Race #02, Malaysia: Post-Race Checks

[Giuseppe Marconi]

indeed contact is not racing but "dives" etc.

this is racing for me to the limit but giving hamilton a penalty for this move would be insane

Yes m8 i'm agree the beauty of races are also insane overtakes like this. But in this situation the overtake is already completed when Hamilton turns in the corner or at least is quite forward Kimi. If they were side by side at entry of the corner or Kimi have to decide to go straight cutting the corner or the collision is impossible to avoid. But this situation when 2 drivers are side by side for me are only race incidents no penalty to apply. Different is when a driver during an overtake move dies into other driver such as carambola....i saw a lot of drivers doing so in the recent past.

 

[Chris de Jong]

Braking so late that it's up to the other driver to notice you in order to avoid a crash can't be considered racing. Here is an example of what happens if the driver in front is not so kind to give you the position:

And Patrick (and Jim in the other incident) was much behind than in this example.

in that example the red car opens the door coming on to the corner, i dive into that gap without desperation in my action, the red car ignores me and steers in and makes contact and then it is my fault? seriously you should do some competitive karting for real racing experience

 

[Paul Brennan]

Surely if the dive bomber makes the apex in control, ( no locking up or overspeed that ends in a t-bone collision) and both drivers make it safely through despite one yeilding, then isnt that just better race craft having caught the driver ahead sleeping?

 

[Christof Schgör]

in that example the red car opens the door coming on to the corner, i dive into that gap without desperation in my action, the red car ignores me and steers in and makes contact and then it is my fault? seriously you should do some competitive karting for real racing experience

You have to take in account that the front Person already braked exactly for the Apex and than you just ignore that and brake like 2-3 Meters later. Who would let you space there? It's like that: Oh you braked for the exact ideal linie? Well Too BAD now i'm here, and the Front person avoids you like Alonso Or Button on Monaco against Perez, Or! closes the Door Like Kimi. And in My opinion Diving into each other like a bunch of babarians are AssMoves. If you can't get on the Same lenght than the Frontcar (before) the turning point the Front Car can decide if he crashs you and take fully blame on your move, or if he Avoids you and give yourself such a advantage that he might got overtaken from a Guy which was 2 Car Lenghts behind. That's by the way why Michael Schumacher crashed into Villeneuve. Sadly he got A Penalty for that. Instead of giving Villeneuve the Penalty for the most stupist divebomb Move i've ever seen in my Life O: .

 

[Christian Smirnoff]

Quick question. How is a driver who stalls at the start and causes multiple collisions as a result, awarded SR points? Not even a warning? Other drivers got a warning for contact which didn't have a major impact, if any impact at all, on peoples races. Yet they were docked SR points? How is a race in which a driver stalls and causes multiple collisions seen as a clean race? He didn't even move 5 feet...

Xavier, we agree that the rules shouldn't have allowed Marcel to get an extra 0.5 SR, but he definitely did not test for 2 weeks just to stall on the grid on purpose... asking for him to be penalised seems really unnecessary.

It would be as illogical as if drivers would be penalised for making a mistake and accidentally losing control in front of others. Oh, wait.

I find it ironic that 2 weeks ago, we were wrongly accused of being sister teams with NetRex, now we are used as an example of collisions.

I won't even waste time joining the overtaking discussions here as I'm then blamed for lobbying or whatever. I will try to learn a bit from the driving lessons posted here. Someone also recommended me to watch the start of the Ace feature race to learn about best driving practices, so I will probably do that!

 

[Victor Ivanov]

You gave one warning and one 0.5 to De Wit for two clean overtakes? Are you actually serious?

 

[David Dominguez]

Surely if the dive bomber makes the apex in control, ( no locking up or overspeed that ends in a t-bone collision) and both drivers make it safely through despite one yeilding, then isnt that just better race craft having caught the driver ahead sleeping?

No, because the only reason both drivers made it safely is because the driver in front had to gave up his position despite being clearly in front before the turn in phase, which means he had the position well covered and the car from the back didn't have the right to make an overtake attempt.

As it seems no one wants to check the rulebook, this is what they say:

When overtaking a competitor, the attacking party should only attempt to overtake in a corner if at least the front of his car is alongside the defending party when they arrive at the turn-in point of the corner.

The only driver who has atleast the front alongside the other car arriving to the turn-in point is .... Hamilton.

And as I already predict that someone will say that FSR rules sucks: those rules were voted by WC teams. No one complained about this overtaking definition in the last 5 years.

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

I think Sepang track is like 4 times wider than Monza hence turn in point is much far away from the apex. It has been made that wide exactly to stimulate overtakings. Just my 5 cents.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

That's what a wise man said years ago:

 

[Chris de Jong]

people blaming villenueve now for what happened in jerez 97 i mean...
We are all obviously very excited about rf2 and the beginning of fsr and we all want to show what we are worth.
To downgrade the massive carnage at the start of the ace race 1 driver tapped another in t2 and mayhem was upon us.
But it is rather unlucky that it happened and i think the ace drivers have the quality for good starts and lets see until the next race what happens there.
About the overtaking i think its fair to say that in any overtaking situation : if you want to overtake someone then you will always compromise that someone his racing line since you want to pass him. Using your head during an overtaking manouvre can be crucial as de Wit showed when Jim dived him into turn 1 which i thought was a decent attempt for Jim and i'm amazed it got into the incidents as well. We have to understand we are racing eachother and until the limit is reached on track limits and you leave the other enough space to make the corner there is no need for friendly behaviour on track then. If someone is on the inside, cut back underneath him, try to get a better exit next corner but dont just steer into people and ignoring they are on the inside of you. if someone is within a 1.000 / 0.500 behind you then you'd be wise to chose defensive lines on parts on the circuit where overtaking is a possibility and since no racing driver in front will ever go off the racing line and say here you have this position you always have to fight your way trough it and if we give eachother just that tiny bit of space that is enough then we will all have allot more fun on track!

