PC1 Project Cars Gameplay comparable to Assetto Corsa?

[Youssef Karam]

To those who have tried Project CARS, are the physics similar, better or worse than Assetto Corsa's? Because I saw some in-game videos for Project CARS, the physics don't seem as real as in the trailer. Thanks!

 

[Andy_J]

We will have to agree to disagree. The trouble with Pcars at the moment is that you get crowds and cheering even when you are testing a car at 04:00 hrs on a chilly January morning. I don't like that. In fact I don't want to hear any crowd cheering when I am in the car. Just the engine sound and the tyre sounds thanks. As for the crowd moving etc, not really bothered. A few waving flags like in the F1 series is good enough for me. For many years I raced in a league in Nascar Racing 2003, and they have solid 1d crowds filling the stands and not for one minute have I ever felt that it spoiled the racing.

But if the devs can develop moving, breathing crowds that is not going to slow down the frame count and hog the CPU, I'm all for it. It's just not that important to me.

 

[RaceNut]

I would disagree on this. 3D crowds are of course not that important, as proper handling and physics, but its not that they are not important at all. Fortunately there is one sim game that has animated 3d crowd (Race Room Racing Experience) and I have to say that I love it and it keeps me visually immersed far more, then Assetto Corsa, in which I'm getting impression that I'm racing on a track that has been frozen in time somehow. there's absolutely no movement around the track and it makes the game feel very unnatural at low speed. On the other hand in R3E when I'm passing tribune with 3D people waving flags (actually flags waves themselves somehow , taking pictures (no matter if they use flashes in their cameras in daylight) or just MOVING their hands and heads it just makes it so much more natural and convincing. Movement around the track is what I've been missing all the time racing in rF1 and other titles and for me this is important and necessary feature of the simracing game in 2014 and is one of the reasons (not only one, the other would be sound and FFB) that I'm spending much more of my racing time in R3E than in Assetto Corsa. The tracks in R3E are just spectacular and for me the best of all simracing games that I've played, and 3d crowd is one of the reasons. If Project CARS would not have it I would be very dissapointed.

I'm all for 3D crowds but, not at the cost of more important things such as physics or smooth FPS/gameplay. Once we get past the initial discovery stage of any new title and are involved in some intense racing, the crowds tend to blend in with the overall track scene IMO. Having said that, the option to switch on/off 3D characters would be nice too. In the end, it is one of those features that has questionable return on investment of resources.

 

[RDPCFN1]

If you have time to pay attention to figure out if the crowd is 3D or 2D your driving to slow, or playing the wrong game....

Anyway here is a comparison of driving between AC w/ AI and pCars w/ AI
AC RC 1.0 AI race

I prefer pCars, but meh its all choice. Pick the one you like and master it!

 

[RDPCFN1]

pCars B843 AI Race

Couldn't do 2 videos in one post

 

[Stefan Sparco]

The command line option -skipcrowds gets rid of all the crowds and gives a bit of fps boost.

I've just been trying the Formula Gulf in pCars, been about 4 months since I last fired up this game. I chose the Gulf because it's the closest to the Formula Abarth in AC which I've been driving a lot recently.

Adjusted the tyre force so FFB wouldn't clip and made some setup changes for Spa to get close to my Abarth time.

It's good but not as satisfying as the Abarth to drive. You get really nice FFB feelings in AC like when the rear end is getting loose and when you go round a corner on the slip angle of the tyres etc. (I use a CSW v1).

I know the FFB in pCars is being worked on at the moment, if they can get some of this FFB feel in, it will be every bit as good as AC.

Two of the kerbs at Spa (pCars) were doing strange things to the FFB which meant I couldn't use them. The AC Spa is the superior track (better elevations and kerbs) no doubt because it's laser scanned but pCars has laser scanned Brands Hatch which is fab .

 

[Sicario Del Toro]

@stephen Sekhon
The formula gulf is one car I would not recommend to test , it on rails ,poor handling , try formula C --- or formula B , make sure all assist are off .
You might have to adjust the ffb for formula c , still needs work but good and enjoyable to drive .

 

[RDPCFN1]

The command line option -skipcrowds gets rid of all the crowds and gives a bit of fps boost.

