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Featured Sauber Honda 2018 Deal off the Table?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey
    RaceDepartment Editor-in-Chief Staff Premium

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    Sauber Honda Deal Off.jpg
    Have Sauber cut ties with Honda ahead of 2018 season?


    Rumors within the Formula One paddock at Silverstone suggest the deal for Honda to provide power units to the Swiss Sauber team has been cancelled, leaving Honda dangerously close to finding themselves without a partner for the next racing season.

    News broke back in March that Sauber would be joining McLaren in 2018 as a Honda powered Formula One team, prompting speculation that the British concern would be looking to untangle themselves from their current Honda contract, paving the way for Sauber to become the official works team of the Japanese giants as they feel their way towards a more competitive Formula One Hybrid Power Unit.

    It now appears that with McLaren actively hunting around for alternative options for next year, Sauber too could be looking to remove themselves from an arrangement agreed by former Team Principle Monisha Kalterbourn.

    If Sauber and indeed McLaren exit their agreements with Honda at the end of the current season, the once proud Japanese manufacturers could be left in the embarrassing situation of having a 2018 spec hybrid PU, bit without any teams willing to put the motor in the back of one of their cars.

    Honda could use this potential break in supply to step away from the pressure environment of a race weekend, and develop their engine configurations back at the Honda home base in Japan, with a view to returning to the sport stronger at a later date.

    At the time of going to press, the cancellation of the Honda / Sauber deal remains just a strong rumour amongst several sources within the paddock. No official work from either Sauber or Honda has been made available, but will likely break during the British Grand Prix weekend.

    However with Honda seemingly off the table for both McLaren and Sauber, and with Mercedes and Ferrari having limited supply options for customer teams, it will be very interesting to see how the cards fall for each team at the end of the season.

    Check out the Formula One sub forum for more news on the sport, and join in the conversation!

    Do you think Sauber would be making the right move terminating their agreement with Honda? Can the Japanese manufacturer return to competitiveness in the near future? Let us know in the comments section below!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  2. DaVeX↯

    DaVeX↯
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    I still have my idea...why Honda didn't save Manor?
    They will have a full Honda team with a good car (at least on paper) and a team with years of experience on different engines...
     
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  3. theravenousbeast

    theravenousbeast

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    Same reason why they still haven't found success? They don't want to invest as much as they have in the past only to get burned.
     
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  4. Shad3R

    Shad3R

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    Even if Honda got advantage on the next regulation of engines of 2021 like mercedes had with the V6T

    Im 100% secure that Honda wouldnt be like mercedes on this era, even with a 4year advantage.
    I think Honda have to stick to MotoGP and to Road Cars and of course his Japaneses Series.
     
  5. DaVeX↯

    DaVeX↯
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    To be honest they got burned more now due the deal with McLaren...people was expecting much more, sponsors are moving away or doesn't have interest on them, they are falling down but they are taking with them McLaren too..if they will move away from McLaren and Sauber the best move will be to run a team themselves, like Manor...
     
  6. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    A picture speaks a thousand words...




    [​IMG]

    zzzzzzzzzzzzz
    ..........
    .......
    ...
    .

    Wake Me Up When It's All Over


    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  7. Leonardo Chaves

    Leonardo Chaves

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    I hope this isn't true that deal seemed like a good move for both companies.
     
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  8. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo

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    Retiring from F1 now to develop an engine and come back later is no good idea. If using every race weekend as a test session is not working imagine getting out of there.
     
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  9. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie

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    not sure how it seems like a good deal for sauber unless their aim is to break down every race and get grid penalties for the next one.
     
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  10. Leonardo Chaves

    Leonardo Chaves

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    Grid penalties and Sauber? It doesn't matter.

    I assumed the engines would be obscenely cheap, even some financial support from Honda on the cards if they took on their development driver.
     
