Race #07, Turkey: Post-Race Discussion

[Rasmus Tali]

Q: Was pretty good as I was driving with race orientated setup.

R: I was realy comfortable at the start and my chance of winning or atleast fighting for the win til the end.
After lights went green I was being cautious not to get any damage wich would ruin my race. While taking inside line exiting final corner to avoid greco and huis if they were to make a mistake, Greco ran into Huis a bit and half supun in front of me, I didnt know what was the damage but I braked into t1 a bit earlier and more inside the track to be ready if my car has some suspension problems. Unfortunatley contact with Greco took off my front wing and car just understeered deep into t1, I then tried to avoid gravel trap but I touched it with 2 of my wheels and it sent me towoards the track with no control over the car, I did everything I could but the car ended up in ideal line where Euler hit me and after that some red car also.

I realy dont know what to say, a realy big chunk of possible points went away again because of some realy misfortunate happenings, I am sorry for those who suffered in t1 because of me but hand on my hear there was nothing I could have done to avoid it after I touched the gravel.

See you in Canada.

 

[Lee Morris]

i looked back rasmus at the accident and there is no way you could have done anything about it.. this is where i think penaltys need to be careful.. and racing incidents need to be implemented correctly. you didnt do it on purpose.. plus the outer track regions are so often poor and unrealistic that you have no idea what it will do to the car.. look at niza later on in race stuck on an invisible kerb lol..

like in monaco you were the car that actualy hit me and took me off.. but it was not your fault... so i didnt protest same thing needs to be adressed here i think...

 

[Rasmus Tali]

Thanks Lee.
In my opinion also some of the run offs are bit cheeky in FSR and rF in general, sandtraps like in t1, t8 and few other corners only make it more dangerous, I also understand that FSR wants as realistic tracks as possible but in real life these kind of gravel traps are made for a safety precaution but they work against us in simracing (not always ofcourse). Obviously not all run offs are like that but it would be nice to look into it a bit more if FSR track developers have any spare time.
In general tracks have been solid this year so I dont want to criticise anyone, but I would not like to be in this kind of situation again where I am spinning on run off or someone spinns on track after going too deep if it could be avoided.

 

[Dennis Hirrle]

If I remember correctly, we haven't changed any sandtraps or runoffs this year, except for Malaysia when we made the gravel less slow.
I think in the heat of the moment, everyone wants to rejoin the track as fast as possible and sometimes potentially forgets about the slippery runoffs (and makes the broadcast look very bad as a consequence! ). I think runoffs are very slippery indeed in real life, if you take the Monaco tunnel as a reference, be 1 meter off the racing line and you're in the wall immediately. There's just a big difference between an insanely grippy racing line and an off-line which is never used. Maybe you've been to a F1 race...if you walk over the track after the race, your shoes actually stick to the tarmac.

Obviously I agree there's some stupid stuff like the curb Niza was stuck on. We just rely on those track builders 99% of the time. We can find and change some things but not everything. Instantly after the WC race is over people ask us when the next track is out...there's not that much time available. And since we have to place roughly 100000 anticuts for Canada, there won't be much time left for the other stuff.

 

[Rasmus Tali]

I agree, and I know FSR has not made these gravel traps after runoff areas but FSR can remove them if its needed. As for canada I think this will not be the problem so have fun with placing anticuts, just dont get too overwhelmed placing them.

About that Monaco tunnel, I think you referred to Hulkenberg crash. If so then he crahed because of front wing failure.

 

[David Dominguez]

Or Alonso in 2004, following Ralf Schumacher.

 

[Dennis Hirrle]

Example 1:

Example 2:

Example 3:

Enough?

 

[Lee Morris]

when i put poor and unrealistic that was aimed at r factor in general not FSR.. the fsr tracks are superb !

 

[Jacques Bonet]

Hello everybody,


I'm Jacques Bonet, Team Owner of SRZ team.

I just check the penality points for Istanbul race and I don't understand penality points received by David (end of first lap).