I've just been trying the Formula Gulf in pCars, been about 4 months since I last fired up this game. I chose the Gulf because it's the closest to the Formula Abarth in AC which I've been driving a lot recently.

Adjusted the tyre force so FFB wouldn't clip and made some setup changes for Spa to get close to my Abarth time.

It's good but not as satisfying as the Abarth to drive. You get really nice FFB feelings in AC like when the rear end is getting loose and when you go round a corner on the slip angle of the tyres etc. (I use a CSW v1).

I know the FFB in pCars is being worked on at the moment, if they can get some of this FFB feel in, it will be every bit as good as AC.

Two of the kerbs at Spa (pCars) were doing strange things to the FFB which meant I couldn't use them. The AC Spa is the superior track (better elevations and kerbs) no doubt because it's laser scanned but pCars has laser scanned Brands Hatch which is fab .

Agreed on all points. I use the -skipcrowds option when doing freepractice and what not, but on the recordings I leave them in, to give a decent representation.

As for the FFB, I like both kinda, but I find the AC FFB to be to "guiding" and as for the pCars FFB to be more "telling". What I mean by this is that what the AC FFB is doing is, it guides me to turn more or less, on pCars I just get told either too much or you can steer more but I have to figure out how much more I can do. I dunno how to explain it. I hopped into AC and I could drive the perfect line, in pCars I had to figure out the limits and then apply them more cleanly with each lap. I don't think I can explain it but it just doesn't feel right to me. I understand why others prefer AC though...

This could be due to the fact that the FFB isn't done on some cars, but as for the GT3 cars, they all feel good. In the video above, ABS was off, you can see the lock up on the last chicane after missing the breaking point and too much brake was applied, the wheel just kind went lighter and more loose, the moment traction regained it got stiffer. Either way, as mentioned its a WIP and will be worked out before release.

Overall, there are things that AC does nicely, but I just can't play the game. It feels so bland, to me at least, I just keep coming back to pCars and the game is more buggy lol.

This is all my personal opinion, and everyone has a different taste or desire out of FFB. I am of the opinion that the wheel should just do what a wheel does in a real car, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[RaceNut]

Of course, in a real car we have a tremendous advantage of having "seat-of-the-pants" feedback. For that reason, I think having some additional FFB through the wheel can be a way to compensate a little for what is missing in the game environment. That combined with audio cues can go some way to better communicate what the virtual car is doing, . . . unless you are using a motion simulator.

 

[Stefan Sparco]

@Stephen Sekhon
The formula gulf is one car I would not recommend to test , it on rails ,poor handling , try formula C --- or formula B , make sure all assist are off .
You might have to adjust the ffb for formula c , still needs work but good and enjoyable to drive .

Not really, the Formula Gulf handles fine with a few setup changes. The physics might even be more advanced than the Abarth in AC. It's the FFB communication that's lacking at the moment. For example in the attached vid, the slide at Les Combes on the first lap and Stavelot on the second lap weren't felt through the FFB like they would have been with the Abarth in AC.

 

[RDPCFN1]

Agreed, but I think using the audio instead of giving you useless (in my opinion) effects in the wheel is the better way to go. That's my opinion though, I just don't want to fight against useless info in the wheel. Is it nice sure maybe, but it does nothing to help you drive the car, again personal opinion. I do agree on the motion rig, that type of feedback info should be put into the motion rigs where it belongs, all the dips and bumps and vibrations should be translated into that machine, leave the wheel to do wheel things

As I said before some people prefer it and or want it and anything without it sucks, but to me its just useless info. I can hear the kerbs, bumps, dirt, and see through the in car camera how the car bounces around etc.. Heck they sell pedals now with vibration motors so you can have FFB for ABS in the pedal.

I think the FFB thing is just based on old tech, where that was the only way to communicate with the hands or maybe compensate for poor simulation of tyres/physics by giving more info than necessary. Tech has changed, sims have changed, and you can get much better info, proper info, delivered through the proper items

I didn't start driving pCars properly until I put on headphones and LISTENED to what was happening with the car, and payed attention to the wheel feedback as well as visual cues. To me it gives proper feedback on the steering in relation to road change and weight shift as well as tyre grip, again better on some cars than others, WIP and all.

