Tracks Sandevoerde - F3 Classic Tracks.

[aphidgod]

No, basically nobody donates anything to anyone ever. Across all of the mods I've participated in, I think the average is probably 2 donations per project. (Those always go to the 3d artist, I've never gotten one, so you'd have to ask the modelers to be sure.)

In general, if you give people a chance to get something for free, they're going to take it.

Remember that the next time you download a mod that obviously took a small team of skilled people hundreds of hours each to produce.

 

[LilSki]

In general very few people donate. That's all I will say about it.

 

[Topuz]

Based on my experience with Sidekick, it averages to about one donation per 1000 downloads. I'm sure it's a bit better for car and track mods, but yeah, we're not getting rich.

 

[jim lloyd]

Honestly. I recieved 2 donations in total. Approx 10 uk pounds. Im not complaining just giving you guys the facts. I cant be mad at sergios descision though. Its takes time and not everybody's financial stiuation is the same so its hard to be a judge.

That said any mod work i do will always be free. I do this for fun and am lucky enough that all i learn from messing around with this stuff impacts my professional work in a very postive way. Its a knock on effect for me

 

[Art-J]

Well i can tell you the track has been made with input from a local supost who also has 40 years of experience commentating on the speakers around the track. He gave Sergio tons of pictures from the early 60s as reference as well as input on how the track layout should be (camber etc).

And he says the layout is pretty accurate as is now.

Well, either the reference was not good enough then, or it wasn't used properly, because even a quick look at the onboard recording from Grand Prix movie (or other period documentaries for that matter) reveals that Segio's version has a hump section through Hunzerug flattened more than it should be (this part of the track hasn't changed in 50 years by the way, apart from resurfacing), and there are lots of trees all the way from Tunnel Oost to Pulleveld, while there shouldn't be any apart from a few on the outside of unnamed righthander after Panoramabocht. These serious inaccuracies struck me immediately and put me off the trial version and I can see they made it through to the final one. I suppose the track will go through some tweaks and fixes, but I'm not willing to buy it at the current form right now.

 

[A3DR]

I bet people get more from donations than from payware mods

That's exactly the opposite.

 

[DutchDevil79]

Well, either the reference was not good enough then, or it wasn't used properly, because even a quick look at the onboard recording from Grand Prix movie (or other period documentaries for that matter) reveals that Segio's version has a hump section through Hunzerug flattened more than it should be (this part of the track hasn't changed in 50 years by the way, apart from resurfacing), and there are lots of trees all the way from Tunnel Oost to Pulleveld, while there shouldn't be any apart from a few on the outside of unnamed righthander after Panoramabocht. These serious inaccuracies struck me immediately and put me off the trial version and I can see they made it through to the final one. I suppose the track will go through some tweaks and fixes, but I'm not willing to buy it at the current form right now.

About Hunzerug I am not sure I have to look into it.

But the forrest was there. This is 60s Zandvoort and not 1966. Ist pre 66 when there was still a forest in Bos uit (hence the name Bos is forrest in Dutch). I got pretty clear info on where all the trees where back then with photo's as well.

Example:

 

[mantasisg]

Based on my experience with Sidekick, it averages to about one donation per 1000 downloads. I'm sure it's a bit better for car and track mods, but yeah, we're not getting rich.

Thats decent amount of donations !! I had two.

Speaking of payware, Miseluk 1.0 is amazing track, I wonder how many has bought it. But the downside of it is that mod will be less popular eventually, and it might get leaked... RSS 2017 Formula should have sold decently, but thats because it is on the wave.

If Miseluk 1.0 would have made public here in RD, IMO it would have made to the top 5 of the mods, and if it had anything like "Laser" word in it top 3 guaranteed. it is very well made.

DRM team are planning to have free and payware versions of the mod, IIRIC

The amount of content is so incredibly huge in AC already, that some people might be not interested even in new official content anymore (weirdos).

I'm really looking forward for Sergios tracks, i hope to find time to try test version later today i probably would have more time, if I'd be posting more compacted posts.

GL and HF as we write in chat before racing in multiplayer

 

[BenCollins]

I'm happy to pay, but if it's $5 each, that will mean I won't buy as many. $2 or $3, no problem. I've bought this one, Miseluk, the RSS cars and URD and others.

