Race #7, Germany: Post-Race Checks

[Kris Cobb]

Post-race Checks

Artyom Aslamazyan (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Borja Garcia (3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Daniel Bida (3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Not Submitted
Launch Control R1: Not Used
Launch Control R2: Not Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Official Warning for not using Launch Control. Disqualified for Feature and Sprint Race, no log files.

Daniel Kiss (4.25)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: +30 Second Penalty, Feature Race, Incident #6. Official Warning for Incident #6.

Danny van der Niet(3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Fabrizio Gobbi(3.25)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Giordano Valeriano(3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Jiri Toman(4.50)
Q1: Cut
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Back of Grid for Feature Race Round 8 for Incidents #1 & 2. Official Warning for Cutting, Incident #3. -0.5 Penalty Points for Incident #8.

Jonny Simon(3.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: +60 Second Penalty for cutting, Feature Race, Incident #4. Official Warning for Incident #4. -1.0 Penalty Points for Incident #11. -1.0 Penalty Points for Incident #12.

Marco Conti(0.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Martin Hodas(5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: +30 second Penalty, Sprint Race, Incident #14. Official Warning, Incident #14.

Muhammed Patel(3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: +30 Second Penalty for cutting, Feature Race, Incident #5. Official Warning for Incident #5.

Norbert Leitner(4.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Patrik Holzmann(2.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: "Virtual Rearview In Cockpit":false
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Disqualified for Feature Race for cutting, Incident #7. Official Warning for Incident #7. +60 Second Penalty, Sprint Race, Incident #13. Official Warning for Incident #13. Official Warning for Log File.

Peter Helmbro(4.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Sebastian Dunkel(3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: "Virtual Rearview In Cockpit":false
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Official Warning for Log File.

Thomas Mundy(5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Thomas Satherley(5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

 

[Kris Cobb]

Incidents

Before going straight to the incidents verdicts take into account that there has been some rule changes this year regarding the penalty system and it may seem that penalties are harsher than previous years.

This year with the introduction of the Safety Rating value every driver gets 0.25 SR for aclean race (2 Races per Weekend).
That means that if a driver has a penalty of 1.5 penalty points he will be able to recover those penalty points doing 6 clean races (3 Race Weekends) while the previous years the driver had to do 5 consecutive clean races (5 Weekends) in order to “erase” his penalty points.

Cutting/Extending Track Boundaries:

16.1
The race "track" is considered the main asphalt surface generally bounded by white lines, grass, walls or curbing. Curbs are usually painted in blue/white, green/white or red/white colors. Curbs are considered part of the track. The green, white or grey solid/grasscrete surfaces on the inside of the curbs are NOT to be considered as part of the curbs. It is pretty clear and self explanatory using common sense at most tracks, but if you do have any doubts then don't hesitate to clear it up with questions to the Race Director. The aim of the league is competition on a fair and level playing field. So all aspects of rules and definitions must be respected and obeyed by all drivers so that the competition does remain even to all. On corners where the inner edge is cut across, at least two wheels must remain continually in contact with the defined "track" during their entire passage through the curve. The same basic outline is used to measure running wide. The Race Director may set up exceptions of the above mentioned rules for certain corners which will be announced on the forums.


2.9
A cut lap shouldn't bring an advantage or the same time as an average race lap without a cut. A cut lap will be considered illegal if that lap is faster than 101.5% of the fastest clean lap of the stint the cut happened in. If a cut is made during a pit-in or -outlap, that lap will automatically be considered a cut lap, regardless of the laptime.
If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions
If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty
If driver has more than 20% illegal cut laps - +60 sec race time penalty
If driver has more than 30% illegal cut laps - DQ

For Germany this means:
Race - Laps - 10% - 20% - 30%
1 - 40 - 4 - 8 - 12
2 - 20 - 2 - 4 - 6

Disappointed to see the amount of cuts. Again warnings were handed out IN ADDITION to any penalties.

