F1 2011 Penalty discussion

[Rich Maskell]

Posted this here because I want to discuss it too.

I keep getting penalties for things like this (below). I hardly make any alterations to the car [force india] yet the other driver is all over the road.

What could I have done differently? apart from move over the other side of the track to let Hamilton pass!!

Any advice appreciated, cheers

 

[Wojciech Grabowski]

You didn't leave any space for him, so penalty is OK, but why he slowed down? I don't now. But the space you left was to small.

You can't do nothing with this. I think penalty system in '11 is OK, now we have to watch other cars.

 

[Leso]

My opinion is that the penalty system is still pretty bad in 2011. I've never heard of driver getting a 10 position penalty during a practice session for any reason in real sessions. And blocking during a practice session? That's ridiculous. The blue flag penalty is faulty too. I've been blue flagged during a yellow flag caution period in which no passing is allowed and given a drive through for not allowing the whole pack of cars to pass me.

 

[maxwelbr]

Penalty system is very bugged, but in your example you didn't leave enough space for him to pass safely. Its also partly due to crap AI that hamilton slowed down because he wanted to avoid the collision

 

[Rocky Burney]

Was running 100% at Istanbul last night, full sim no assists, and came out of the pits on fresh options behind Webber and Vettel putting me one lap down. Vettel was mid-stint on primes, and I soon caught and passed him to get my lap back and while matching Webber's pace we opened up a 3 second gap in 3 laps, at which point I get the blue light to let Vettel back by and before I can even let off the accelerator I get slapped with a drive-through for ignoring the blue light. Ouch.

OP Edit: That particular penalty looked like a valid call...Hamilton had a run up the inside and you pretty much ran him off the track.

 

[Jayc72]

The Force India car in the attached video was clearly in the wrong. Penalty is legit.
Going by the FIA rules, a car can only make one blocking motion. The Force India car clearly, made one move to the right to block, then moved back slightly to the left and moved back again to the right for a 2nd block.

Also when the passing car's front wheels are up to the middle of the Force India's car, you have to leave room for it. You cannot close the door on it creating a dangerous situation.

Because the above infringements caused an accident, the penalty is legit.

As for Blue flag penalties, A driver may incur penalties if they ignore three successive blue flags.
So by the time you see a Blue led flash on the screen, it might have been your 3rd blue flag. You need to go by the blue flags the marshalls wave at the trackside.

A single yellow indicates danger ahead, such as debris from a crash. Drivers must slow down as they pass; no overtaking is permitted, unless it is unavoidable such as a driver retiring in the section, or a driver is lapped.
If you get a Blue flag during a Yellow flag situation, you are being lapped. It's different to overtaking.
Overtaking assumes you are fighting for position.
So if you are so slow to the point that the race leaders are lapping you , YOU have to give way even under a Yellow flag.
However, the car directly behind you (in track position) cannot overtake under Yellow flag situation.
That is, if you are in 16th position, and you get a Yellow followed by a Blue, you have to let race leaders between position 1 and 15 pass, but the car in positions 17 up CANNOT pass under a Yellow Flag.

Learn the F1 rules this game is built upon and stop complaining.

Now as for the 10 position penalty, I'm not saying there isn't a bug, but maybe it's the notification of an infringement to the rules, that is broken in the game.
Under FIA rules, a penalty may be imposed for more severe infractions: adding ten places to the driver's grid position at the next grand prix, e.g. if he qualified in pole position he would start the race eleventh from the front.
But note "For more serious rule-breakages, an even more extreme penalty may be imposed but AFTER the race."
Maybe this is what is happening, but you are not being told about it properly by this game. So look back to your last Race or Quali or Practice, did you break any of the FIA rules?


Go check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_regulations for a quick summary of the FIA rules governing this sport.
Check out http://www.f1rules.com/ for a more in depth and detailed representation of the rules.
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/ is good too with a summary and an in depth section of the rules.

 

[Graham Laing]

How about this one?

I was a bit annoyed with this penalty. I am the leader, and I lapped Heidfield who is a back marker. He is now in the DRS zone and attempted an illegal overtake at the end of the straight, but I got a penalty. Why would I need to leave extra room for him, when he shouldn't be there?

BTW I didn't deliberately cut him off, I didn't notice his nose come into view at the time, but I knew he was close, but assumed he wouldn't attempt an overtake .....

 

[Jayc72]

How about this one?

I was a bit annoyed with this penalty. I am the leader, and I lapped Heidfield who is a back marker. He is now in the DRS zone and attempted an illegal overtake at the end of the straight, but I got a penalty. Why would I need to leave extra room for him, when he shouldn't be there?

BTW I didn't deliberately cut him off, I didn't notice his nose come into view at the time, but I knew he was close, but assumed he wouldn't attempt an overtake .....

This one's a bit tougher with only one camera angle. The stewards in a real race will have the benefit of multiple camera angles and replays.
However, while Heidfield was lapped, that was in no way an illegal overtake.
A lapped driver is still able to un-lap themselves. And if you were driving slow enough, they have every right to un-lap themselves.

Looking in your mirrors, Heidfield was much faster, with DRS, and got up to the middle of your car (@59secs). You can just see his front wing. At which point, you turned in on him and didn't leave enough racing room. Any blocking should have been done earlier, before the other car gets up to the middle of your car. You did use your mirrors to check for faster cars didn't you?

