Cars PM3DM Super Touring Cars

[Dougie1142]

Watching this closely, can start a BTCC specific server when launched and host correct period tracks.

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Just having tried the new Knockhill 2017 mod track recently I immediately thought about this BTCC mod in the works - these cars would be amazing around Knockhill, and Oulton Park, and Donington, and … Oschersleben may I add ;-)

I am especially looking forward to the Renault Laguna and the Mondeo.

You guys maybe should be looking into options to be financially rewarded for all that hard work.
There is the option of opening (unrelated to the mod) donations to the mod group.
There is the option as has been used in the wonderful recently (pre-) released RSS GT1 mod.

If you guys do quality work and release a complete pack of scratch built cars for todays super detailed and laborious racing sims, you do deserve to be paid for your work.

 

[Dougie1142]

Just having tried the new Knockhill 2017 mod track recently I immediately thought about this BTCC mod in the works - these cars would be amazing around Knockhill, and Oulton Park, and Donington, and … Oschersleben may I add ;-)

You guys maybe should be looking into options to be financially rewarded for all that hard work.
There is the option of opening (unrelated to the mod) donations to the mod group.
There is the option as has been used in the wonderful recently (pre-) released RSS GT1 mod.

I

+1 to this. Knockhill is my local, would be great to try them there.

 

[Patrik Marek]

Just having tried the new Knockhill 2017 mod track recently I immediately thought about this BTCC mod in the works - these cars would be amazing around Knockhill, and Oulton Park, and Donington, and … Oschersleben may I add ;-)

I am especially looking forward to the Renault Laguna and the Mondeo.

You guys maybe should be looking into options to be financially rewarded for all that hard work.
There is the option of opening (unrelated to the mod) donations to the mod group.
There is the option as has been used in the wonderful recently (pre-) released RSS GT1 mod.

If you guys do quality work and release a complete pack of scratch built cars for todays super detailed and laborious racing sims, you do deserve to be paid for your work.

thank you, we might consider something
but our goal was never to make money
officially selling it would also open potential issues with licensing and officially licensing these might be impossible

when i thought about doing payware, I would really like to do it officially licensed, but that would drive price up quite a bit, and as I said, in these cases it would be very difficult to get proper licenses

 

[Patrik Marek]

actually, it will be easily possible to keep the folders/files with prefix, but have the car respect their brands in the UI , speaking of which

if anyone has a good writing style, I'd be glad to have him update descriptions for the cars. I do not want to just copy / paste something from the wikipedia, would like to have something personal/stylized a bit

anyone interested ?

 

[Dirk Steffen]

thank you, we might consider something
but our goal was never to make money
officially selling it would also open potential issues with licensing and officially licensing these might be impossible

when i thought about doing payware, I would really like to do it officially licensed, but that would drive price up quite a bit, and as I said, in these cases it would be very difficult to get proper licenses

At first (years ago) I was opposed to the idea as how URD produced their mods circumventing licensing and using fantasy names on their cars. Now though I fully support this idea as it both gives a chance for content creators to get paid for their work and gives us a chance to have first rate content.

I would not be opposed to have a Aura B4, Pro Mondo, Pug 415, Volo V4, ... with all original skins but logos as done in the old Gran Turismo titles (on first sight looking like the real thing).
Content Manager (or mods) can take care of car names and brands and usually the fine community with talented livery designers will take care of skins.

Another idea would be to take content un-related donations but issue full content.

Licensing is not an option as the user base for this mod is simply unrealistically small to finance licensing through reasonable mod pack costs.

I really would love to see racing sim content creators to move with AAA mods into the direction as with flight sims (look at DCS and the modules available from 3rd parties) - fairly priced mods with top quality, constant development and support, all to support an industry of content creators who will be able to do this full time for a living.

The complexity and effort to produce AAA content for the current ever more complex racing sims is just too much for hobbyists to work on. Time needed to create a single car model is immense compared to what it was with GPL or even ISI1 titles. People talk about tire models, aero drag figures and correct suspension geometry nowadays - that all needs extraordinary amounts of data to collect, relationships to ex drivers, team members, manufacturers, ...

 

[Patrik Marek]

I don't think it would be that bad ( well, BTCC aside) , when I was interested in licenses some 10 years ago, license for 1 car was something like 1600 euros, which - if the car was sold for 20, it's only 80 sold cars and you payed for license, but of course, 20 euros per 1 car is a steep price !! , but I figure that if it's officially licensed, it would be fine , .. seems to "work" for flight simulators where the user base is even smaller

of course for some cars this would be way out of reach

yes, it all takes way more time now,
but hey, .. if people don't mind waiting, it's fine - especially if it comes free

making this "payware" won't speed things up that much imo , and it would also mean that you as modder would sometimes be forced to do cars that you don't like, becasue the revenue will be higher ..etc.