Incident #1
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman
Lap/Replay Time Q1 Lap 5 / 0:04
Protest Description Jiri Toman cuts T1 in his Qualifying lap.
Verdict: Cut. See Incident #2


Incident #2
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman
Lap/Replay Time Q1 Lap 8 / 0:04
Protest Description Jiri Toman cuts T1 in his Qualifying lap again.
Verdict: Cut. Back of Grid for Next Round.


Incident #3
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman
Lap/Replay Time Race 1 cuts
Protest Description Jiri Toman cut 10%(4) of his laps in Race 1 and should be given a 30 second time penalty
Lap 3 / 0:05 (T1) cut 1.18.921 1.19.790
Lap 13 / 0:05 (T1) cut 1.18.099 1.19.653
Lap 19 / 0:05 (T1) cut 1.18.861 ''
Lap 34 / 0:05 (T1) cut 1.18.366 1.19.266
Verdict: 4 cuts, 10% laps cut, no penalty. Official Warning.


Incident #4
Driver(s) Involved Jonny Simon
Lap/Replay Time Race 1
Protest Description Jonny Simon cuts over 10% of his laps, so he should get a time penalty.
Lap 2 - T1, 0.04 cut 1.19.356 1.19.693 1.20.888
Lap 5 - T1, 0.04 cut 1.20.276
Lap 6 - T15, 1.13 cut 1.19.692
Lap 8 - T15, 1.13 cut 1.19.924
Lap 10 - T15 cut 1.19.907
Lap 15 - T1, 0.04 cut 1.19.183 1.18.911 1.20.095
Lap 16 - T15, 1.13 none
Lap 17 - T15 cut 1.19.764
Lap 24 - T15, 1.13 cut 1.19.797
Lap 33 - T15, 1.13 cut 1.19.541 1.17.890 1.19.058 not faster
Lap 37 - T1, 0.04 cut 1.18.881
Lap 39 - T15 cut 1.18.927
Verdict: 10 cuts, +20% laps cut, +60 second Penalty. Official Warning.


Incident #5
Driver(s) Involved Muhammed Patel
Lap/Replay Time Race 1
Protest Description Driver cutting/extending.
L10 - T1 cut 1.19.532 1.18.982 1.20.167
L14 - T15 cut 1.18.316 1.18.148 1.19.320
L15 - T1 cut 1.19.055
L16 - T1 cut 1.18.558
L33 - T15 cut 1.18.015 1.17.308 1.18.468
L37 - T15 cut 1.17.697
Verdict: 6 cuts, +10% laps cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.


Incident #6
Driver(s) Involved Daniel Kiss
Lap/Replay Time Race 1
Protest Description Driver cutting/extending.
L12 - T15 cut outlap
L33 - T1 cut 1.18.048 1.17.712 1.18.878
L34 - T1 cut 1.17.860
L35 - T1 cut 1.18.276
L36 - 36 cut 1.18.442
Verdict: 5 cuts, +10% laps cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.


Incident #7
Driver(s) Involved Patrik Holzmann
Lap/Replay Time Race 1
Protest Description Driver cuts/extending.
L2 - T1 cut 1.18.687 1.18.687 1.19.867
L5 - T1 cut 1.19.162
L5 - T11 n/a already cut on same lap
L6 - T1 cut 1.19.213
L8 - T1 cut 1.19.664
L8 - T10 n/a already cut on same lap
L12 - T1 cut inlap
L14 - T1 cut 1.18.132 1.18.132 1.19.304
L15 - T1 cut ~1.19
L16 - T1 cut ~1.19
L17 - T15 cut 1.18.878
L18 - T1 cut 1.18.592
L18 - T15 n/a already cut on same lap
L18 - T16 n/a already cut on same lap
L22 - T1 cut 1.18.950
L24 - T15 cut 1.18.951
L27 - T15 cut 1.20.199 no
L29 - T4 cut outlap
L30 - T1 cut 1.18.234 1.17.274 1.18.433
Verdict: 14 cuts, +30% cut, Disqualified from Feature Race. Official Warning.


