it and start the evening straight from practice starts! So, even when it's a small detail, i hugely oppose other servers being open with race server. No one can deny offline practice but at least the action should not be supported by the governing body (ie, everyone here...)

 

[David Turnbull]

theres nothing to oppose kennett, this isnt a vote or anything like it, the practise session is not mandatory, you and anyone can join anytime upto when qualifying starts, preferrably before practise starts though, what i and others do in the time before we join the practise session is upto us and no vote will change that unless practise is made mandatory for the whole session but even then i may fancy doing some laps on the qual server before 7pm, see where this is leading?

 

[Dino Paolini]

...the practise session is not mandatory, you and anyone can join anytime upto when qualifying starts, preferrably before practise starts though, what i and others do in the time before we join the practise session is upto us and no vote will change that unless practise is made mandatory for the whole session but even then i may fancy doing some laps on the qual server before 7pm, see where this is leading?

Wow, this has become a very confusing matter for me.
I can't see the connection between whatever someone does before official practice or when ever someone wants to join the official server and my original post:

...Would be great if the q-server would be closed too during official-practice time ...

Just my last post to this matter since I suspect that it wasn't quite understood what I meant and it isn't important enough to discuss further for me

 

[David Turnbull]

you said it was about having the same conditions for everyone thats how we got to this, what anyone does before during or after doesnt affect the conditions anyone races under in the official sessions, so why does it matter that theres a q server open or not? if you said youd prefer it closed due to lag issues or something id get the point but you made the statement about it being about same conditions for all.

 

[Dino Paolini]

Ok than you did understand me, that's good
I wasn't sure because you wrote something about doing q-laps before 7pm.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I don't know if you guys understood me or if i uderstood you. So the case is about people practicing on q server while race server is on official practice? There's something that troubles me with that behavior.

First i want to know why?

Only answer that comes to mind "don't have to drive in traffic" That is an advantage, specially if the race server is wet.... What you do before official race server opens is nobodys business and having guys ready and driving in q server before that time: excellent idea. Using it parallel: hell, no. If you want no traffic, go to offline practice. If you want to race, effing suffer from all the traffic, weather etc that everybody else is suffering from. If not, then the idea of official practice is demolished. I won't suffer from traffic if that's what others are doing and log on to race server 10 minutes before practice starts. Thing need to be equal to all and the opportunity to do so is not an excuse to do so.

There's something worrying me about the integrity of the league, creating "two tier" classes, attitude of "midpack and us".. " i don't want to drive amongst the rookies spinining, i got a championship to focus on.." Those are the motives i have in mind and i want to get rid of that ASAP (specially if and most likely, i'm wrong). So why would the q server be open, what is the reason it should be, why should one group practice amongst themselves etc. It's not unlike F1, one team starts doing something, others caught on and try to ban that miniscule or non-existing invention.

I don't want this to become a huge deal but if my suspicions are correct, it needs to stop, now. The benefits, if any, are minimal but even a tenth more on q pace is too much. So you need to prepare an answer and it better be good. Personally i love the traffic and chatting with guys. In Interlagos, i could do only three outings because of weather not suitable for my needs... I could've been on q server and hone qualy setup in the mean time.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

The benefits don't exist in my opinion that's why I disagreed with you and agreed with Peter, I think anyone can prepare how they wish before joining race server and as late as they want, also when they are on it they can do as they wish.
I got home from work had no practise joined official race server and did 3 laps until q. So with no practise really I still got pole so I don't get where you are going with this or who you are aiming your allegations towards. This is my choice .

With you logic David would have had this advantage to me by being on a q server slightly into practise, instead Davids q wasn't his greatest infact probably his worst so far.
Your allegations of 2 tier and people not wanting to race with midpack guys with made up misguided quotes directed at the front guys etc ? This is paranoia I think your making a mountain out of a mole hill and also I am a little offended both by your comments here and that you think this. You say you don't want to make it a big deal but you asking us with we need to answer and it better be good ? meaning what exactly, you think some people have had some advantage over you, you seem angry about something which you have no control over and comparing it to a F1 invention that some other teams want to ban is, I don't know what it is but its nothing to do with this .

