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RDHGP S4 - Race 7 - Jarama, Spain - 11/02/10

Discussion in 'GT Legends' started by Stuart Thomson, Sep 11, 2009.

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  1. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium

    Welcome to Round 7 of the RDHGP S4

    Welcome back to the 2009 RDHGP S4, and to the last Thursday race of the season.

    Before I get into the guts of the briefing, some of you might not have noticed why Kris Leeten did not participate at Österreichring, It is because he became a father, so the very best wishes from all at RDHGP to you and your newly expanded family, Kris.

    After a couple of races where I ended up having to moan a bit, Österreichring feels like it was a total success, no incidents and accidents, no hints nor allegations. The track is a corker, probably better than the 79 version because of that fast T1, and it will probably be used much more regularly by me, probably in the not-too-distant future. I was, I have to admit, always going to be dreading this race (not the track – I love the track) in my little Escort, but picking tracks that suited my car is not what all this ever was, or is, about. I was glad to see Tom & Carlos get somewhere where the Beemers great engine could do it’s stuff without being compromised by it’s less than agile handling, and where Ivo could really open the taps on his ‘vette (just a shame that his tyres didn’t hold out). My heart went out to Hans after he fell foul of the GTL bladder disease.

    Again I was delighted to not see the dread topic of cutting raising it’s ugly head at all before, during or after the event. The only mention was a minor query that required some very minor clarification. You once again have my thanks for that.

    And, I am pleased to say, people seemed in general to realise that they win nothing on Lap1 and the driving standards seemed to be back to where they ought to be. Yes, there are (and were) accidents, but we are talking spins and mistakes rather than rash or ill-advised dives into gaps half the size of your car.

    I love writing my introductions where everything is not only fine, but also a large dollop of dandy. So please - let’s keep that going for these last 2 races.

    While I have your attention, I’m going to use this space as a word from our sponsors, as our American cousins say on TV:

    RDHTC Season 5 begins with a Testing event on Thu 15th April, with Round 1 on 29th April.
    7 x 100km races on alternate Thursdays, finishing with a 200km event finale on Sat 31st July.
    TC65 class of cars – Alfa GTA, Austin Mini Cooper S, Fiat Abarth TCR, Ford Falcon & Mustang, Lotus Cortina, NSU TT, Toyota Corolla.
    Car choice now open via PM only.

    I hope I will see most, hopefully all, of you on the Grid for Season 5, where I think the cars I’m using, are not only extremely well matched against each other, but much more controllable than their higher powered brethren. Both of these facts are conducive to close racing, so I don’t think it unreasonable to anticipate that the proven RDHTC format, along with the best cars in GTL, and the best, most courteous drivers on RD, will combine to produce something spectacular.

    Now back to our regular programming.

    We move south-west from Austria to Spain for Round 7, in the form of the Circuit de Jarama. The intricate arabesques and curlicues of the Castillian track provide the starkest possible contrast to the Österreichring’s brutally simple, high speed layout. Also, because of the relatively slow speeds during a lap, it provides yet another contrast to Austria, as it will be one of the longer timed races in the 100km class.

    In addition, I will be posting a poll regarding Le Mans, and what conditions you want to drive it in. I’m not sure I want to muck about using accelerated times, but I can set the start time so we get a gradual change in atmospherics. We ran a Le Mans event like that in the past and it worked quite well.


    Circuit Notes

    Built in 1967 on arid scrubland north of Madrid, Circuit de Jarama has some illustrious siblings, being designed by John Hugenholtz, the creator of both Zandvoort & Suzuka.

    It has hosted the Spanish Grand Prix in the past, but the combination of extensive mechanical grip aided by increasingly efficient aero meant that passing was not always possible. An example of this was when Gilles Villeneuve, genius though he was, successfully defended the lead in 1981 from lights to flag despite there being a tail of 4 significantly faster cars behind him.
    Happily, this will not be a problem to burden the RDHGP, as early 80’s F1 standards of grip and aero are not something we tend to be troubled by, especially in, for instance, a Ford Escort. I fully expect the layout and the cars to provide ample passing opportunities.

