Question for GTL Drivers about RD Ranking points

[Stuart Thomson]

Would you care if GT Legends events were excluded from the RD Ranking Points scoring?

I'm a little concerned about some of the driving standards, and the attitude shown by some people on occasion.

I suspect that, if people knew that the GTL Club & League races did not contribute to the rankings, they'd be more inclined to treat GTL races in the way they are meant to - first and foremost as Fun.

Leave your feedback please.

 

[Ross McGregor]

I haven't seen a drop in standards in the GTL club recently, but i've only taken part in a handful of events. (others can give a better insight into this)
I'm not fussed about GTL being included in the rankings, i just enjoy driving the cars and having good racing.
I do like the idea of recording race results/lap times though.

 

[Warren Dawes]

There seems to be a lot of focus for this topic based on driving standards and incidents from aggressive driving. I'd like to add a slightly different perspective, which I believe Stuart had alluded to in his first post.

In the GTL Club events, I have seen / experienced many positive things:

1. Drivers being prepared to choose slower cars in mixed field races (we all know that the cars within each class can vary hugely). We have had people choosing to drive Mk2 Jaaaaaag's against Alfas and Cortinas, just for the fun of it. This way, faster drivers got to mix closely with slower drivers, adding to the fun for the slower drivers.

2. Drivers actually slowing and waiting for slower drivers to catch up, just so that the slower drivers had someone to race closely with, rather than the slower drivers having lonely races at the back.

3. Members having on-going friendly chatting over Teamspeak during races, encouraging each other, helping each other, even giving friendly cheek.

4. Members freely exchanging set ups during practice.

5. Nobody complains when a Restart is needed to help someone who had technical issues, even though they may be highly disadvantaged with the new random grid.

6. Very little aggro and abuse in after-race chatting.

These are examples of what the GTL Racing Club is all about. This defines the "spirit" of the GTL Club.
In fact, I'll go further, this is exactly what the Racedepartment Racing Club was founded on, many years ago. Some may recall that the RC was grown out of the Friendly Development Series. I still have fond memories of Bram and others dropping back and buzzing around me, to help me learn some racecraft, when I was new to Simracing.

My observations recently is that this spirit is still very strong among the GTL Club, but it has diminished within the Race On / GTRE Club.
I also see Racing Staff working very hard to plan events where the cars are very closely matched, to minimise the tendency for the masses to choose the "fastest" car. Fair enough, but I sometimes miss the the sight of seeing a Mini battling Falcons, or Jaaaaaags fighting to match a Mustang, it's all great fun when the spirit is right.

The RD Stats Points system adds some really good benefits (previously mentioned) but it can also lead to a loss of the "Club" spirit due to increased competitiveness. With this can come more aggressive driving, and maybe more incidents, it's inevitable, but usually that only applies to a minority. The biggest worry is that it can become infectious if not nipped in the bud. I've seen it elsewhere.

For those who race purely for the competitive side, we have many Leagues for that. The Racing Club was designed to provide something different.

I don't know the answer, and I'm not pushing my own agenda, but I wanted to add a broader perspective than simply seeing this issue as a driving standards problem.

 

[Carlos Diaz]

Beautiful post Warren :thumb:

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Good stuff Warren, and yeah, as I mentioned in post #3, that vehicle disparity is another one of the reasons why I have been pondering this.

So far I read several positive reactions to the removal of points, several don't cares, one occasional checker (Eck), and only one "we should keep them", but that is from Amir who said he himself doesn't care about points.

I'll speak to the database boys a bit further to explore the possibilities.

 

[Eck Simpson]

3. Members having on-going friendly chatting over Teamspeak during races, encouraging each other, helping each other, even giving friendly cheek.

I was a latecomer, to TS, circumstances stopped me using it soon after. (please return to TS2, it works no problem for me... lol) I miss it greatly, just for the banter. Where else can you get, an instant friendly, ribbing for being an ass. I myself, need that ribbing, from time to time. No really, I can be an ass... lol.

 

[Carlos Diaz]

You mean you guys chat in TS during the race? lol
I never knew this because the few times I have used it I turn it off right before the race thinking that no one was gonna say anything while racing anyway.
Even though it's probably better that I turn it off for racing since I'm too easily distracted, hehe.

 

[Hans Sneep]

Well wat can I say after a great post from Warren,complete agree with that !

The only sing I don't like on the ranking system is a DNF ,it can be that you run your car in to the fence an that is your own fault,but it can also be a lost connection, an that is Not your own fault but it is threaded the same way on your ranking an that is annoying !

Before this ranking system we had something else, you could see standings from several games GTL- rFactor-GTR an more, so you could compare with in the game you race,10 fasted times on several tracks with several cars or the most km you have made an lots more.

The guys who race all the events where high on the list,an that gives a good impression how you are doing.

About the question , I don t race for the ranking but because it is there you are looking at it,an if you had 3 DNF on a row because of a freezing game or a lost connection or wat ever reason ,beside a car crash, it is again Annoying !

 

[Stuart Thomson]

I should stress that the lack of points will NOT affect the results feed. We will still get the results in the rankings section as normal.