 

[Kris Cobb]

When overtaking a competitor, the attacking party should only attempt to overtake in a corner if at least the front of his car is alongside the defending party when they arrive at the turn-in point of the corner.

SHOULD to me, implies a guideline.

The full rule:

When overtaking a competitor, the attacking party should only
attempt to overtake in a corner if at least the front of his car is alongside the defending party when
they arrive at the turn-in point of the corner. If the attacking party tries to make a move from further
back and makes contact with the defending party, the attacker will be held accountable. Conversely,
if the defending party does not give enough room for the attacking party when they arrive at the apex
of a corner side-by-side, ending in contact, the defending party will be held accountable.

To me, the rule means you should not attempt an overtake, it does not say MUST NOT. Rules above this one say must not. I see a difference in SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT.

What you are trying to say is as long as the defender makes it to the turn in point he does not have to defend at all, which makes no sense. IMO if Parisis had a defensive line through the corner (which he did not) it would have been a lot more difficult for De Wit to pass, and he would have had to on the outside.

To me the rule should only be used
1) as a guideline, because most people probably wouldn't have been able to pull this off and most defenders wouldn't have left so much room.
2) Only be taken into account if there is contact, hence the expanded rule I posted. In the instance of contact, De Wit surely without a doubt be penalized.

The rule says nothing about no contact and trying the move from so far back.

The rules, from what I can find, say nothing about forcing another driver to take another line without contact. If there was such a rule, aggressive driving that has a purpose of forcing another driver into a mistake would be deemed illegal as well. All this is part of racing.

 

[David Dominguez]

What you are trying to say is as long as the defender makes it to the turn in point he does not have to defend at all, which makes no sense. IMO if Parisis had a defensive line through the corner (which he did not) it would have been a lot more difficult for De Wit to pass, and he would have had to on the outside.

2) Only be taken into account if there is contact, hence the expanded rule I posted. In the instance of contact, De Wit surely without a doubt be penalized.

What doesn't make any sense is the following, and it's what are you suggesting:

1-If the attacking driver, who doesn't have the front of the car alongside the other car, dives and the defender car doesnt turn to avoid the crash, no penalty applies, despite losing a position and therefore losing time.

2-If that same thing happens, but the car in front turns in, they both crash and the attacking driver gets a penalty (confirmed by yourself).

So basically you are saying that the penalty for the attacking driver depends solely if the driver in front turns in or not, despite having all the right to do it, because he is clearly ahead in the turn in phase. If he turns, they crash and he loses time. If he doesn't, he loses the position and time and the attacking driver goes away without any penalty. A nice way to promote fair racing

 

[Kris Cobb]

My point is he did nothing to defend the corner. He left a gap and De Wit went for it. It was clean with no contact, and he was able to maintain control over the car.

The rule states if De Wit had made contact from attacking so far back he would have the penalty.

 

[David Dominguez]

He did nothing to defend the corner because he was way ahead before the turn in phase. He had the position, and he didnt't have to expect a divebomb there because the car behind was clearly far, and was never alongisde at the turn in phase.

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

I think in racing very little goes as expected, in the end that is what racing is and what makes it fun to watch. If every of 26 cars finish the race in the order they start as expected in all races of the season as expected, viewers auditory will drop dramatically as people will lose interest quickly. Think about it.

 

[Kris Cobb]

He did nothing to defend the corner because he was way ahead before the turn in phase. He had the position, and he didnt't have to expect a divebomb there because the car behind was clearly far, and was never alongisde at the turn in phase.

No he thought he had the corner and he knew full well who was following him.

Was it a risky move, absolutely. But it was clean and that is the rule.

There is nothing in the rules against forcing someone to take a different line. A lot of racing is pressuring the car ahead to make a mistake thus forcing a different line.


Most of us would not have tried that move and most of us wouldn't have been able to maintain the car control De Wit was able to hold.

 

[Bono Huis]

Fact is Jim Parisis got outbraked from 4 car lengths behind, despite being on a much higher downforce setup. De Wit caught him sleeping, it was a risky move but he made the apex without any issues. It was a fantastic and fair overtake by Patrick and anyone who thinks otherwise is either out of his mind or doesn't know anything about racing.

 

[Rando Tamm]

Well, Jim Parisis is in Twister Racing team and Eduard is/was too...

 

[Kris Cobb]

Now I think that is a bit unfair. As Directors it is our job to remain neutral to whatever team we belong to or have ties with.

I have no assumptions about Eduard, I just think he read the rules differently. The rule is, at best, a bit vague and some interpretation can be made.

 

[David Dominguez]

Well, Jim Parisis is in Twister Racing team and Eduard is/was too...

Come on, finish the sentence