Rear wing after update ?

randy66 · Oct 9, 2015

Before the update I was diving the BMW Z4GT3 @ Monza . I not a fast driver, just try to be consistent. I use a lot of wing to keep the car controlled, maybe 6 or 7 . I found the setups here and tried some posted by Tal Sarig. I cound'nt get a handle on them with the less wing used. With the new update my setup was 2 seconds off my pace. My gearing was off and had to go higher by two on the final. I was able to take the wing to 0 step by step and the car was faster but still slower than normal. So I loaded Tal Sarig setup. the game said it was low, so I upped the front and rear. On track the gearing was off, hit 6 way early. I went back and adjusted by 2 and took the rear wing to 0. I was able to do my best time in game ever. Just seems weird and way easier to drive. I'm not complaining , just wondering if anyone has similar experience?

Matheus Machado · Oct 9, 2015

All the old setups are just garbage right now.
I just lost a full 5 sec with the 458 GT2 at Spa. Also can't see how achieving a 2:19 is possible right now. I was in the high 2:16s before the update.

randy66 · Oct 9, 2015

Matheus Machado said:
All the old setups are just garbage right now.
I just lost a full 5 sec with the 458 GT2 at Spa. Also can't see how achieving a 2:19 is possible right now. I was in the high 2:16s before the update.

Yeah the old setups just don't apply now. Did you try taking the rear wing out ?. Just did it with the Nissan GT3 car and I'm much faster than before update. And I didn't like that car before. Good luck with the new setups, hope ya share them =)

Matheus Machado · Oct 9, 2015

Too slow in corners. Definitely the new tire model has something lacking at high speeds. But it is phenomenal at low speeds.

Borbor · Oct 10, 2015

i can't speak for other cars because i run a 12C-GT3 in a league this season and that's the only car i'm focused on right now

1.2.6 the LD ratio is -3.7 it doesn't quite deviate from it running anywhere from 0-1 to 1-4; the Cd changes maybe from 0.8 to 0.85 iirc But max total downforce I saw was over 1000

1.3.1 at the same sweeps I haven't seen over 600; and LD is now down to -2.7ish at the top of 6th gear for an old spa setup (now bounces off at 250kph) the Cd is lower and each click of rear wing has a more significant change to the Cd.

I'm surprised you found it easier to drive; because I feel the opposite. On full fuel on hards on a cold track it is damn near impossible to drive fast AND keep the graining to a reasonable level. It's a bit more manageable on meds but one slide and the blister starts creeping in. I've never seen the blister creep that fast in the old tire model; and you didn't have to bring them up to temps as gingerly. It doesn't bother me per se, as I just have to find a new workflow for it, but it is a huge difference and I don't find it as forgiving.

randy66 · Oct 10, 2015

Borbor I'm more of a casual racer, your putting the car much more on edge than me for sure.
Matheus Machado said Definitely the new tire model has something lacking at high speeds. But it is phenomenal at low speeds. Maybe the reason it feels better to me.
I felt the circumference of the tire had gotten smaller. had to up frame heights. Maybe that affected acceleration and top speed?
The cars I played with just felt better to me. Maybe now I can feel more comfortable with them and pick up some speed and better habits.

mclarenf1papa · Oct 11, 2015

Matheus Machado said:
Too slow in corners. Definitely the new tire model has something lacking at high speeds. But it is phenomenal at low speeds.

That's the point of the new tire model...it's correct now. Also apparently tire flex is much bigger now at speed (which is why gear ratios are different than before)

Cristian Haba · Oct 13, 2015

mclarenf1papa said:
That's the point of the new tire model...it's correct now. Also apparently tire flex is much bigger now at speed (which is why gear ratios are different than before)

It feels more correct now, you can 'lean' on the tire much more and it represents what happens on the track when looking closely ex. Blancpain. But can you elaborate a bit on how that might affect cars not reaching their previous speeds on straights. I think a bunch of changes happened that were not all depicted in the change log aerodynamic efficiency and drag being some of them. Also how can I enable those 'dev apps' for tires and suspension I could do it before but now they're gone.

Cristian Haba · Oct 13, 2015

Just read Borbor's post again, it's making more sense now. What does LD stand for?

mclarenf1papa · Oct 13, 2015

Cristian Haba said:
It feels more correct now, you can 'lean' on the tire much more and it represents what happens on the track when looking closely ex. Blancpain. But can you elaborate a bit on how that might affect cars not reaching their previous speeds on straights. I think a bunch of changes happened that were not all depicted in the change log aerodynamic efficiency and drag being some of them. Also how can I enable those 'dev apps' for tires and suspension I could do it before but now they're gone.

Cristian Haba said:
Just read Borbor's post again, it's making more sense now. What does LD stand for?

Well, tires deform 3x more than they should right now...something is wrong with them for some reason.

LD = lift to drag ratio

Cristian Haba · Oct 13, 2015

How did you arrive at 3x more, was this a before and after test with 1.2? Or comparing real life data? I like the new elasticity I can feel especially after/during a bump that the tires go over. That stiff bounce is less pronounced now and it feels like the tire keeps in contact with the racing surface while compressing and decompressing and the suspension now is doing 'more' work maybe. I'm not a physics expert but that's what I gather from my experience with 1.3.

Matheus Machado · Oct 13, 2015

@Cristian Haba You have to enable dev apps again in the config.ini file!

Matheus Machado · Oct 13, 2015

mclarenf1papa said:
Well, tires deform 3x more than they should right now...something is wrong with them for some reason.

LD = lift to drag ratio

Do you think that affects some sudden oversteer on understeer running high speeds specifically?
Can this be related to the fact that suspension app shows a red bar for tyre friction (limit) and it still can handle higher speeds when turning, as there is more/less tire patch contact with the ground?
From my personal experience increasing pressure to high levels 28+ psi is doing wonders for tires behavior, completely opposed to the old tire model, as I used to run less than 20 psi on medium compounds.

Cristian Haba · Oct 13, 2015

I've tried running higher PSI on the GTR at Monza but I didnt notice and drastic improvement. Are you talking about long high speed bends like at Spa?

Matheus Machado · Oct 13, 2015

Cristian Haba said:
I've tried running higher PSI on the GTR at Monza but I didnt notice and drastic improvement. Are you talking about long high speed bends like at Spa?

All tracks in general. Noticed more effect on tracks with drastic turns, being high speed or not. Catalunya in the middle sector and Spa first sector are good examples.
The Huracan lift off oversteer also becomes a lot more predictable.

mclarenf1papa · Oct 13, 2015

Cristian Haba said:
How did you arrive at 3x more, was this a before and after test with 1.2? Or comparing real life data? I like the new elasticity I can feel especially after/during a bump that the tires go over. That stiff bounce is less pronounced now and it feels like the tire keeps in contact with the racing surface while compressing and decompressing and the suspension now is doing 'more' work maybe. I'm not a physics expert but that's what I gather from my experience with 1.3.

Tires should only deflect so much; they have a vertical stiffness, so you can calculate the deflection very easily from that. Currently in one test I did, the deflection with that load should have been only 8mm, it was 24mm in AC. You can especially see this on the new Ruf(s) - they end up running on their rims at times...