 

[Ondrej Kapal]

I dont care about ranking system at all, just when I got dissapointed by game bug which ends with DNF, and I think it is nice to have some place in there... if there would be for example just score table, to see who is where without points, then go ahead, remove ranking points from GTL or lets keep it, I dont mind because I will be driving the same

 

[Bob Hutchins]

Having read all the posts so far & had many chats on TS with most of you, these are my thoughts.

I don't & have never liked the rankings system. I don't think they reflect what kind of driver you are & to be honest I feel the higher you are then probabley the more agressive a driver you are. I like some here don't drive Race series anymore apart from the odd event, normally enduro's, as the driving standards & the over agressiveness is not something I enjoy. This led me to look elsewhere & after reading the posts for GTL & the love of old cars brought me to this series. Since joining I have had the most fun and enjoyed the experience and still love the game to bits but without the great drivers this wouldn't be the case. I have learned so much driving this sim & gained a lot more knowledge from the other drivers it would be a shame if it got messed up by a few glory hunters. I hope this never happens as I feel this is the best racing club at RD so as most regular club drivers have voiced that they don't care for the points only the results then removing the points system from club events can only make sure we maintain the great driving we all get from the club events.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

Just to clear a few things, although tbh I think that Stu has covered it all.

• All results will still be logged and available in your driving history.
• Old results still count for points, any points you collected from GTL events to this point will still remain.

The DNF system is a necessary evil in events that score points as a deterrent as much as anything. Its a finely balanced thing a took a few attempts to get it balanced to where it is now. I think the current level is pretty much as fair as it will ever be. Unfortunately the games do not provide detailed info about collisions, at least not across the board in a compatible way so untill that time comes it will probably need to stay as is.

Anyway is kind of irrelevant here. DNFs will not carry a minus score in GTL events while the none scoring of events is in place.

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Thanks for managing this, Dave :good:

 

[Stuart Thomson]

You mean you guys chat in TS during the race? lol
I never knew this because the few times I have used it I turn it off right before the race thinking that no one was gonna say anything while racing anyway.

Yeah - I mean, it's not as garrulous as it is in Practice, but often, you'll get a "Well held", "Hold your line, I'm going wide", or "Sorry Bob/Warren/Stu/whoever"

Quite a few times, a few of us have been cracking up laughing about an incident or a near miss too

The most memorable one recently was at Bridgehampton where you lost it going into the lightbulb, went over the top of the hill, back onto the track where you wiped me out.

Thing was, once you went over that hill, there was a bit of a bug with the track, so your car was partially submerged below the surface, dipping down on one corner, and it looked like Jaws was after me & Bob. Bob was laughing so hard I though he was going to do himself a mischief :good:

 

[Steven Palmer]

Pretty much agree with all that's been said here....been a regular in the GTL club for a while but lately have had some evenings when I think to myself "why bother"...this has led me to participate less over the last few weeks as the dynamic of the GTL has changed ever so slightly and in retrospect I think it has been since the ranking system was introduced.

It seemed to me that it was getting more about gainning or maintaining a place at any cost, than having fun........I definitely wasn't enjoying the driving experience and that was making me irratable, and to the sufferance of the guys on TS, making me a right miserable sod, probably making it less enjoyable for them too, for which I apologize.

I guess the upsurge in new GTL club members also reflects the fact that others are looking for a better racing enviroment in which to race too, and GTL has for me always had a high level of camaraderie amongst us.

I appeciate all the time and effort put into the ranking system.....but I'm happy that the GTL staff are being proactive in keeping GTL club about FUN first

 

[Carlos Diaz]

Another good aspect of not having the races ranked is that we can have more creativity with the events. Right now I feel kind of bad setting up an event where one car is a bit much slower or much harder to drive than the other. I try to keep the playing field leveled as much as I can because I don't want someone's rank to be affected by the car choices in my events.

But now that we aren't being ranked I can do crazy stuff like putting the Abarth TCR against one of the Vettes in a tight/twisty track! lol

 

[Tom Wilson]

I reckon the Mini Vs the Porsche 935 would be a hoot around Monaco. The Mini would be miles faster!

 

[Eck Simpson]

I had an amazing race with a Mini at '67 Bathurst, I harassed a great many of the big mules round there. Mind you, it was more luck than good judgement. I'd normally have great difficulty, getting the Mini round anywhere, near anyone elses pace.

 

[Kris Leeten]

Well they didn't have to take down the entire ranking system

Anyone an idea on the re-activation?

 

[Roman Kruszewski]

I don't like ranking system, because they actually don't show drivers level.

Once I was active on portal with rankings system, where we had a real Kamikaze. This guy was quick as a lightning, but he drove so aggressive that 90% of his overtaking manoeuvres ended with crash, but when he started 1st he usually ended 1st gaining lots of ranking points.

I'm not very active last times in the Club due to work, but I really do miss it.

I totally agree with Warren and his point of view, and I really don't need ranking points to know how are my rivals driving!

 

[Kris Leeten]

With the re-activation I meant the entire system and not the points for GTL. I like to keep track of my results & laptimes once in a while, nothing to do with points etc.
I've noticed Dave's post so that answered my question. (In the Ranking thread somewhere)