    Jarama also has very wide (and in this incarnation, yellow/blue) kerbs that –deliberately– intrude onto what would be the ideal racing line, to make the track even more complex. I’ll say it now – these kerbs are NOT deemed as part of the track, you must keep 2 wheels on the tarmac at all times. There are no other types of kerb on the lap, so there should be no further clarifications needed.

    The Start/Finish line is near the end of the home straight and leads into a double apexed left hander, T1aL (Nuvolari) & T1bL (Fangio). The shortness of the run from the grid to this turn should prevent too much conflict on Lap 1, as we won’t be nearing anywhere near full chat.

    Out of Fangio and a quick squirt of straight until you cross the first of 3 kinks around the lap T2R, Varzi. Negotiate Varzi and you have another quick dab of throttle until you need to brake for T3L, Le Mans.

    This pretty standard hairpin opens out onto what looks like it might be a straight but is, in fact, pretty much just a braking zone for what I think might be the tightest corner of the RDHGP season, T4R, Farina. Depending on your car and gearing, you may even be down in 1st for this corner.

    Another very short link takes us to T5L, Pegaso. This is a faster corner, and one that opens up onto a decent straight, Rampa Pegaso, split by the second of those kinks, T6R, Ascari. The circuit used to turn hard right here, until 1990, when it was extended into its current configuration so that it bears left through Ascari, in a curved braking zone for T7R, Portago

    Accelerating out of Portago takes us to the last of the 3 kinks, T8L Bugatti, and from there down into T9L Pegio, another hairpin.

    From there, it’s a short burst of acceleration and into the double apexed T10R Monza, itself leading onto another short straight and into the final turn, T11R Tunel, a medium speed corner which opens onto the relatively short Start/Finish straight.

    So, nearly double the number of corners that we had in Austria, on a track nearly half as short.


    The Race Director has some notes for drivers. Please see the track map above for location of Race Direction note:-

    · All Corners Without Exception – The kerbs are no longer deemed as track, therefore 2 wheels must be within the white lines, on the tarmac, At All Times. Again, there are NO exceptions to this rule at any point on the circuit. Any exception to this rule is deemed illegal, any advantage gained by this method must be ceded immediately.

    · T2R – Varzi, T6R – Ascari, T8L - Bugatti. As mentioned in the lap description, these kinks are bordered by some very wide kerbs, easily wide enough to take a cars width completely. Which I’m now (obviously) going to tell you that you are not allowed to do, as you must have 2 wheels on the tarmac at all times. These kinks make the short straights more difficult, they have been put there for a reason, so we will respect that. Please report anyone you see persistently straight-lining over the kerbs through the kinks.

    · T4R – Farina. Very, very slow corner, and by now, you are expected to know the parameters that both your and your opponents car can operate under, including braking distances. I do not want to see anyone being punted from behind in the braking zone for this tight corner.

    Incidents, Investigations and Penalties

    There were no Incident Reports from the Österreichring event.

    There are 3 new no-show infractions arising from Österreichring

    Leszek Porzezinski
    Piotrek Blaszczak
    Predrag Drobac

    There are 4 drivers carrying infractions (number of races left to serve in brackets).

    Marius Bentu (3)
    Sam J Simpson (3)
    Ben Tusting (3)
    Bert Van Waes (3)

    The following 3 drivers are now clear of the infraction they were carrying through Austria:-

    Arkadiusz Kotarski
    Lee Madden
    Matt Crouch

    Any further infractions will result in removal from the League, and therefore missing the finale at Le Mans.

    The following 2 drivers have been removed from the League due to a second no-show infraction.

    Simon Bacon
    Stuart Neal

    All No-show infractions will be carried for 4 events, after which time they will be rescinded. A further infraction will result in removal from the League.

    Please remember, the League staff will only review incidents if they are reported to them.

    No report = no review.

    Please try and remember the incident reporting guidelines: review, cool off, review again. Only after following the above process, and if you are convinced you still need to report it, should you let the League staff know. Please give as much information as possible during the report (time of incident, drivers involved etc.)

    Any accusations or complaints aired in the Chat during or after a race will mean a penalty levied on the person complaining or making the accusations, even if a subsequent official complaint gets found in their favour. I simply will NOT tolerate any post race finger pointing.


    You have chosen your car and livery already, and you must only drive your chosen car at any time during an RDHGP event. Every driver has a unique livery in this season of RDHGP.