Incident #8
Driver(s) Involved Daniel Kiss, Jiri Toman
Lap/Replay Time Race 2, Lap 4 0:26
Protest Description Jiri Toman dives from way too far at the hairpin and then makes contact with Daniel Kiss who sustains suspension damage from the contact.
Verdict: Toman dives into the hairpin. Kiss and Toman are not beside each other when Kiss starts to turn-in, thus it is Kiss' corner. -0.5 Penalty Points for Toman.


Incident #9
Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodas, Daniel Kiss
Lap/Replay Time Race 2 - Lap 6 - T12 (Sachs) - 1:02
Protest Description Martin was wide in T11 which allowed Kiss to attack him. Kiss closed the door despite Martin still being next to him, which caused damage on Martins suspension (turning to the left on straights).
Verdict: Martin and Kiss are beside each other at turn-in point. Kiss must leave room. On exit, Martin pushes Kiss wide even though he had room on the inside. Racing Incident. No further action.


Incident #10
Driver(s) Involved Peter Helmbro, Leitner, Holzmann
Lap/Replay Time R2 L17 T4
Protest Description Holzmann comes up to pass me. I cover on the inside and I brake too late. Steer right to not hit Leitner. I get a penalty of 3 x 10 seconds stop and go.
Verdict:


Incident #11
Driver(s) Involved Muhammed Patel, Jonny Simon
Lap/Replay Time R2 / L18 0:29
Protest Description Patel overtakes Simon, but crosses too close to Simon's front wing on his braking zone being the responsible of the incident with lost of time for both drivers.
Verdict: Patel makes no sudden or unreasonable movement to block Simon. Simon causes the incident and causes Patel move offtrack. -1.0 Penalty Points for Simon.


Incident #12
Driver(s) Involved Muhammed Patel, Jonny Simon
Lap/Replay Time R2 / L20 / 1:11
Protest Description Once again, Patel is overtaking Simon but without respect to Simon's path.
Verdict: Patel leaves plenty of room and also uses a generous amount of curb himself to avoid contact. Simon causes the incident and Patel loses a position. -1.0 Penalty Points for Simon.


Incident #13
Driver(s) Involved Patrik Holzmann
Lap/Replay Time Race 2
Protest Description Driver cutting/extending.
L3 - T10 cut 1.19.320 1.17.987 1.19.157 n
L7 - T1 cut ~1.18
L11 - T15 cut 1.18.476 1.17.833 1.19.000
L12 - T1 cut 1.17.768
L13 - T1 cut 1.17.508
L13 - T11 n/a already cut on same lap
L14 - T11 cut 1.18.061
L14 - T15 n/a already cut on same lap
L18 - T15 cut 1.18.453
Verdict: 6 cuts, 30% cut laps, +60 Second Penalty. Official Warning.


Incident #14
Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodas
Lap/Replay Time Race 2 Lap 11 - T12, 1.00 Lap 18 - T12, 1.00 Lap 19 - T16, 1.13
Protest Description In Race 2, Martin Hodas cut over 10% of his laps, as follows:
L11 - T12, 1.00 cut 1.19.481 1.18.590 1.19.769
L18 - T12, 1.00 cut 1.19.187
L19 - T15, 1.13 cut 1.19.211
Verdict: 3 cuts, +10% cut laps, +30 Second Penalty. Official Warning.

 

[Martin Hodás]

Im at work atm, so I have no time to check it closer... but:

"If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions"

So wtf it is with Jiri´s first +30 sec? he has exactly 10% of cuts

 

[danielino]

Godek received +30 seconds penalty for 3 cuts in Silverstone (31 laps race) and you didn't have a problem with that.

