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Remembering the AI...

Discussion in 'Automobilista' started by Emery, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Emery

    Emery

    Messages:
    1,153
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    Racing AI is one of those things that it seems any racing game other than "multiplayer only" should be a priority for a studio releasing a racing game.

    I've been driving AC more in the past couple weeks because I finally got the FFB to a decent point and there's all that content to explore... but the AI is still lame. Barely tolerable, they kind of resemble drunk online drivers the way they aimlessly weave around and occasionally go way off track. Tuck your nose under one and they politely get out of your way, most, but not all of the time, with the occasional "no, YOU should move for me" act. AI overtaking each other is comical, especially when there is a blue flag... the overtaking car will wait 5-10 seconds before the pass occurs on a wide straight. I'm not sure, but it seems like the AI cars going offtrack or occasionally cutting never get the same slowdown penalty that the player would get.

    pCARS 2 has been out and the design decision of using three stages of program to handle the first lap, the race, and then the last lap is blatantly evident. The cars can't merge together to file through T1 cleanly, instead they go double file a car's width apart with the inside line cutting the corners without penalty until the merge is complete a turn or two later. Ostensibly this is to avoid an AI pileup in T1, but on many tracks that still occurs. After today's much vaunted patch, the second since pCARS 2 release that directly addresses AI behavior, the AI still has this robotic behavior that was evident in the original pCARS. Haven't seen any post-patch reports of the AI oval behavior, but it was so bad before the patch release that any improvement will be amazing. On the positive side, once you get past the opening lap, they appear better behaved than AC's AI. Until the AI improve, I'm not pulling the trigger on buying pCARS 2 unless there's a good Steam sale (or I end up being coerced by some league into wanting to drive with them).

    I haven't played R3E in ages due to their lack of triple screen support (coming soon I hear), so won't bother with comments other than they were better than AC & pCARS 2 the last time I did try them.

    So it was a great pleasure today when I ran a couple races in AMS! A very worthwhile experience, with the AI not making any weird robotic moves, able to merge from the start line into T1 without any pileups, and completely feeling like I was being challenged in a live race. Such a breath of fresh air that Reiza needs to be complimented on their ability to constantly improve the product.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 5
  2. pavig

    pavig
    Premium

    Messages:
    10
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    AMS is the sim that got me back into racing. Last time I messed about with driving sims was probably 15 years ago, but last year picked up PCars, and then AC to give them a go. Despite some improvements on the AC front, only AMS seems to have some life in it. The AI still has bugs, but it will race you for the most part like a real person - ie someone who wants to win a race without trading too much paint along the way. It'll put up a fight without running you off the road. So refreshing to play a sim you can't just divebomb every corner or squeeze opponents off their line to win, or alternately have them drive like they're on rails. Well done Reiza. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  3. gambolmaker

    gambolmaker

    Messages:
    21
    Ratings:
    +14
    I got AMS about a week ago. Just now I did a 30 lap race at Lime Rock with the URD T5 Mod and the 2016 DTM skins.
    About halfway through the (very close) race, a car comes up behind me on the main straight. Rockenfellers car, bright yellow and green, I can't confuse it with another car.
    The AI driver pulls himself into my slipstream and goes left. I see this in the mirrors, so I go left aswell to block him.
    In most sims, I wouldn't go left, because I know the AI won't try to pass me. His top speed is similar to mine, he'll tuck in behind me and maybe try at the corner if I make a mistake. In some sims he might even brake. But I've found the AMS AI pleasantly aggressive, so I thought he just might try to pass me. That's why I blocked.

    Well, he didn't. He feigned it. He went right and passed me there.

    I paused and watched the replay. And I watched it again. And again.

    My first racing sim was grand Prix 2, back in 1997. 20 years ago. I've been simracing ever since then, through the various generations of sims. I've had fun races with the AI, I've had boring races with the AI. I've exited races because of bad AI behaviour. I've tried tinkering with the games to make the AI better.

    In 20 years I have never had an AI driver make a deceptive move. Never. This was the most amazing thing I've ever seen in offline simracing.
    And it didn't come from the oh so realistic Assetto Corsa, or the oh so hyped PCars. It came from this little ugly duckling of a sim that's based on a ten year old engine.

    Thank you Reiza for this mind blowing experience :cool:

    (Oh and I finished the race dead last, because my left front tire died about 3 laps from the end. But that's another story...:D)
     
    • Like Like x 12
    • Love Love x 1
  4. craigbowie1

    craigbowie1

    Messages:
    20
    Ratings:
    +1
    The updates that REZIA has been putting out for the AI in terms of passing, blue flags etc have been excellent... great improvments over the last few updates!
    They just need to sort the fuel, pitting issues they have with the Super V8s. Believe its happening with a few other cars to.
     
  5. pitkin

    pitkin

    Messages:
    33
    Ratings:
    +7
    They are definitely a big improvement over the AI from a few months ago, but I find them a bit too "polite" if you get on the inside of them into a corner. I'd like to see them hold their line more rather than dive out of the way or back off.

    But saying that, I had some enjoyable racing with the AI last night, it's among the best right now, hopefully it can be tweaked just a little more.
     
  6. Lorencini

    Lorencini

    Messages:
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    I've already passed this issue to the dev team at Reiza Beta forum, they are aware of the problem and hopefully they're gonna have a fix in next patch. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
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    +158
    What Aggression setting are you using?

    I find that they will hold their line and even squeeze you sometimes if you are on the inside. Huge improvement over the previous situation where the AI would ignore that you were there and consistently ruin races by attempting to drive through you. Good racers are aware of idiots behind them and stay out of their way. I have been thankful of the AI dodging my stupidity (usually too-late braking into a corner) rather than holding their position and having us both knocked out of the race as a result. They generally believe in the old racing adage of, "to finish first, one must first finish" :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Lorencini

    Lorencini

    Messages:
    218
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    +306
    With Stock Car 2017, I tend to use medium aggression.
    With Marcas, I'm using high aggression.

    I'm having pretty good experiences in both series.
     
  9. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
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    +158
    FYI, I default to Max and only turn it down if I experience a problem. So far, none, but I haven't explored all the series in race conditions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. pitkin

    pitkin

    Messages:
    33
    Ratings:
    +7
    I've been using high aggression.
    I find that if you put your nose up the inside they will sometimes turn away and end up going off track, or putting a wheel on the grass and spinning. It just seems a bit easy to scare them. I've found Brands Hatch to be the worst circuit for this so far. I'm not going to complain too much though, I'm glad of the effort with the AI and what has already been done is a massive improvement.
    Maybe I'll put it up to max and see what happens.

    Update:
    On watching the replay, the AI actually seem to understeer off track when I get on the inside. Looks like they are trying to turn in...
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  11. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
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    +158
    There are still some issues. Just not sure whether anything else will get tweaked or improved for 1.5 or whether we will more likely have to wait for the next title to get the step-change improvement we'd all love to have now?

    I and others have long reported the "too easy to scare from behind" issue, though. It is drastically improved from before, but still remains to some extent. It was infuriating before when the cars would jump out of your way when you came up from behind them, but drive right into you when you were alongside or in front. I even thought the sensors were reversed or something, because the awareness to the rear was greater than that to the front or side (within peripheral vision).
     
  12. muzarati

    muzarati

    Messages:
    344
    Ratings:
    +28
    Try reducing down the courtesy figure in the talent file