I don't know if I wanted to do this for living though, I used to do it for a 3 years and the biggest downside is that when doing this full time, you have no more energy to work on personal stuff / cars that you like, and that's imo way worse then if this is being done in the evenings

but it's nice to hear some different opinions on this

I do agree that to sustain the "production of quality content in timely manner" this needs to be done by team as they full time payed work,
who knows if we do any other cars once we're done with BTCC

one way to make money, which I actually prefer - is , by showing top quality mods, being hired by some outside company to produce car for them, so that they can use it in real life simulators for their actual race cars,

this way - imo - you make way more money then you ever would by just selling the mods other way, but as I said though, you might work on stuff you don't like to do

but anyhow, ..this would be good discussion over beer or something,
it sounds tempting to make money on the side, but - in my humble personal oppinion - such person should seek working as official freelance for a gaming studio, you learn way more, improve faster and make way more money

 

[Ben Lee]

Yep, I'm not keen on doing payware. The content should be for everyone to enjoy, the money doesn't really interest me.

I'm committed to keeping it free.

 

[Mascot]

Yep, I'm not keen on doing payware. The content should be for everyone to enjoy, the money doesn't really interest me.

I'm committed to keeping it free.

That's a fantastic attitude Ben - bravo!
I'm fine rewarding modders with couple of drinks if I end up liking and using their mods (and they have a 'donate' button), but I've never liked the 'pay in advance' model that some teams use.

 

[Grand Tourist]

That's a fantastic attitude Ben - bravo!
I'm fine rewarding modders with couple of drinks if I end up liking and using their mods (and they have a 'donate' button), but I've never liked the 'pay in advance' model that some teams use.

Agreed, I donated some mods before and will keep doing so as long as quality is top. The system of CM is the most interesting to me : free "light" version and pay what you want for the upgraded one. If 1,000 simracers offer €1-2-5-10 for your product, that is a nice financial reward is it not? They won't all pay at once but once the quality is proven, the donation will follow surely. So maybe offer the 1 car, and after voluntary donations one can download the car pack... Just a thought. I used to charge €20-50 for livery designs, but that is 1or2 design for mostly pro simracers. I put up to 50 hrs in a design, that is not expensive. On the other hand I offered many liveries to the community for free, and sometimes still do. It's a grey area and someone will always disagree.

 

[Patrik Marek]

but with free sample and rest after donation you are still preventing some people from accessing your mod, so yeah don't like that. It will always be free
we could introduce donations, but those won't be there to give you extra content out unlock full versions

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Excellent vision on that Patrik.

 

[Patrik Marek]

Excellent vision on that Patrik.

oh that aston in your avatar .....

 

[hage]

Great Work. The Primera is excelent both look and driving. Would love to see these quality Supertourers!!! Is a Vectra planned? Love the 97/98 Triple8 build Cars.

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

oh that aston in your avatar .....

Yes.. I like it a lot as well... Such a shame there are no proper Astons in game..

Great Work. The Primera is excelent both look and driving. Would love to see these quality Supertourers!!! Is a Vectra planned? Love the 97/98 Triple8 build Cars.

Yes, over at post #5
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/pm3dm-super-touring-cars.144486/#post-2637397

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

 

[stubs66]

I wanted to say, i'm blown away by your Primera mod. Now I see the detail you are going in to, it explains! Love this stuff....Without wishing to bore you, in and aroundyear 2000 i owned and raced a BTCC 1990/91 Cavalier.
I am amazed how closely the physics compare, you got it spot on!
The crazy wagging tail (especially on cold tyres), brutal 'foot in' technique, the manic scrabbling for traction, really the whole demeanor of the car, whether crawling along the pits, or on the raggedy limit, it's beautifuly done.
These were very physical , visceral machines, and challenging to get right. Honestly I can't think of a better more realistic 'sim car' right now in ANY title. Really, anyone involved in Sim Racing should experience it, a reference for all others. (Acknowledging there are other very good mods out there too).

By the way, engine, rebuilds on these were insane, you were talking a max of 500- 1000 miles, it was involved and extremely specialized work. Despite, by modern standards, a relatively modest -sounding 150-170 bhp per-litre, these engines were running at their limits.

Hence, they were massively costly to run, a service/rebuild being anything from £5k to well over £10 at a time, and that was all the way then.

Anyway, i just wanted to say too, please stay with your philosophy, absolute attention to detail appears to be everything, you're clever people. I can only imagine what a labor of love it must be,

Thanks for your brilliant work, can't wait to see your next release as and when it arrives.

 

[stubs66]

nope

I would contribute for sure!

 

[GianmarcoFiduci]

Guys.. any more Alfa screenshots?

 

[Patrik Marek]

Guys.. any more Alfa screenshots?

no noticeable updates on Alfa unfortunatelly, we will post something once we do !