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RD GT5 Championship S2 - Archive

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5' started by Ross Garland, Dec 10, 2011.

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  1. [​IMG]

    League: RaceDepartment GT5 Championship
    Season: 2 (2012)
    Game Required: Gran Turismo 5 (PS3)
    Number of Divisions: 1


    Introduction

    A new year is fast approaching, and so is a new GT5 championship! Season 2 will use the super sleek and ultra fast Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, racing modified for even greater performance. Your skills will be put to the test over five rounds featuring tracks from around the world. Can you tame the beast and come out ahead of the pack?


    Registration

    Registration Thread

    There are fourteen (14) positions available for this championship and it is open to all licensed members. However, the staff reserve the right to decide who will actually participate. Full details on how to register can be found in the Registration Thread.

    Registration Open: 12th December 2011
    Registration Closed: 31st December 2011
    Publication of Drivers: 2nd January 2012


    Drivers & Teams

    The RaceDepartment GT5 Championship S2 is for single driver entries only.


    Vehicles & Liveries

    Vehicle Regulations Thread

    This is a single model championship using a racing modified Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. Your vehicle must meet the vehicle regulations exactly in order to be eligible for the championship. If your vehicle is found to be in breach of the regulations or using unapproved upgrades, you will be immediately disqualified from the championship. You may also be banned from future championships.

    All drivers must use a unique number and colour for their car. These must be stated when you register for the championship, ensuring that you do not choose a number and colour already reserved by another driver. In addition, you may not choose any number between 1-10. If you do choose a previously reserved number or colour then the staff will assign you one instead.


    Shakedown

    There will be one or more shakedown events held before the championship begins. All championship participants are obligated to attend these events as they are designed to detect the connection issues that some users have with GT5. If you suffer from these problems and they cannot be resolved then you may be asked to give your position in the championship to a reserve driver.


    Calendar

    Shakedown: Grand Valley Speedway - 8th January 2012

    Round 1: Laguna Seca Raceway - 15th January 2012
    Round 2: Autodromo Nazionale Monza - 22nd January 2012
    Round 3: Nürburgring GP/F - 29th January 2012
    Round 4: Suzuka Circuit - 5th February 2012
    Round 5: Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps - 12th February 2012


    Event Format

    Event Format Thread

    Practice: 19:30 GMT (30 Minutes)
    Qualifying: 20:05 GMT (15 Minutes)
    Race: 20:25 GMT


    Points table

    P1: 20
    P2: 17
    P3: 15
    P4: 13
    P5: 11
    P6: 10
    P7: 9
    P8: 8
    P9: 7
    P10: 6
    P11: 5
    P12: 4
    P13: 3
    P14: 2

    No points are awarded for pole position or the fastest lap.


    Absence

    This is the most important part of the briefing that you need to understand! If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status at RaceDeparment.


    Championship Regulations

    Championship Regulations Thread

    The Championship Regulations are laid out in a document for the 2012 seasons. As the regulations differ from the club rules, everyone must read them before registering.
     
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    Racing can be complicated and difficult situations arise in nearly every event. RaceDepartment uses the following rules on driving standards and driver behaviour. Failure to follow these rules will result in penalties for the offending drivers. Penalties may include time penalties, point deductions, race disqualification, and removal from the championship.


    The Track and Cutting

    Racing happens on the track, not off the track. The track is a strip of tarmac edged by clear lines, usually white but sometimes yellow. Everything outside of these lines is not part of the track. This includes curbstones, grass areas, gravel traps, walls and tarmac or concrete outside of the lines. On occasions in which there are no lines, the track edge is defined by the curbstones, grass areas, gravel traps or walls; whatever is nearest.

    Drivers must always, whilst being in control of their car, remain within the track edges and thus over the track surface with at least two wheels. If a driver puts all four wheels off of the track at any time, regardless of whether they are in a corner or on a straight, it is considered cutting the track. Cutting is forbidden at all times. Minor cutting offenses will result in a time penalty for the offending driver. Major or consistent cutting will result in disqualification from the race and potential point deductions.