Note: This is personal opinion, take it as such. As stated before, pick the one you like best and enjoy the ever living crap out of it, no one is obligated to like the samething you do!

I will post one more video hopefully tomorrow

 

[ONT]

Just a quick note on where FFB is at present, from the WMD forum today

"Unfortunately, by that definition of beta, which is a good definition, the FFB is /not/ in beta,
because the GUI exposure is a feature, is not there yet in a usable way, so FFB is not feature complete.

We are in a rough FFB window at the moment.

The new GUI exposure is in enough to intercept tweakers,
but not in enough to really dial anything completely."

"FACT: pCARS FFB is under "heavy construction" right now.
YOU'VE BEEN WARNED."

 

[RaceNut]

Just a quick note on where FFB is at present, from the WMD forum today

"Unfortunately, by that definition of beta, which is a good definition, the FFB is /not/ in beta,
because the GUI exposure is a feature, is not there yet in a usable way, so FFB is not feature complete.

We are in a rough FFB window at the moment.

The new GUI exposure is in enough to intercept tweakers,
but not in enough to really dial anything completely."

"FACT: pCARS FFB is under "heavy construction" right now.
YOU'VE BEEN WARNED."

I think that last part (Warning) is taken a bit out of context but, the overall message definitely applies in the current builds.

 

[Tim Lundy]

pCars B843 AI Race

Couldn't do 2 videos in one post

There's still a bug in there where the AI are hitting the brakes on the straight for no reason, but outside of that, that's about the best PCars AI I've seen. No first lap catastrophe either which is welcome news. They are definitely making progress in that department.

 

[Krzysztof Volek]

...that's about the best PCars AI I've seen.

Have you tried WTCC in Race Room? If not, I stongly suggest it. Once set up properly according to your skill and racing pace they behave very good and offer really decent racing.

 

[bmanic]

The track where you get the best AI experience at the moment is Dubai International, running GT3 cars (set the AI to "same class" and you get a full field of different GT3 cars). It is amazing at 90% AI difficulty!! Best single player racing experience I've ever had in a sim.

Just imagining that this will hopefully translate to all the other cars and tracks has me salivating! It's going to be an amazing experience for people like me who have very little time playing online.

 

[Urban Chaos 2.0]

I have both Assetto Corsa and Project Cars. I even have rFactor 2, and WRS by Piboso. I've experienced enough sim racing, plus hard driving with my own car to know the difference. The vast majority of people saying "Project Cars isn't a sim" are fanboy morons who don't know anything in the slightest about vehicle dynamics and simulation, and move from froum post to forum post saying posting the exact same nonsense against Project Cars. They are desperate children who even create fake accounts and move around pretending to have "reviewed" Project Cars and deemed it an arcade/simcade game. It's disgusting and pathetic behaviour. Most of these are Assetto Corsa fans. Ironic, because AC is so much inferior to PC.

Assetto Corsa's chassis simulation is unrealistically stiff, and the tyre-model as well is inferior to Project Cars'. Notice how much "on rails" Assetto Corsa seems to be, even in videos. The car is as stiff as a ****ing board. When playing it, it's worse.

Project Cars' suspension dynamics and tyre-model adhesion mechanics are far superior to what games like AC or iRacing offer. The body roll, the transfer of weight from one direction to another, the grip levels, etc. are all modelled more realistically in Project Cars.

Overall, Project Cars is by far the better simulation. Assetto Corsa and iRacing do not even support rain. Why? Their physics models are incapable of simulating the effect of rain on a vehicle.

99.99% of AC/iR/rF2 fanboys, don't know what in the **** they are talking about.

I mean, the rate at which the games' physics engines output data is as well a very telling fact. iRacing's physics engine ticks at 360Hz. That's only slightly faster than Assetto Corsa's 333Hz. rFactor 2 is second best, at 400Hz. Project Cars' physics simulation refreshes at a considerable 600Hz. Far higher than the aforementioned games. It's a far more accurate model.