I've never donated, so it's probably better to charge a small fee. I don't donate cos I'm a mean git.

 

[LilSki]

I'm happy to pay, but if it's $5 each, that will mean I won't buy as many. $2 or $3, no problem. I've bought this one, Miseluk, the RSS cars and URD and others.

I've never donated, so it's probably better to charge a small fee. I don't donate cos I'm a mean git.

It's not always simple to just charge a small fee. Licensing comes into play and as soon as you force payment the chance of running into legal issues gets much higher.

In the end it is the modders choice if they want to take that risk or not. If you don't like that they are charging for it then don't buy it. If you don't think the quality is worth the price then don't buy it. It is a pretty simple concept.

 

[BenCollins]

It's not always simple to just charge a small fee. Licensing comes into play and as soon as you force payment the chance of running into legal issues gets much higher.

In the end it is the modders choice if they want to take that risk or not. If you don't like that they are charging for it then don't buy it. If you don't think the quality is worth the price then don't buy it. It is a pretty simple concept.

I totally understand selling essentially copyrighted material, but there may be a way around that. I would donate for early builds for example, and have done that for some cars. It wouldn't need to be specifically stated as a selling price. It would be a donation.

 

[Kenny Paton]

I'm a bit conflicted about this, on the one hand I have no issues with paying for mods. On the other I feel that it is somehow unfair on modders like fat Alfie who do an amazing job and give their efforts away free.
I have donated to a few modders and will continue to do so, as the pittance they receive can in no way make up for the hours and effort they put into their work. Nor the many hours of pleasure they bring us. At the end I feel that we can only thank them for it in whichever way they wish us to.

 

[BenCollins]

If you make a mod and give it away for free, you can't really complain about not getting donations. People generally won't give money and get nothing in return, unless it is a charity, not someone who has spent hours creating something wonderful and gives it away for free on purpose.

You're either doing it for money or your not. You can't have it both ways, "I've created it out of love for the project, but want money too".

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement, and that's the reason I will never charge for a mod (which I see as totally different to a track created for a client, a commission).

I would much rather create a track because I absolutely love the place and want to drive around it in AC (and then share with the community hoping that others might fall in love with it too), not because I think I might make a bit of cash out of it.

If I release it for free and someone spots a flaw I won't feel too bad about it, but if I have charged I would feel duty bound to apologise, correct the error... you become immediately responsible. Not that I would knowingly release a flawed track, but you know what I mean.

I strongly feel mods should be about fun, not money (that's Kunos' domain). Should you pay a percentage to Kunos, without whose simulator you would not be able to make any money? So many questions... but, each to their own

 

[seanlewis]

On Bandcamp and similar sites you can put in a minimum amount of required donation, say $0.10 but the buyer can then add whatever it is worth to him/her.
With such small fees nobody could argue it's not in their reach.

Doesn't solve the license and legality problem, though

 

[Kenny Paton]

I look on it as buying a beer or coffee to say thanks, I suspect that most modders are unlikely to retire on the profits.
I quite like this idea of a dual mod. The free one available to all, which means it can be used in MP, and a more polished version for those who want it.
Once again I think the modder should have the choice. I don't think whichever desicion a modder makes should be regarded as making them a bad or greedy person.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

I've got it, sorry I've created an off topic debate about the payware vs donation.

 

[A3DR]

You're either doing it for money or your not. You can't have it both ways, "I've created it out of love for the project, but want money too".

Yes you can.
I make a living out of making 3D cars. I love what I do and get paid. Simple.
And I'm not the only one.

Let's save all the drama and get back to the original topic, it gets boring that every time there's a new modder that asks money for his work we have the same discussion.

 

[Sergio Loro]

Some of work done this days :
Add Bump effect to road (i tested 6 different level of bumpiness)
Add Race Grovee and brake skids.
to do next days :
add more effect to road, as sand, paint line, better textures for curbs.
check if some curb is missing.

This updated will be ready by weekend and avaliable for both Test and Full version.
Enjoy it

Sergio Loro
www.f3classictracks.com

 

[DutchDevil79]

Awesome, keep it up!