    Overtaking and Defending

    Passing an opponent is harder than it looks and often results in tears. Therefore RaceDepartment uses some basic rules to prevent accidents. Failure to follow these rules may result in penalties such as point deductions and disqualification from the race.

    A) Overtaking means going past another vehicle, not through it. Drivers are not allowed to push cars out of the way in order to overtake them. Though contact may occasionally occur, it may not act as the means to make the pass.

    B) A driver may only attempt a pass when there is room to do so, and when the chance is reasonably high that it will be successful without contact. On road courses this means that the overtaking car must be able to get a significant overlap with the defending car before they reach the turn-in point of a corner.

    C) The defending driver may defend their position by changing lines once per straight. Weaving is stricly forbidden at all times. As soon as the overtaking car has overlap on a straight the defending driver may only use the width of the track between the overtaking car and the track boundary to move in, without applying physical force to widen it.


    Car signals

    Some cars come with a horn and/or headlights. To prevent drivers abusing these features to distract their opponents or display their frustration, they may not be used during the race. Doing so will result in a point deduction penalty. There are three exceptions to this rule.

    A) A faster driver may flash his headlights once at a slower driver to warn him that he is about to be lapped. You may also flash once after the pass to show thanks.

    B) When conditions get dark the headlights must go on until there is sufficient light to switch them off again.

    C) Flashing headlights and hitting the horn excessively is allowed after the race has finished.


    Pitstops

    The pitlane will be open between the second lap and the penultimate lap of each race. Drivers may make a pitstop at any time during this period. One pitstop per race is mandatory though drivers may make more than one if they choose. Failing to make the mandatory pitstop will result in disqualification from the race.

    When exiting the pitlane drivers may not cross the line that extends the pitwall at any time. This rule applies to all sessions and is to prevent crashes between drivers on track and drivers exiting the pits. Breaking this rule will result in a penalty such as a points deduction or disqualification from the race.


    Chatting

    To drive a race requires a certain amount of concentration. To make sure this concentration is not broken it is forbidden to chat during the qualification and race sessions. Only the staff may use chat to communicate important information to the drivers. There are no exceptions to this rule. Offenders will be penalised with point deductions.


    Exiting During the Race

    There may be occasions when a car is heavily damaged and unable to compete effectively. However, drivers are expected to make every attempt to continue as damage can be fully repaired by making a pit stop. While returning to the pits with heavy damage, drivers must apply extreme caution and allow other drivers to pass without hinderance.

    If a driver absolutely has to exit the race for any reason, they must move to a safe area off of the racing line (preferably off-track), stop their car, apply the handbrake, and then use the menu to return to the lobby. However, drivers must not exit the lobby under any circumstances! Doing so is extremely distracting for other people, so drivers will have to remain in the lobby until the end of the race. Exiting before this time will result in penalties such as point deductions and a disqualification from the next race.


    Reporting Incidents

    There may be occasions when the rules are violated. In such cases it is up to the drivers to report the violation. The staff encourage this and will only investigate incidents that are reported.

    No report = no investigation = no penalty

    A report can be sent to the staff via private message. It must always contain:
    • The name of the league: RD GT5 Championship S2
    • The name of driver being reported.
    • A short description of the incident, without rant.
    • The lap and location of the track on which the incident occurred.
    You must always send the report with your own forum account, and You can only send a report if you were actually in the race. Reports from outsiders or incomplete reports will be not be considered. After receiving a report the staff will investigate the incident and issue any relevant penalties.

    Reports must be sent within 24 hours of the of the race ending. Reports that are submitted too late may not be considered.
     
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    Your vehicle must meet these regulations exactly in order to be eligible for the championship. If your vehicle is found to be in breach of these regulations or using unapproved upgrades, you will be immediately disqualified from the championship. You may also be banned from future championships.

    Note that a new vehicle's BHP will increase slightly over time due to engine run-in. You may use the power limiter to compensate if your vehicle goes above the maximum power regulation. However, you may not use the limiter to allow the use of unnapproved upgrades (engine tuning, ECUs, exhausts, etc). You are not allowed to use ballast at any time.