Also: For some reason, videogame fanboys are all so *incredibly stupid*, they think FFB and physics are the same thing, and when they try Project Cars, they don't bother to set it up. It boggles my mind how someone can be so foolish as to think FFB and physics are the same thing. On top of that, these fanboys fail to set FFB up. You cannot FAIL to set up the force feedback settings, and then use the resulting lack of feedback to judge realism. That's something videogame fanboys need to stop doing. How in the **** can you jump into a simulator, and then fail to set things up, and then subsequently blame anything but yourself for the lack of immersion.

FFB is not an abstraction of physics. If that was the case, then many real-world vehicles which give poor feedback via the steering wheel would be "unrealistic": A nonsensical concept. The fact that FFB can be dependent on physics simulation DOES NOT MEAN its an abstraction of physics simulation. That's why you tune FFB in a game/sim, instead of tuning the physics. They are not the same thing, and cannot, to any reasonable extent, be interchangeable metrics for realism. FFB is FFB. You can't judge physics from FFB.

In terms of physics simulation and realism, Project Cars is certainly on top. Second to that, is rFactor 2.

You need to understand that the internet is filled with a large number immensely stupid and ignorant people. People who not only know nothing about the things they type, but are also far too unintelligent to be able to effectively comprehend the subject matters. They go around posting nonsense and trash about things like Project Cars because they want to be part of the movement of morons who go around trumpeting the same thing.

Simple truth is: Project Cars is the most realistic commercially available simulator in the world right now. Assetto Corsa does not come close.

 

[Sicario Del Toro]

^^^^
I bet you like pCars ,,, lol --- some people love it some hate it , I find it very enjoyable but man there some weird hate in your post .

 

[Urban Chaos 2.0]

I know it comes across funny due to the cursing, but it's not hate. It simply disgusts me to see the kind of nonsense people are posting online. I mean, when I first started playing games like rFactor 2, I began coming across all these hate measeges against Project Cars. I thought "Woah, Project Cars must be a terrible arcade game". But then I actually tried it out, and was blown the **** away by the handling model. It was, very, very good as a first impression. I just couldn't make sense of all the hate and bashing people were giving to Project Cars. After actually conversing with these people who bash the game, I started to realise they were a bunch of moronic fanboys. People who, for one reason or another dedicated their lives to hating another sim. As stated, 99.9% of them knew absolutely nothing about vehicular dynamics and simulation. They couldn't rate a physics engine to save their lives. They were just bashing the sim.

See, if it were only a few nutcases bashing Project Cars on one forum thread, it wouldn't be an issue. But instead, we have these nutcases who go around influencing others to become nutcases. They then run around like crazy, and talk rubbish. Look, I came from rFactor 2. I considered rFactor 2 to be the best, period. Until I tried Project Cars, and the simulation was hands down, the best I've experienced. It actually happens to be the most realistic sim available right now, but all the rubbish being posted by silly children on the internet would easily lead you away from it.

 

[Adam#81]

Yea the amount of hate you see PCars receive you would think it is the worst game ever. However, as I have written before, you must understand that PCars has many downfalls. For serious simracers, having no animated pitstops, no manual control in the pits, buggy replays when people disconnect and a few others that people have come to take for granted in other games, this is a reason to not play it. When you can get a complete experience in AC and iracing or rF and you hit a few "walls" in PCars, you re not gonna give that game too many chances, unless it blows you away. So I understand these people that need absolute consistency when playing and not deal with crap like online problems etc. Me, I m as happy as it gets, I love this game and I m having tons of fun for one full year now, I play multiplayer only every now and then, so I don't experience the bad things a lot of people are reporting. I actually haven't encountered even one bug, except for the AI behaviour and car sticking to one another (can model issue) but that doesn't mean that others are having a smooth gameplay.

So, while I appreciate your enthusiasm about PCars, you have to take into account what each person is looking for in a game. And also be aware that you are sounding a little like the AC emplo... I mean fanboys, only from the PCars side. Yes AC has its issues, but it's not as bad as you are describing it.

 

[ouvert]

When you can get a complete experience in AC

I`m not saying AC is as bad as he described, or that pC is good game but with dozens basic features missing AC is probably the least complete experience from all sims at this moment ... luckily they are still working on it and few of missing features will be added ..