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Sainz Reportedly Secures Renault 2018 F1 Seat

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Paul Jeffrey, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey
    RaceDepartment Editor-in-Chief Staff Premium

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    Carlos Sainz Renault.jpg
    Toro Rosso driver and Red Bull junior Carlos Sainz Jr. has reportedly secured a contract to drive for Renault Sport F1, paving the way for McLaren's Renault engine switch in 2018.


    The deal to bring Sainz into the Renault fold alongside Hulkenberg next season has been agreed as part of a larger sweetener package from Toro Rosso, with the Italian team expected to step aside and allow Renault to switch engine supply to McLaren next year, taking on the Woking teams Honda units and keeping the Japanese firm active in the sport.

    It is unknown how long Sainz has signed to drive for the Renault team, however with the manufacturer looking to dramatically improve performance over the next few years it is expected that a youngster of the talent displayed by Sainz will be locked into a long term contract, potentially for up to three years with additional clauses allowing both parties to extend the arrangement further.

    It emerged during the Italian Grand Prix weekend that Sainz looked set to play a major role in the proposed Renault McLaren alliance for 2018, with Renault reportedly looking for a suitable incentive to switch over supply from their current Toro Rosso agreement. Sainz is an ideal candidate to replace a struggling Palmer in the second Renault seat, and according to Motorsport.com Sainz could potentially make a debut for the team before the end of the current season, with Malaysia cited as a possibility depending on the performances of Palmer in the second car.

    Now that Sainz is in place at Renault, it looks increasingly likely that the French manufacturer will announce a deal to supply McLaren for next season, with Toro Rosso taking over Honda power as sister outfit Red Bull keep close tabs on the situation with a view to becoming a future works Honda team, should the Japanese improve performances over the coming years.

    With Sainz potentially driving for the yellow team next season, have we seen the last of Jolyon Palmer in Formula One?

    Check out the Formula One sub forum for more news on the world of Grand Prix motorsport.

    Do you think Sainz to Renault is a good move for both driver and team? Can Renault do enough to pull themselves back up into championship winning contention? Does a McLaren / Renault alliance for 2018 make sense for the British outfit? Let us know in the comments section below!
     
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  2. Benutzername

    Benutzername
    I breath a lot. I guess i just really like air. Premium

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    Sainz, Renault, Red Bull and McLaren should all be quite happy with the deal.

    Toro Rosso could have made a mistake though.
     
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  3. RufGTI

    RufGTI

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    Toro Rosso doesn't have much to lose next season. The driver line-up is going to consist of two of Kvyat, Gasly and Nobuharu Matsushita what is not going to be the best line-up in the field. The amount of money Honda pays to Red Bull should be much higher than what Toro Rosso loses because of its worse results. And maybe Honda is going to be competitive in 2019.
     
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  4. Leonardo Chaves

    Leonardo Chaves

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    Toro Rosso isn't doing this for themselves, they are doing this for Red Bull, Red Bull goes at least one more season with Renault... and when/if Honda starts showing signs of competitiveness we get Red Bull-Honda.

    Honda and Mclaren was a disfunctional partnership, Honda was ill prepared and Mclaren publicly pressuring them.
    Hopefully out of the spotlight Honda can build a reliable engine and then start developing it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  5. pcraenme

    pcraenme

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    If Torro Rosso is going to use Honda engines, I think it is a good move of Sainz to leave Torro Rosso. But the Renault is currently a similar car to the Torro Rosso, looking at its performance.

    McLaren will improve when using Renault engines, but.. with the current F1 engine regulations both Renault and Honda will never close the gap with Mercedes and Ferrari, and Red Bull, McLaren and Renault want to win races or even more want to win championships. Both engines are just not reliable and fast enough.

    We need to get rid off these hybrid engines in F1 (leave the 'electric stuff' to Formula E) and make the F1 engines easier (and cheaper) to build, so other manufacturers can step in (e.g. Porsche) and Renault and Honda may get their act together with a new engine (e.g. a V8 again). And as a bonus... it will bring the sound/noise back to F1.
     
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  6. Rob

    Rob
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    Looking at this practically, it's probably a good more. You never want to remain in a JV Team if you can play for the varsity wanna-be. Problem is, he's in F1. If he stays there, we can never see his true ability, which I happen to believe is right up there with Vettel's.

    No worries, as the great Rush lyricist once said: "And the Trees (F1+Halo) were all kept equal by hatchet, axe, and saw (competition)."
     
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  7. burrito

    burrito
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    Great move for Sainz.