    If you have any questions regarding the vehicle regulations, please ask them in the Q&A Thread.

    [​IMG]

    Vehicle: Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6) '09

    Race Modified: Yes

    Power: 700HP Maximum

    Weight: 1100KG Minimum

    Tyres: Racing Hard / Racing Medium / Racing Soft

    Driving Aids: All off - ABS 1 Maximum


    When viewing your car's setup screen it should look exactly like the following. Note that racing modification does include some weight reduction and engine tuning but it will not show up on the setup screen. If you see any weight reduction/engine tuning then it means you have added more after the RM process, which makes your car ineligible. If in doubt, buy a new car instead of using an old one.

    Body / Chassis

    Aerodynamics
    Ballast


    Engine

    Standard ECU
    Power Limiter


    Intake System

    Standard Intake Manifold
    Standard Air Filter


    Exhaust

    Standard Exhaust Manifold
    Standard Catalytic Converter
    Titanium Racing Exhaust


    Turbo Kits

    None


    Transmission

    Fully Customisable Transmission


    Drivetrain

    Clutch: Twin Plate
    Flywheel: Semi-Racing
    Fully Customisable LSD
    Carbon Propeller Shaft


    Suspension

    Fully Customisable Kit


    Brakes

    Brake Balance Controller


    Tyres

    Racing Tyres: All
     
  4. [​IMG]

    Regulation Settings
    • Car Restriction: Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6) '09
    • PP Restriction: N/A
    • HP Restriction: 700hp
    • Weight Restriction: 1100kg
    • Drivetrain Restriction: N/A
    • Tire Restriction: Racing Soft
    • Vehicle Tuning: Yes
    • All Driving Aids: Off - ABS 1 Maximum

    Event Settings
    • Laps: See Round Thread
    • Start Type: Grid Start
    • Grid Order: Fastest First
    • Race Finish Delay: 180sec
    • Mechanical Damage: Heavy
    • Slipstream Strength: Weak
    • Tyre/Fuel Depletion: On
    • Grip Reduction: Real

    Important: The rules below are necessary due to the way that GT5 works. Failure to follow them in full will invalidate the entire qualifying session. Anyone breaking these rules will be disqualified from the event and potentially from the rest of the championship.


    Practice Session - 19:30 GMT - 30 Minutes
    • Official practice will start at the exact time stated.
    • All participants must join the lobby during this 30 minute period.
    • Participants are free to chat, drive, tweak, or do whatever they like during this session.
    • You must finalise your setup and choose your tyres for qualifying / race start before the end of this session.

    Qualifying Session - 20:05 GMT - 15 Minutes
    • Once qualifying begins it is forbidden to join the event, registered or not.
    • It is forbidden to exit the track back to the main lobby.
    • It is forbidden to pit for tyres or fuel during this session.
    • To return to the pits from the track you must use the 'pause' menu to exit.
    • You must not stop on the track during qualifying. If you need a break, go to the pits.
    • When on an outlap, check your mirrors. If someone is on a timed lap, you must let them pass.
    • You must not chat during the qualifying session, either by text or by voice.

    Race Session - 20:25 GMT
    • The number of laps/races and the grid format will be detailed in the individual Round Threads.
    • The Championship Regulations must be followed at all times!
    • You must not chat during the race, either by text or by voice.
     
  5. [​IMG]

    All news released by the staff will be posted here:
    • League announcements
    • Race briefings
    • Race results
    • Last minute information
     
  6. [​IMG]

    A dedicated thread for all of your RaceDepartment GT5 Championship media releases:
    • Car presentations
    • Video race reports
    • Picture race reports
    • Etc...

    Please keep photos at 800px or less in width!
     
  7. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. [​IMG]

    Please ensure that you have fully read the following information before registering:

    Championship Information
    Championship Regulations
    Event Format


    There are fourteen (14) positions available for this championship and it is open to all licensed members. However, the staff reserve the right to decide who will actually participate. If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status on RaceDeparment.