I think you need to take a step back and think about what you are questioning Kennet, I think everyone understood the 1st time we just didn't agree and we realise there is no point trying to police something that is impossible to do so.
We have already said you can do race weekend and race q if you desired to do q before joining and or if indeed grip levels are different offline then just create a server and then grip is identical so simply closing down of presto servers isn't solving anything people will do as they wish.
You yourself said if in parallel hell no ! go and practise offline, so you don't have a problem with someone practising offline in parallel , so I don't see why you can't see there's no difference to this, as to going on a presto server or infact any of the other mentioned ways its theoretically possible.

I also see no problem if someone wanted to do so. I see it they want to get there speed up to where they feel ready to join race server especially if its slower guys, also if you feel this would benefit you Kennet you should do so and don't feel pressured into just joining practise if you feel you aren't upto your usual q speed.

I myself don't bother as I have usually done about a million hot-laps come race day and its well stored in muscle memory lol this maybe considered more of a unfair advantage but we can't ban testing like f1 .

 

[Peter Decker]

That were some straight words Kennett.

I will share my opinion too. Not that I feel it is a big "issue" itself, whether or not to forcibly shut down the other populated servers during official race server is up. But overall this has become an interesting discussion.

Only answer that comes to mind "don't have to drive in traffic" That is an advantage, specially if the race server is wet.... What you do before official race server opens is nobodys business and having guys ready and driving in q server before that time: excellent idea. Using it parallel: hell, no. If you want no traffic, go to offline practice. If you want to race, effing suffer from all the traffic, weather etc that everybody else is suffering from. If not, then the idea of official practice is demolished. I won't suffer from traffic if that's what others are doing and log on to race server 10 minutes before practice starts. Thing need to be equal to all and the opportunity to do so is not an excuse to do so.

Either all populated servers are to be shut down, and people can run their own public internet servers if someones want to join up for something else than official practice. Or we can focus on the whole purpose of the league - to have fun - and let people play around at the other servers if they want to. Personally I happily join the race server fast to enjoy the short time when the most people are joined together. Those, though, who think that is "suffering" and not an enjoyment should not be forced to be there and feel they would like to do something else.

What is your view of what the "official idea" of practice is?

There's something worrying me about the integrity of the league, creating "two tier" classes, attitude of "midpack and us".. " i don't want to drive amongst the rookies spinining, i got a championship to focus on.." Those are the motives i have in mind and i want to get rid of that ASAP (specially if and most likely, i'm wrong). [...]

If there are feelings that two "tiers" exist, that is a serious one, I think. I really welcome such things to be brought up - they should always be, and the effect if they are not just becomes that league-members do not have a good time and drop off instead. I can just speak for myself and I do not feel those vibes at all, but there shall be zero tolerance for that.

[...] So why would the q server be open, what is the reason it should be, why should one group practice amongst themselves etc. It's not unlike F1, one team starts doing something, others caught on and try to ban that miniscule or non-existing invention. [...]

Since I don't feel the vibes of two tiers, I do not see that as a reason why the Q server would be open. Everyone is free to join both race and Q server. Or any other server for that matter.

[...] The benefits, if any, are minimal but even a tenth more on q pace is too much. [...]

If people succeed to gain time by preparing at another server (or any other way, just hopefully not by taking drugs or apply cheats) I cheer for them. Everyone should be free to use all the available options to prepare for a race. The official practice server is one among many.

Also, if there were price-money involved, sponsors, professional ambitions etc. I would be concerned about time-gaining. Not at presto. (How one even could be sure if there is any actual time-gaining from running at the Q server - or doing whatever else - is an interesting topic to discuss science-wise. If only time-machines could exist, empirical studies would be something else than today! )

Personally i love the traffic and chatting with guys. In Interlagos, i could do only three outings because of weather not suitable for my needs... I could've been on q server and hone qualy setup in the mean time.

All in all it is a balance everyone has to make between different things. Go for the Q server alone to hopefully gain lap-time but miss all the social fun? Stay in the chat all practice session instead of focus really hard to use every single practice-session second?

Should the rules forcibly prioritize the contender's time to be put at the race-server's practice-session?

Hell no.



Have I said I am a liberal?

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

It ain't a major sporting issue, i don't think it actually causes any measurable advantage, if something it's a huge risk.. And i agree than fun is the important factor, not demanding that it definitely should be banned. We only enjoy the whole bunch for few hours a month, that should be enough motivation to get all to play together as long as possible. I don't feel that there's any two tier thing at all but it did come to mind when i heard this is happening. I didn't know about it at all, i thought people joined late cause that fits their schedule. My lengthy post was to promote equality and togetherness, i hope it wasn't too harsh.