    Scoring System

    I have extended the points distribution method down to P20 (75% distance completion required) so people can fight for some points no matter where they are on the track, and hopefully have a season long battle with people around them in the League.

    The Distribution is as follows (double for the 200km event):

    P1 - 25 pts
    P2 - 22
    P3 - 20
    P4 - 18
    P5 - 16
    P6 - 15
    P7 - 14
    P8 - 13
    P9 - 12
    P10 - 11
    P11 - 10
    P12 - 9
    P13 - 8
    P14 - 7
    P15 - 6
    P16 - 5
    P17 - 4
    P18 - 3
    P19 - 2
    P20 - 1

    1 point for fastest race lap (not double on 200km event)

    1 point for qualifying on Pole (not double on 200km event)
  2. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium

    Thread open.
  3. great intro as always Stuart

    as for the track after quick review I have some concerns about cutting, those wide kerbs might bring some controversy
  4. Congrats Kris. :)
    Clear info again Stu, thanks. :)
  5. Congratulations Kris!

    Another excellent briefing Stuart
  6. Congratulations Dad Kris :smile: Plenty of sleepless nights ahead mate.

    Top briefing Stu, well done.
  7. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium

    Well, ahead of the race, all I can do is point the issues out, to be honest.

    If people choose to ignore them, they are then, basically, a cheat.
  8. Carlos Diaz

    Carlos Diaz
    Happily driving a "girly" car

    As always, top notch work Stu.

    And grats on the new addition to the family Kris!
  9. Grats Kris, and thanks Stu for a great briefing.
  10. did some practice laps and this track is going to bring good fights for sure. about cutting the kerbs i would like to discuss this issue: the track is narrow and in some points it is very hard not to go over the kerbs with 4 wheels while fighting during the race or trying to make a good time, i have no doubt that during the race cutting will happen during the fights. my point is this: in real life racing going 4 wheels on the kerbs is not considerd as cutting so why is it considerd as cheating here in the race leagues?there is a cut track sign when one misses the corner complitly so why can't we just forget about this rule especialy for this track? i found my self during the practice being more carefull not to go over the kerbs with 4 whells and less enjoying the race. therefor i suggest that th e2 wheell on kerb rule only will be dropped. i would like to see your views on that subject.
  11. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium

    I will not be dropping the "2 wheels on the track at all times" rule.

    If 4 wheels on the kerb happens during fights, the driver who did it is not fighting fairly against the one with at least 2 wheels on the tarmac. If it gets reported, the driver that uses 4 wheels on the kerb gets penalised.

    Look at it this way, if anyone feel that the rules I'm laying down are draconian, that they won't be able to adhere to them, and that they will only be able enjoy the race if they can drive across the kerbs, they should please allocate themselves as not participating, and we'll see each other at Le Mans.
  12. why is it that everytime i make an argument i feel like you stuart take it personaly. that is not my point. i think there is a point and diffrent view in what i posted earlier. you think diffrent ok but let me express my view.
  13. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium

    Everyone is welcome in the League, and you are wanted Amir. I said that if you thought that these rules would not be fun for you, I'd see you at Le Mans. The "you" in my post referred to whomever was reading my post, as it has to be when it concerns a restatement of the rules. It was not directly addressed at you = Amir. I will change the "you" in my response to something more general, like "anyone" to avoid any further confusion.

    As for the brevity of my response, I just didn't think my going into the full ins and outs of my decisions would be particularly enervating for anyone.

    Yes, you expressed your view, but you intimated that the rules I have stipulated are bad or ill-conceived rules, that they remove the fun from the event and that your rules would be better.

    At that point, even though I probably could if I wanted to, I still didn't take anything personally.

    But because you've taken exception to my response, I probably do need to expand on the "hows, whys and wheres" of my decision, so my meaning is totally clear.

    I don't see the difference between me saying "Here are the rules we will all use", up front, clearly, so everyone knows what they are, rules which avoid any possible ambivalence, as opposed to whatever has been coded into the track. We've all experienced a few less than consistent bits of coding on that front.

    Those, you might not find out until you start during the race, because no amount of hotlapping makes you drive some of the unusual lines that traffic forces you through. If I relaxed the rules to allow full kerb driving, you may well get pushed across the coded-in cut threshold by someone barrelling across the kerb on all 4 wheels, and giving you a Stop & Go.