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  11. wombat999

    wombat999
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    If I were Honda I'd be leery of running Sauber as a 'Works Team'.
    As for the McLaren deal, it makes no sense for either party to give up, Honda are not inclined to lose 'face' and do McLaren really think they will get a decent engine out of Mercedes?
    Hardly!
    Believe nothing and trust nobody in F1 and the Media.
     
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  12. Jim Layee

    Jim Layee

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    A second tier Mercedes engine would give McLaren more chances than the forth rate Honda jobbie
     
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  13. Azure Flare

    Azure Flare
    Forever a backmarker Premium

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    @Mr Latte Should've used this one instead:

     
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  14. Leonardo Chaves

    Leonardo Chaves

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    I think a works Sauber would be perfect, a chance to grow slowly without putting a spotlight on their mistakes.

    If they came on with a "learn, grow and then challenge" attitude they wouldn't be looking so ridiculous, instead they came on teamed up with Mclaren, hired Fernando Alonso from day 1 and started making boisterous statements, that makes them look like a joke when things go as bad as they do right now.

    Compare it with Renault, bought a team that was about to fold, came quietly without any headline grabbing statements, and evolve their engine and chassis step by step with patience...instead of, you know, throwing their previous design in the trash and coming up with a new one that's even more problematic.

    That's the right attitude which Honda didn't show, even Mercedes had to face a couple of years of "suck" before rising, but they kept mostly quiet and dignified instead of bragging and then making excuses.
     
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  15. wombat999

    wombat999
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    I don't recall Honda 'bragging' when they announced the McLaren partnership, but I do recall the 'Media' making wild unfounded predictions.
    Being an ancient follower of real Formula 1 I do remember Honda entering the 1.5 formula with an outstanding powerplant in an indifferent chassis to eventually win the final race of that Formula and elicit the observation from Daniel Sexton Gurney that 'Honda would have dominated 1966 if the 1.5 formula had continued'.
    Honda made the fundamental mistake of building a heavy and thirsty 3.0L V12 installed in an overweight chassis for 1966, quickly turning to Lola and John Surtees enabled Honda to become a race winner.
    Returning to the turbo era Honda tested the water with the noncompetitive Spirit team, moved to Williams and finally (two seasons later?) moved into a front running position, eventually dominating most of that era.
    I think (just me, myself) they botched the 3.5 years, compounded by attempting to run with a mediocre team (BAR) and eventually falling into the trap of going it alone.
    As for 'Mercedes', they entered F1 with Sauber in 1994 IIRC, badging an Ilmor designed and built V10, which found itself in the 1995 McLaren, to eventually become one of the dominant combinations up to the V8 'Formula Bernie' period.
    If we include the Ilmor's debut with Leyton House in 1991, it was really 6 years before 'Mercedes' became a contender.
    Long story short, don't write Honda or McLaren off, as for Sauber, grid fillers ever since Peter Sauber departed.
     
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  16. Adam Devine

    Adam Devine

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    So does this make Sauber McLaren one team or will they be split? Cause if it is one team then who makes the engines?
     
  17. DriverJay

    DriverJay

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    I always remember the Honda innovation adverts and they would make me smile and think that there tech was moving forward in the right direction to benefit us all,
    This year though feels like something about Honda has gone terribly wrong, and i really hope they get it together before we hear about the Honda files for bankruptcy dew to a massive slump in shares, Honda sells company to.... etc etc
     
  18. Shad3R

    Shad3R

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    Honda as road cars isnt going that bad lol.
    F1 is what companies want to win because if u win the most important competition means that you are capable of doing the best of the best.
    And thats good publicy for you, nobody wants a car from a companie that the engine just broke everytime it raced
     
  19. Kasti

    Kasti

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    The main problem is their rotation system for the involved engineers. It´s a kind of strange, but after a year they are put back in production or street cars and bike development. Good for the customers, bad for the racing engine development.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  20. oorjit07

    oorjit07

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    It seems as though Vassuer is trying to sign either Wehrlein, Giovanazzi, or Leclerc to get free Ferrari/Merc engines for next year.
     
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