[ROUND 2 PAUL RICARD] ABR vs TBR

[Tom Ilsbroux]

yes i know we shouldn't discuss incidents.

But Andreas, i agree 100% with mike and other TS probably feel the same. Your explanation makes a joke of these reports.
So if the driver in front of someone is slow then it doesn't hurt to push him off. Common this doesn't make sense at all and makes a joke of these report. Hit hits him no less then 3 times. One tap i can understand, a second one, well maybe, but 3 times where he finally can keep the car under control ???
Can you imagine beeing in his place ? If you can you would react like this.

I do think we should be fair here. yes everyone has a different view, but one should try to remain fair and sry this wasn't the case here, certainly seeing the other incident report.

Again sry for the discussion. But i was shocked reading the explanation. This is not the standard we want to see here. You just can't push someone off because he is slower and then justify it by saying the pass would have happened anyway. Not saying that he did this on purpose.

 

[Andreas Löffler]

I wasn´t saying that i found the overtake right or good or a common move. I only explained why i think a warning would be enought. That was my view, not yours. So -4 points then.
But that the other incident(s) between Greg and Corse is the same penalty level where Greg lost much time and places in comparison to the ABR driver i wonder a little bit. Is not the same scale to me. But you guys know it better probably.

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

I wasn´t saying that i found the overtake right or good or a common move. I only explained why i think a warning would be enought. That was my view, not yours. So -4 points then.
But that the other incident(s) between Greg and Corse is the same penalty level where Greg lost much time and places in comparison to the ABR driver i wonder a little bit. Is not the same scale to me. But you guys know it better probably.

Andreas, there is no system of warnings. Also it the team that is penalised and not the driver. It doesn't matter who is the driver and if he has had an incident before. This is a team championship, not a driver championship.

The fact that Greg lost more places is because it was in the beginning of the race. Where in this incident it was in the middle of the race.
Exact same incident can have a different effect if it happens at the beginning or near the end. Does that then mean the penalty would be different ? And are you 100% sure Tiago didn't loose a place because of the time lost ? Very hard to tell i would say.

It wasn't your vote that shocked me (seen this before ), but the reasons you gave.

David, xosé, as many have asked can't the involved TS kept out of the votings ? Not sure why you insist to have them in the voting.

rest my case

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

guys, wasn't this meant to be a threat just for votes (with a short, clear explanation) and no discussions? order please. anyway, Blue Flag voted for -4p, not the best of moves but we've seen worse.

 

[Andreas Löffler]

Andreas, there is no system of warnings. Also it the team that is penalised and not the driver. It doesn't matter who is the driver and if he has had an incident before. This is a team championship, not a driver championship.

Did i ask your for rules ? Don´t know how you think i don´t know that.

The fact that Greg lost more places is because it was in the beginning of the race. Where in this incident it was in the middle of the race.
Exact same incident can have a different effect if it happens at the beginning or near the end.

Right, CAN HAVE - but i judge what happened, not what had could happen! And there is clear a different (in loosing time) between Gregs spin and the short going off track from the ARB driver due Gregs push.
The ARB driver had never lost that much positions, also if it happened at the beginning.

Does that then mean the penalty would be different ? And are you 100% sure Tiago didn't loose a place because of the time lost ? Very hard to tell i would say.

If i look on the timetable and see he´s 20 sec off to the next car i would say it had no effect cause he lost not 20 sec in the incident.

It wasn't your vote that shocked me (seen this before ), but the reasons you gave.

Don´t know why you guys can´t respect my meaning, i think it´s very clear to follow. That you have maybe a other sin to judge it then me it´s ok. Again, i don´t wanted legitimate Greg´s overtake, i wanted explain my judge about it.

David, xosé, as many have asked can't the involved TS kept out of the votings ? Not sure why you insist to have them in the voting.

rest my case

I think it´s quite important that the TS have the possibility to judge cause he have more informations from the driver for example. And one vote isn´t the majority.


I think i will keep me very short in further explenations. It seems i´m writing chinese or nobody can follow or understand it. Only take out something, interpret it negativ and give from this a harder penalty (Flatout).
How Eckahrd said, why not simply let it uncomentated and respect the meaning, equal how they it developed. And i was not mad about the incident report, i´m mad about that my post let other TS give more negative judgement. That should play no role in a own view!

 

[Fernando Bento]

I think everybody understood you at first Andreas . . . You just keep digging the hole thats all. I've been in Simracing for over 7 years now and rating about being reported is one of the dumbest things known to man.

 

[Mike Simian]

We understand Andreas.

The simple explanation why Gregs penalty is more harsh - It looks like bad/impatient/pushy/disrespectful driving, I have always made my feelings known about this type of driving, and I always will...everyone on track deserves better than to be pushed off by an impatient driver. In all honesty it's the type of driving we can see on public servers.

The ABR v COR incident is a mistake.

So they both get -4

Its not the end of the world...its only -4.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

We keep involved TS voting because one biased vote will never make the difference, and this way we hear what they think about the incident.

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

We keep involved TS voting because one biased vote will never make the difference, and this way we hear what they think about the incident.

I agree that the involved team should give their view. Even better they (both) should do this before voting starts as the vid doesn't give all the info.

But thats no reason why they should vote. Thats like asking McLaren to vote against hamilton. Its just not done. It gives a bad taste.
Problem is that they might vote way less severe when one of their drivers involved then they do with exact same incident when the are not involved. So yes ask TS (both) to give their view but keep them from voting, no point realy as it doesn't make a difference like you say Xosé.
It only gives a bad taste in my view.

In a court both involved parties don't vote either, the jury does .

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

ah well, but then again the first post war german chancellor only won the election in parliament because he voted for himself

 

[Tom Ilsbroux]

ah well, but then again the first post war german chancellor only won the election in parliament because he voted for himself

Still doesn't answer what is the point of the involved TS voting.

Every and I mean every new team (just look it up) entering STC asks if you must vote for a penalty where they are involved. This is for a reason they all feel its not correct.