    This championship is for single driver entries only. All drivers must use a unique number and colour for their car. These must be stated when you register for the championship, ensuring that you do not choose a number or colour already reserved by another driver. In addition, you may not choose any number between 1-10.

    Numbers and colours are reserved on a first come, first served basis. If you choose a previously reserved number or colour then the staff will assign you one instead, giving you no choice in the matter.

    The deadline for registering is 31st December 2011.

    To register, reply to this post by copy/pasting the following and adding your information:

    Driver Name:
    Car Number:
    Car Colour:
    Team Name:
    I have read all of the required information: Yes/No

    (If you do not wish to use a team name, put 'Independent Driver' instead.)

    [​IMG]

    Driver List

    1) Ross Garland - #80
    2) Bradley Vanian - #25
    3) Markus Hakamo - #81
    4) Peter Eriksson - #58
    5) Matthijs van Vendeloo - #17
    6) Vitor Mazzi - #22
    7) Scott Søvik - #55
    8) Aleksi Kivelä - #70
    9) Costandino Dino Antoniou - #32
    10) Dubravko Sparovec - #12
    11) Sam Righton - #14
    12) Matthew Schofield - #88
    13) Peter Beard - #51
    14) -

    Confirmed
    Unconfirmed


    Reserves

    None currently


    Withdrawn

    1) Allan Groth - Unknown
    2) Hyman Logan - Personal Matters
    3) Stuart Pocock - Broken PS3
     
  9. [​IMG]

    If you have any questions about the RD GT5 Championship, please post them here.

    Here are the answers to some questions that have already been asked:

    Q) How long are the races?

    A) An entire round from the beginning of the Practice Session to the end of the race will be approximately an hour and a half. The race itself will be approximately 45 minutes.


    Q) Is race modification of the car necessary?

    A) Yes it is. Race modification greatly changes many aspects of the cars performance, such as the weight and power. It also adds fully adjustable front and rear aero which is unavailable on the standard car.


    Q) Is a customisable LSD the only additional upgrade allowed?

    A) Yes. A number of other upgrades are added as part of the race modification process. The rest may not be used under any circumstances.


    Q) I've race modified my car but it is below the 700bhp restriction!

    A) Don't worry. All new cars will experience a slight increase in power as you drive them due to engine run-in. Go to Practice mode and hit the track. You will soon hit 700bhp.


    Q) I drove too much and am over the 700bhp restriction!

    A) You can use the power limiter to reduce the power. This is the only occasion on which the limiter may be used.


    Q) If driving adds wear to my car, how can I practice for upcoming races?

    A) Use your personal lobby. Driving in free run mode online does not add wear or mileage to your car. Using your lobby also means you will be driving in the exact same conditions as in the championship itself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. [​IMG]

    Use this thread for general chat and discusson on the RD GT5 Championship.
     
  11. [​IMG]

    Date: 12th February 2012
    Start Time: 19:30 GMT
    Track: Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps
    Weather: Dry

    Practice: 30 Minutes
    Qualification: 15 Minutes
    Race: 1 x 20 Laps
    Pit Stop: Mandatory


    Drivers

    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    6)
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10)
    11)
    12)
    13)
    14)


    Reserves

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    Race Briefing

    Please ensure that you have read and understood the Event Format before joining this event.


    Joining the Lobby

    You must join the lobby during the thirty (30) minute Practice Session (19:30 - 20:00 GMT). If you have not joined by this time then you must not do so, as connecting during qualifying will ruin the session. There are no exceptions to this rule. Break it and you risk being disqualified from the championship.


    Disconnections

    If you are disconnected during the Practice session then you may rejoin immediately. If you are disconnected during qualifying or the race itself then you must not attempt to rejoin. You will unfortunately have to forfiet the race.


    Start Procedure

    The races will use a standing start with false starts disabled.


    Pit Stop Procedure

    When exiting the pits during any session, you must not cross the white pit lane line. The mandatory pit stop can be made at any time between the second and penultimate lap of the race.