 

[Martin Hodás]

Really? loool

 

[Georg Winter]

The only thing that is killing FSR is, that guys like you post things like this public and not in private...

 

[Georg Winter]

Than get the drivers together in private and do a protest at Mr. President. But dont blame anybody here.

 

[Ho3n3r]

During a long history of fsr time penalties for cutting have been given to drivers who exceeded the cut limit. So over 10% and so on. 10% is the limit and it is shocking how fsr administration is unable to sort out this american race director. The lack of communication and cooperation on the highest organizational levels is killing fsr. Applying factual rules such as cutting correctly should be easy and if it cannot be handled then time for a new director to step in.

The problem is, nobody else wanted the job. I think Kris is doing a great job keeping things in order as well. And I'm sure there are things that he does well that you would struggle with yourself, which you don't notice at all from the outside, and take for granted. Do you want the job yourself? Sounds like you'll do a magnificent job.

If the rules are misinterpreted, it can be sorted out. As Patronic says, matters such as these can be sorted out in private. Mudslinging in public won't get you anywhere.

It always looks much easier from the outside.

 

[Martin Hodás]

If the rules are misinterpreted, it can be sorted out. As Patronic says, matters such as these can be sorted out in private. Mudslinging in public won't get you anywhere.

It can be sorted out. We wanted it after Cobb´s mistake in GB race checks, but he rejected all our effort. And we were trying to solve it also in prive, with both Kris and JES. And result? Needless to continue...

#OndrejForDirector

 

[Dian Kostadinov]

The rules must be followed on 100%, so I aggree with PM guys in this case and these penalties must be edited.

 

[Jonny Simon]

Hahahaha! Just spent 20 mins scanning through the replays of some of the drivers not protested for cutting and they cut more than those of us protested! Damm man is it too late?

Won't mention any people or who's, but if anything I find this a compliment because it seems those protested and attacked are some of the elite drivers in ACE. So a nice and big ****ing thank you for considering me part of that group

 

[Jiří Toman]

I gave up last time because one could say it was a different interpretation of the rules. But enough is enough. I'm tired of this. Is it that hard to read rules properly? I mean, after that Silverstone's screw-up, I would make damn sure to make it right this time. But no. If you can't make one post race checks without any mistakes or misunderstandings, you should really retire from this position or rather FSR administration should find someone more competent.

 

[Morgan Morand]

Jiri, i think there are some rules which permit different interpretations, some are too vague, i think the main problem is there

 

[Martin Hodás]

Jiri, i think there are some rules which permit different interpretations, some are too vague, i think the main problem is there

I agree, but not in this case. Or do you think rule "up to - or more than" is vague?
If person cant judge correctly such a simply defined rule, how he can correctly judge rules, which actualy needs different interpretations?

 

[Jiří Toman]

Jiri, i think there are some rules which permit different interpretations, some are too vague, i think the main problem is there

If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no action

I seriously doubt this rule has anything to do with different interpretations. You cut 4 times, that is exactly 10% in this situation which is logically up to 10%. It's as simple as that.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Don't cut once then. If you want to be safe, that is.

 

[Ivar Kalamees]

Furthermore, the 2nd point of the rule states: "2) If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty ".
Jiri did not have "more than 10%", so I don't think there can be any different interpretations here.

 

[Jiří Toman]

Don't cut once then. If you want to be safe, that is.

Yea, I guess that is the best thing to do when someone is simply unable to do his job.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Yea, I guess that is the best thing to do when someone is simply unable to do his job.

Why do you have to cut up to 4 times though? I'm one of the amateurs in pro and I did not even cut once.

I do agree that the rules were applied incorrectly in this instance, but my point is, there is no need to place yourself in this predicament,

Use it, don't use it.

 

[Patrik Holzmann]

Yea, I guess that is the best thing to do when someone is simply unable to do his job.

You actually deserve more than 30 sec penatly for your bad behaviour.