    Technically, in a lot of circumstances, the person forcing you into the cut would be legal (if they were in front, not weaving, holding the racing line etc.), your race could / would be ruined, and you'd have no recourse through incident reporting. In that situation, you'd have had your extra "fun" by being able to drive across the kerbs, but the results of that probably spoiled your race even more.

    That is the level I have to think about during track choice, briefings, rules & regs.

    I have to think of the ramifications of decisions like that, I don't pick these things on a whim.

    Again, if people don't think that they can adhere to the rules that I've laid down (and the majority clearly have thus far judgung by the responses and lack of comment about the cutting rules), or that those rules will adversely affect their enjoyment of this event, no-one is being forced to participate.

    Again, I have to respond to the group rather than directly at one person once the question of rules is being discussed, as it affects all drivers.

    In this situation, I don't think it was me who took things personally.
  14. From my experience (and I have had some exp. being a League Admin), we need consistent and clear rules to make sure everyone knows what is expected. As soon as you introduce variability for specific circumstances (eg. a specific track) you end up with lots of confusion and subsequent arguments. You can bet your life that if you make a rule deviation for one specific race, someone won't have been aware of it and then the debates start. It is essential to start with a known set of rules, make sure everyone knows them, be consistent, and enforce them. It ends up best for everyone, competitors and administrators.

    The current cutting rules have been established for this League, I think everyone is clear about them (some even punished), so it would only be fair to all involved to maintain them. Besides, this cutting rule is totally consistent with all other Leagues I have seen, and consistent with RD Rules for Leagues and Racing Club Events, and also consistent with clean, fair, racing standards (on-line racing ).

    I personally don't have any issues with the cutting rules, it is how I learn to drive all tracks, and I would hope all other drivers would be the same. Whatever the cutting rule is, I would think all drivers can quickly adapt to those driving lines.

    PS: I have made the above comment without even driving one lap at this track yet. I suppose I had better download and install this one soon. :wink:
  15. Carlos Diaz

    Carlos Diaz
    Happily driving a "girly" car

    I agree with Warren completely.
    I know that a some of the tracks almost force you onto the kerb, and it becomes challenging to stay off of them, but in a way the challenge makes it more interesting, at least to me.

    Would we all have faster lap times if we would be able to completely drive the kerb? Very likely.
    But since we are competing against EACH OTHER and not the CLOCK, the fact that we all have to keep 2 wheels on the track at all times will not affect anyone's position on the track. If only some of us were following the rule then I could see how the rule followers would be at a disadvantage. But luckily, since we are all fair and clean drivers here, all of us have been doing a great job of following it, so no one has the upper hand.

    I also understand and agree with Stu about the S&Gs. If you are driving at the track's limit, it would be much easier to overstep the boundaries and ruin your race, even without the help of anyone else. Now factor in that sometimes we are going into a turn 2 cars wide and that's just room for disaster to strike.

    It's good that you voice your opinions and thoughts Amir, as a member of this league they are valuable to us all. It's fine to have disagreements on any subject as long as we discuss them in a civil manner and a common ground is reached by all.

    Compromise is a necessary evil since you can't please everybody all the time, but we can at least please most.
  16. Many thanks! Here's a proud father showing of Lukas Leeten:
    Lukas 017b.jpg

    Baby & mummie are doing all fine, he's now 1 week old and is growing fast :)
  17. Congrats Kris :smile:
  18. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium


    We have been informed that i3d.net will be performing some maintenance on the servers during Thursday 9th Feb.

    Hopefully the League Race will be unaffected by this, but if we are affected, the following conditions will apply:-

    1. Server affected before Event start (20.00 GMT) - no action
    2. Server affected after event start during Practice - Practice will restart, qualification to begin at normal time (20.40 GMT)
    3. Server affected during Qualification - Server will be reset, Qualification session set to 10 mins and restarted.
    4. Server affected during Race - Race will be scrubbed and rescheduled.

  19. Is it Thursday the 11th or Tuesday the 9th?
  20. Stuart Thomson

    Stuart Thomson
    The Stoat Without Fear ™ Premium

    We're awaiting clarification - I've got another event on the 9th as well, hence my confusion, but it could be either until we get further communication
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