When I read "Right of Way in Bends" paragraph in the Penalty Guidelines Supplement

7.1 The car on the inside line has right of way in a bend as long as they are under control, all situations
will be judged on their own merits. When going two-wide through a bend, both drivers must give the
other driver room for (a) their car (b) warping (connection lag) and (c) margin of error. In reality, this
means that each driver must give the other driver a fair and sporting amount of space. So squeezing
the other driver wide is not allowed. ...

Also on the same document, it is say :

If a driver is given a penalty for an incident in a race which he did not finish, that penalty will
instead be converted in to twice the amount of Penalty Points the driver would have gotten from
the incident if he had finished normally. For example: If a driver was involved in a race incident for
which he was given a penalty, but did not finish that race, then he would be given 2 Penalty Points
instead of 1.

This confort me in not understanding why David take only a warning for this incident.

I would like if possible understand how have been judged this incident.

I put my request here, because I think I'm not alone to not understand the sanction, and it will be interesting for us to share your opinion.


Thks.



Jacques

 

[Mikko Puumalainen]

Hello everybody,


I'm Jacques Bonet, Team Owner of SRZ team.

I just check the penality points for Istanbul race and I don't understand penality points received by David (end of first lap).

When I read "Right of Way in Bends" paragraph in the Penalty Guidelines Supplement

7.1 The car on the inside line has right of way in a bend as long as they are under control, all situations
will be judged on their own merits. When going two-wide through a bend, both drivers must give the
other driver room for (a) their car (b) warping (connection lag) and (c) margin of error. In reality, this
means that each driver must give the other driver a fair and sporting amount of space. So squeezing
the other driver wide is not allowed. ...

Also on the same document, it is say :

If a driver is given a penalty for an incident in a race which he did not finish, that penalty will
instead be converted in to twice the amount of Penalty Points the driver would have gotten from
the incident if he had finished normally. For example: If a driver was involved in a race incident for
which he was given a penalty, but did not finish that race, then he would be given 2 Penalty Points
instead of 1.

This confort me in not understanding why David take only a warning for this incident.

I would like if possible understand how have been judged this incident.

I put my request here, because I think I'm not alone to not understand the sanction, and it will be interesting for us to share your opinion.


Thks.



Jacques

Hi Jacques.

first of all I'd like to say thanks for reading the rules document, I only wish more people would do the same .

Regarding the Greco - Huis - Tali - Hähnel incident, the part that I penalized was what you quoted, the Right of Way. If Huis had been disadvantaged by the contact with Greco then for sure Greco would've gotten a bigger penalty.

Since Greco was the one who lost out in the incident between himself and Huis, he only got a warning for it (knowing that he had previous warnings and that it would be converted in to 0.5 penalty points). What happened immediately afterwards (with Tali & Hähnel) was not worth of a penalty in my view because it was just a very unfortunate accident.

If you have further things you wish to discuss, I'll be happy to do so.

 

[Jacques Bonet]

Thks for your reply Mikko.


Your argument is totally valuable.

I remember of a championship I administer some years ago where we apply exactly the same logic : A driver to be sanctionned, must have is car going to another car. If a driver spin, loss control of is vehicule, and another car crash on it, he will not be sanctionned. That's what happened to David.

Now, we have differents rules in our champs, because we consider lossing control is a fault, but its not FSR rule, and as I say before is valuable too. May be some precisions about this point in the FSR regulation document could be interesting.


Jacques

 

[Mikko Puumalainen]

May be some precisions about this point in the FSR regulation document could be interesting.

We tried to include every penalty situation in to the rules last year, and it was a bad idea. It rarely worked in a fair way.

It's best to allow the Race Directors to review the incidents on their own.

 

[Blair Disley]

6 wings gone, 2 dnf's, surprised no red flag.

Hey. Last season we had a ridiculous amount of red flags, and it was not fair. That's why we have pit lane starts this year, instead of back of grid starts, to act as more of a deterrent to causing crashes, as last year a back of grid penalty was not enough. This year, the safety car might come out, otherwise the race is to generally run as is, and people will get penalty points.