    Don't really get it for McLaren, the Honda money is huge and will last them till 2025 and there must be penalties for leaving early. A Renault engine is not going to get them that much further up the grid. Just ensure they are in the fight with Red Bull. But as Max Verstappen will tell you he has done less laps than Alonso so far this campaign, so it may have more horsepower but it's not a huge improvement in reliability. Honda money is worth so much more than a two place higher position in the WCC and the cost of paying for your engines again.

    They have also took the pain of a new works partnership and then given it on a silver platter to Red Bull. Priceless (literally).

    And finally McLaren will (may)be looking to make their own engines soon. Maybe post 2020 depending on the regulations, but even in that situation it doesn't make sense to go to Renault as a stop gap. If they stay with Honda, they take the pain and maybe get the competitive engine for the next regs as (correct me if I am wrong but I seem to remember it's a 10 year arrangement?) at this point Honda may as well focus just on the V6 and immediately move to dominate the next engine regs, just as Mercedes did in this era. Then McLaren either get a great engine 2021 or they stay with a mediocre Honda (who still pay them and provide free engines mind you) or they use that funding from Honda to create their own engine division. Which would make sense as Ron Dennis said, Works teams will only ever succeed. It would also add massive credence to their road car line up when they can say a McLaren engine designed from F1 is in the back of this 240,000 sports car.

    I just don't get it. Renault is clearly a stop gap but even then I don't see it as the best move.

    Side note: Alonso is past his prime (maybe not in talent but in team relations and age) and McLaren should just let him leave and hire one of their very talented academy drivers. They are rebuilding and Honda and McLaren do not need an old, frustrated, double world champion complaining about them every weekend. I don't understand why his staying is made into such a big deal when frankly Alonso's career in F1 is over. He will not win any races in F1 ever again (apart from freak results like Baku).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  8. xG4bby_o0x

    xG4bby_o0x

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    if thiss really happenes i'd be very dissapionted cuz i want kubica back so bad :(
     
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  9. pcraenme

    pcraenme

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    @burrito I almost believed your story and then I read your side note about Alonso. I think this year has shown how much passion Alonso still has and wants to perform and win races. He already had some great performances in a crappy car/engine and look how well he did in the Indy 500. That he is very frustrated atm is very understandable... what former F1 champion would not be frustrated with the current situation at McLaren Honda? I am sure Alonso would still win races if he would drive in a Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull atm.
     
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  10. Matthew Allington

    Matthew Allington

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    If McLaren does get the Renault engines then presumably Alonso no longer has to race with Honda power.

    Honda engines to turn good confirmed.
     
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  11. burrito

    burrito
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    Re-read my post then. I am not saying he lacks talent. I am saying he has burnt his bridges with too many people. I am also not defending his actions. He has every right to complain. I think he is still absolutely up there in talent and speed and possibly still the best in racecraft.

    I totally believe, like you, that he would win in a Mercedes or Ferrari. But the fact is he will not get that seat (or a seat like it) in the remaining part of his career. He is too old, and has upset the boat too many a time for a team like Mercedes to take him and Ferrari are clearly very happy with Vettel for the coming years. So his future in F1 is to never win a race outside of freak situations. It makes me sad sure. I would love to see him up there with Hamilton and Vettel but it is not to be frankly.

    @spark23 I assume this is why you "angried" my post. I suggest you re-read my post and this one.
     
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  12. Knoxstar

    Knoxstar

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    Wait a second......this is Johnny Herbert isn't it?
     
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  13. burrito

    burrito
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    Jesus the Alonso fanboys.

    He can and did do wrong. He has made bad decisions since Renault and unfortunately we haven't seen him at the front.

    I want to see him at the front. I'd love to see him at the front but quite clearly it isn't going to happen with any team that is capable of being at the front because of political reasons of his and his management's creation.

    Alonso is wasting his own time is what I am saying. But the same can be said of McLaren. What difference does Alonso make at McLaren really? Sure he drags the most out of it but that doesn't make a difference when the car never finishes a race. Neither does it take McLaren any higher up in the WCC.
     
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  14. Knoxstar

    Knoxstar

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    It was a joke man....sheesh!
     
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  15. pcraenme

    pcraenme

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    @burrito I understand your statements about Alonso better now. And he may have made some bad decisions, but I also think he was mostly unlucky to be at the wrong team at the wrong time, except when he was world champion at Benneton Renault. I hoped that he would get the spot Rosberg left behind at Mercedes this year, because I really would have like to see him driving in a similar car to the other current aces in F1. That would have been a battle... Hamilton-Alonso-Vettel!
     