    Corner Cutting

    Two wheels must remain on the track at all times. The track edge is marked by white lines and/or curbs.


    Incidents

    If you are involved in an incident or feel that the rules have been broken, please do not raise a complaint during the event itself. Instead, report the incident to the Racing Staff after the event via PM. For details on the information you must include in an incident report, please see the Championship Regulations.


    Absence

    If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status on RaceDeparment.
     
  12. [​IMG]

    Date: 5th February 2012
    Start Time: 19:30 GMT
    Track: Suzuka Circuit
    Weather: Dry

    Practice: 30 Minutes
    Qualification: 15 Minutes
    Race: 1 x 22 Laps
    Pit Stop: Mandatory


    Drivers

    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    6)
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10)
    11)
    12)
    13)
    14)


    Reserves

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    Race Briefing

    Please ensure that you have read and understood the Event Format before joining this event.


    Joining the Lobby

    You must join the lobby during the thirty (30) minute Practice Session (19:30 - 20:00 GMT). If you have not joined by this time then you must not do so, as connecting during qualifying will ruin the session. There are no exceptions to this rule. Break it and you risk being disqualified from the championship.


    Disconnections

    If you are disconnected during the Practice session then you may rejoin immediately. If you are disconnected during qualifying or the race itself then you must not attempt to rejoin. You will unfortunately have to forfiet the race.


    Start Procedure

    The races will use a standing start with false starts disabled.


    Pit Stop Procedure

    When exiting the pits during any session, you must not cross the white pit lane line. The mandatory pit stop can be made at any time between the second and penultimate lap of the race.


    Corner Cutting

    Two wheels must remain on the track at all times. The track edge is marked by white lines and/or curbs.


    Incidents

    If you are involved in an incident or feel that the rules have been broken, please do not raise a complaint during the event itself. Instead, report the incident to the Racing Staff after the event via PM. For details on the information you must include in an incident report, please see the Championship Regulations.


    Absence

    If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status on RaceDeparment.
     
  13. [​IMG]

    Date: 29th January 2012
    Start Time: 19:30 GMT
    Track: Nürburgring GP/F
    Weather: Dry

    Practice: 30 Minutes
    Qualification: 15 Minutes
    Race: 1 x 22 Laps
    Pit Stop: Mandatory


    Drivers

    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    6)
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10)
    11)
    12)
    13)
    14)


    Reserves

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    Race Briefing

    Please ensure that you have read and understood the Event Format before joining this event.


    Joining the Lobby

    You must join the lobby during the thirty (30) minute Practice Session (19:30 - 20:00 GMT). If you have not joined by this time then you must not do so, as connecting during qualifying will ruin the session. There are no exceptions to this rule. Break it and you risk being disqualified from the championship.


    Disconnections

    If you are disconnected during the Practice session then you may rejoin immediately. If you are disconnected during qualifying or the race itself then you must not attempt to rejoin. You will unfortunately have to forfiet the race.


    Start Procedure

    The races will use a standing start with false starts disabled.


    Pit Stop Procedure

    When exiting the pits during any session, you must not cross the white pit lane line. The mandatory pit stop can be made at any time between the second and penultimate lap of the race.


    Corner Cutting

    Two wheels must remain on the track at all times. The track edge is marked by white lines and/or curbs.


    Incidents

    If you are involved in an incident or feel that the rules have been broken, please do not raise a complaint during the event itself. Instead, report the incident to the Racing Staff after the event via PM. For details on the information you must include in an incident report, please see the Championship Regulations.


    Absence

    If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status on RaceDeparment.
     
  14. [​IMG]

    Date: 22nd January 2012
    Start Time: 19:30 GMT
    Track: Autodromo Nazionale Monza
    Weather: Dry

    Practice: 30 Minutes
    Qualification: 15 Minutes
    Race: 1 x 25 Laps
    Pit Stop: Mandatory


    Drivers

    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    6)
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10)
    11)
    12)
    13)
    14)


    Reserves

    [​IMG]

    Race Briefing

    Please ensure that you have read and understood the Event Format before joining this event.