I still can't understand why would people do this if it doesn't have any advantage Maybe it's more fun to drive in a small tight bunch but it does kind a defeat the goal of getting as large grid as possible to each race.

 

[Reik Major]

I think this medal has two sides. On the one hand there's a general aim to get the event as crowded as possible (even in free practice) and on the other hand everyone's free in his choice how to prepare for the event.

From an objective point of view I'd say free practice is both, part of the main event and last part of each driver's individual preparation. As a conclusion it should be up to everyone's own taste how to deal with it.

However there are good reasons to join free practice not in the last minute (at least not on purpose) just to check that everything runs smooth and to ensure that the grid for the practice starts most likely reflects a realisitc grid from the upcoming real start. Remember that sometimes people have fps problems and need an extra minute to restart the game or the whole system...

Personally I prefer to join free practice as early as I'm able to just to create the impression of running a whole real event from the start to the finish, including all uncertain influences like weather, traffic and other stuff.

I give in that in the past I did a few offline starts with the AI before joining free practice just to get a feeling for T1 in the crowd. But since we do 3 practice starts I got rid of that...

 

[Peter Decker]

I think this medal has two sides. On the one hand there's a general aim to get the event as crowded as possible (even in free practice) and on the other hand everyone's free in his choice how to prepare for the event.

From an objective point of view I'd say free practice is both, part of the main event and last part of each driver's individual preparation. As a conclusion it should be up to everyone's own taste how to deal with it.

However there are good reasons to join free practice not in the last minute (at least not on purpose) just to check that everything runs smooth and to ensure that the grid for the practice starts most likely reflects a realisitc grid from the upcoming real start. Remember that sometimes people have fps problems and need an extra minute to restart the game or the whole system...

Good input Reik! I agree to all that - it sums up this in a clear, correct and concise way. If I hadn't known you to be e German i definitely would have thought that anyway

It ain't a major sporting issue, i don't think it actually causes any measurable advantage, if something it's a huge risk.. [...] I don't feel that there's any two tier thing at all but it did come to mind when i heard this is happening. I didn't know about it at all, i thought people joined late cause that fits their schedule. My lengthy post was to promote equality and togetherness, i hope it wasn't too harsh.

I still can't understand why would people do this if it doesn't have any advantage Maybe it's more fun to drive in a small tight bunch but it does kind a defeat the goal of getting as large grid as possible to each race.

Good to hear that you don't think different tiers exist Kennett.

What do you mean would be "a huge risk"?

I don't know if I can come up with a satisfying answer to why people in general would do this - but my point of view is that not everybody see it the same way as you do, or I do, or anyone compared to another one. What type of thing that to one person is an "advantage" or more "positive" thing than to another, differs.

The goal of getting as large a grid as possible to each race is still fulfilled, I'd say. Or at least as much as it can be concerning this. Maybe there are not as many players online during practice, but I would say the chances are not smaller that more people are actually in the race.

Reik, I think your point of getting people online in enough time to get a realistic practice-start-grid, is a good one. If people experience it to have been a problem that people do not try to put in a realistically good lap before practice starts, that could be something to make a more "official rule" of perhaps?

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Huge risk : wet practice, dry q server.. The risk is that if either the qualy or race is then wet, drivers are not prepared for that. Or it's dry race and qualy and possibly better performance. As it is a risk, it takes away a lot of "advantange" discussion. If we would have 100% dry races all season with 50% wet practices, then it would be an issue and i would really oppose to the point of demanding a rule (now i don't, it's just a bit disappointing but don't really change anything). But Daniel does such a good job on the weather department that it's not an issue.

Maybe a gentlemen rule, at least make one outlap, hotlap and inlap on official practice. No one monitors or follows, just that it would be in good spirit. I'm pretty sure this already happens. I also know that good mood is essential so i don't want to remove that element from others.

It's good that people talk openly, i see this in another light. If voted, i would choose "only race server open". If it's fun thing to do, go ahead.

EDIT: Maybe the difference in opinion stems from different approaches. For me, race night is a lot like roleplaying. If i had my way and the game allowed it, we would have a parade laps, formation laps, more realistic garage rules including time needed to change setup, changing gear ratios would take 10 minutes before you can drive again, 3 sets of dry tires for each session etc.. So people driving on the same track in parallel universe is a bit odd concept but then again, i like scifi..