  16. paracletus

    paracletus

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    Sainz seems half decent, this is probably the best option available for CS. Guess it means no kubica though, which is unfortunate.

    It's a shame the mclaren-honda team didn't work out, but sentiments don't win races and Alonso doesn't sound like a honda fanboy anyway.
     
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  17. Kakusso

    Kakusso

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    Good decision from Mclaren. They cannot afford to let their brand remain in the mud with Honda, Mclaren brand is worth way more than any money Honda brings to the team. At a professional level there is a moment to say stop when things are not working. That moment has come as an evidence. Mclaren has no other option than to go for the Renault engine and maybe fight with Redbull. But unfortunately despite having the same engine next year as Redbull, Alonso Will not be at their level, because he can't lead the team forward, he is incapable of helping the team in making strategic decisions that would make Maclaren rise.
    As for Renault, Saniz is not the best choice. Hulkenberg is way better. Renault should get a joker in the figure of a talented young driver. Some teams have difficulty hirering inexperienced drivers, that is a shame because inexperienced drivers like Hamilton, Vettel and Verstappenn have shaken F1 in their first year.
    Edit: Would Ferrari had risen to the point it is now if Alonso had remained their first driver? Most probably NO. When a problem arises he spends more time complaining than actually trying to help investigate the cause.
    In the end Carlos Sainz has the same problem as Michael Schumacher did when he joined Mercedes, they both try to bring the car to their driving style when that driving style is no longuer optimum in this generation cars.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  18. spark23

    spark23

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    @burrito your second post is more reasonable.
    The only thing that lacked to Mclaren was that Alonso was not, to be even more sunk.

    That he is old isn't an argument to say that its no longer valid, not all the pilots are in declibe regarding its performance with that age. Its true what you say, at that age he is less likely to be on a big team, as a "young promise" impossible, he would have to be as a senior pilot, and that is difficult as you indicate, neither Vettel nor Hamilton are leaving their seat. About the victories ... there are only two teams now capable of fighting for the championship, or almost two, but never say never, and it does not have to be a freak situation.

    I Agree with @pcraenme "he was mostly unlucky to be at the wrong team at the wrong time".
    Also, someone might have remembered how long it took Schumacher to get his World Championship title with Ferrari. I think he's a little impatient. It is also true that Ferrari at that time was a mad house (The Ferrari dealer in USA as team leader, really?).

    Anyway, returning to topic, I think that is a good deal for all. Big teams as Mclaren can't get experimental engines, it's risky.
     
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  19. Ghoults

    Ghoults

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    This will simply hurt honda a lot. Their next season is going to be even worse. Toro rosso does not have the resources or manpower to sacrifice themselves to get the honda engine to work the same way mclaren was. Toro rosso does not have the good mclaren chassis either so the honda toro rosso will be dead last in every race next season. And if that is not bad enough then you have worse drivers and a team with less resources which will limit even further how well the car can be set up and prepared for each race.

    And it is a new team. And it is just ONE team. Honda needs 2 or 3 teams so they can gather more data and have at least one car finish every race. All the other engine manufacturers have 3 or 4 teams. With just two cars it is not enough. All that is negative. All that is worse than what honda had this season. And they have struggled massively this season. Next season they are happy to get through 107% with toro rosso. Points? No chance. If sauber improves we will see the caterham-marussia 3rd class f1 series come back to life with toro rosso being the only participant in that filler class.

    Toro rosso may appreciate the money. Red bull certainly will. Having second team in f1 is super expensive and if your star driver is going to be kvyat then who cares if the engine is a faulty gp2 engine. Honda is going to pour buckets of money into toro rosso which is certainly something red bull can appreciate. Plus red bull gets the first dibs if the honda engine at some point starts to perform better than the renau... tag heurs. All at the cost of getting rid of driver they have no place for anyways and sacrificing one seat.

    Could be a deal where everyone gets what they want. Mclaren gets rid of honda. Honda gets to stay in f1. Sainz gets away from toro rosso. Red bull gets more money. Toro rosso gets more money. Mclaren gets better engine. Alonso gets better engine. Only loser is kvyat.

    I think the only dysfunctional part in the partnership was the honda engine. Mclaren gave honda three-four years to improve and the pressure from mclaren really started to rise just last year and this year when it was evident things were not improving. As far as I can tell mclaren has been understanding to a fault.
     
  20. paracletus

    paracletus

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    Haven't heard any statement from Honda yet regarding their intentions - maybe they have no interest in powering mid/bottom-order teams that aren't exactly steeped in heritage.