    Joining the Lobby

    You must join the lobby during the thirty (30) minute Practice Session (19:30 - 20:00 GMT). If you have not joined by this time then you must not do so, as connecting during qualifying will ruin the session. There are no exceptions to this rule. Break it and you risk being disqualified from the championship.


    Disconnections

    If you are disconnected during the Practice session then you may rejoin immediately. If you are disconnected during qualifying or the race itself then you must not attempt to rejoin. You will unfortunately have to forfiet the race.


    Start Procedure

    The races will use a standing start with false starts disabled.


    Pit Stop Procedure

    When exiting the pits during any session, you must not cross the white pit lane line. The mandatory pit stop can be made at any time between the second and penultimate lap of the race.


    Corner Cutting

    Two wheels must remain on the track at all times. The track edge is marked by white lines and/or curbs.


    Incidents

    If you are involved in an incident or feel that the rules have been broken, please do not raise a complaint during the event itself. Instead, report the incident to the Racing Staff after the event via PM. For details on the information you must include in an incident report, please see the Championship Regulations.


    Absence

    If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status on RaceDeparment.
     
  15. [​IMG]

    Date: 15th January 2012
    Start Time: 19:30 GMT
    Track: Laguna Seca Raceway
    Weather: Dry

    Practice: 30 Minutes
    Qualification: 15 Minutes
    Race: 1 x 30 Laps
    Pit Stop: Mandatory


    Drivers

    1)
    2)
    3)
    4)
    5)
    6)
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10)
    11)
    12)
    13)
    14)


    Reserves

    [​IMG]

    Race Briefing

    Please ensure that you have read and understood the Event Format before joining this event.


    Joining the Lobby

    You must join the lobby during the thirty (30) minute Practice Session (19:30 - 20:00 GMT). If you have not joined by this time then you must not do so, as connecting during qualifying will ruin the session. There are no exceptions to this rule. Break it and you risk being disqualified from the championship.


    Disconnections

    If you are disconnected during the Practice session then you may rejoin immediately. If you are disconnected during qualifying or the race itself then you must not attempt to rejoin. You will unfortunately have to forfiet the race.


    Start Procedure

    The races will use a standing start with false starts disabled.


    Pit Stop Procedure

    When exiting the pits during any session, you must not cross the white pit lane line. The mandatory pit stop can be made at any time between the second and penultimate lap of the race.


    Corner Cutting

    Two wheels must remain on the track at all times. The track edge is marked by white lines and/or curbs.


    Incidents

    If you are involved in an incident or feel that the rules have been broken, please do not raise a complaint during the event itself. Instead, report the incident to the Racing Staff after the event via PM. For details on the information you must include in an incident report, please see the Championship Regulations.


    Absence

    If you accept the invitation to drive in the championship then we expect you to be present for all races during the season. If you miss a round without giving at least two days notice then the staff reserve the right to remove you from the championship. You also risk termination of your licensed member status on RaceDeparment.
     
  16. Are all of these races on a sunday, because if they are i will not be able to make them :(
     
  17. If you check the dates, yes, they are on Sundays. Weekend events got more sign-ups in the club than weekdays, and we can't have a league in which some races are on one day and some are on another.
     
  18. Rui F. Martins

    Rui F. Martins
    Premium Member

    i have some questions:
    aproximately how long will the races be, and what time they will start?
    is there any problem to skip 1 round?
     
  19. Events begin at 19:30 GMT with a 30 minute practice session, followed by 15 minutes qualifying, and then the race. Everyone must be in the lobby before qualifying starts (20:05 GMT). The races themselves will last approximately 40-45 minutes.

    You're free to register for the championship but will be added as a reserve driver. You will need to know which round you will be unable to attend at the time of registration to prevent abuse. Priority will be given to those that commit to the full season. If there are free places when registration closes then you may be able to take part. Note that there are no drop races in this championship, so missing a round also means missing out on the points.
     
  20. Ok cheers for that Ross :)
     
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