So yes I'm afraid, you turned in on a faster car, albeit one that was lapped.

Didn't see him. Should be there. Assumed he shouldn't overtake. Are all not good reasons. You're an F1 driver, you should be aware of your surroundings. This game gives you the added benefit of those white arrows to tell you a car is closeby. Use it to your advantage next time.
Real life drivers do stupid things as well in the heat of the moment. So if you are aware of your surroundings and see an idiot that doesn't look like they will slow down on time for a corner ... will you continue on your racing line knowing that you have right of way OR will you take evasive action and dodge ? If you had checked your mirrors, you could have avoided the collision. Heidfield might have passed you, but you would still be in the lead.
Under section 16.1 of the rules,
16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to the race director for investigation) which:
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Articles 41;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code;
- caused a false start by one or more cars;
- caused a collision;
- forced a driver off the track;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.
Unless in the opinion of the race director it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

you have violated the three highlighted in red.

The penalty of 20 seconds is legit too. Since you have less than 5 laps to go, a time penalty can be given instead of the drive-through penalty or the Stop&Go penalty.

 

[Apex1972]

Was running 100% at Istanbul last night, full sim no assists, and came out of the pits on fresh options behind Webber and Vettel putting me one lap down. Vettel was mid-stint on primes, and I soon caught and passed him to get my lap back and while matching Webber's pace we opened up a 3 second gap in 3 laps, at which point I get the blue light to let Vettel back by and before I can even let off the accelerator I get slapped with a drive-through for ignoring the blue light. Ouch.

OP Edit: That particular penalty looked like a valid call...Hamilton had a run up the inside and you pretty much ran him off the track.

I call that Massas revenge move.

 

[Apex1972]

How about this one?

I was a bit annoyed with this penalty. I am the leader, and I lapped Heidfield who is a back marker. He is now in the DRS zone and attempted an illegal overtake at the end of the straight, but I got a penalty. Why would I need to leave extra room for him, when he shouldn't be there?

BTW I didn't deliberately cut him off, I didn't notice his nose come into view at the time, but I knew he was close, but assumed he wouldn't attempt an overtake .....

i see the frame rates look about the same in all videos. it looks like its pretty high, just not fluid looking. its like every half second there is a very slight skip. i really hate that.

 

[Rich Maskell]

Learn the F1 rules this game is built upon and stop complaining.

Who's complaining?

Learn some manners and stop being so agressive

 

[HROAndi]

I feel the penalties are fair most of the times. I did encounter the blue flag LED aswell, but I have to admit I almost certainly missed the waved flags... ... so I guess that too is fair. In any case it's a lot better than it was in F1 2010!

 

[Graham Laing]

This one's a bit tougher with only one camera angle. The stewards in a real race will have the benefit of multiple camera angles and replays.
However, while Heidfield was lapped, that was in no way an illegal overtake.
A lapped driver is still able to un-lap themselves. And if you were driving slow enough, they have every right to un-lap themselves.
------>>>>> SNIP <<<<<-----

Thanks for the input. I must admit that it never crossed my mind that a driver can legally unlap himself, apart from the lead car having an accident or failure. So essentially I was just taking it easy, maintaining a 5+ second gap to Button.

You make a fair point, so I stand corrected, Cheers

i see the frame rates look about the same in all videos. it looks like its pretty high, just not fluid looking. its like every half second there is a very slight skip. i really hate that.

Hi, I don't get this skip, either when playing back the original OR the youtube video. I have had that problem recently though, where essentially the capture software was skipping frames. I solved this (as far as I'm concerned), by using the high compression setting in Playclaw (which isn't really high actually, just high relative to no compression). I noticed that I have plenty of spare CPU capacity when running this game with Playclaw using 6 cores, the cpu running around 60-70%. I also capture full frame at 30 fps, the hit to the game leaves me at around 35 - 45 fps in game.

I used to capture at 60 fps to give smoother video, and of course you-tube re-encodes it at 30 fps. I would prefer this, as you are giving them more to work with. I might try it again @ 60 fps, it just depends on the hit to the game. The full video of the Valancia race is 1 hr 42 mins, and the file size is 176 GB (with that compression), so that would double at 60 fps.

BTW I have FRAPs too, but that hits my frame rate in game more and is uncompressed RGB, so even bigger .....

Cheers

 

[Jayc72]

Who's complaining?

Learn some manners and stop being so agressive

Rich,
my comments are in no way directed at you alone.
Notice I didn't quote your post. Notice I didn't mention your name or address it to you directly.
Apologies for the misunderstanding. Rather than using the words Stop complaining, I might have written ... accept the fact that, in most situations, the game has correctly reflected the FIA rules it is based upon.

Ah, but that is so long ! and my post was becoming epicly long already.

I must say though, that the rules this game is based on is in no way infallible itself. Hence FIA constantly plugging loop holes to the rules numerous times a season. Mostly whenever Adrian Newey comes up with some new radical design that flaunts the rules.

 

[acdc09]

My most recent problem driving Williams at monza.. practice in the rain. As it seems near immpossible to get anywhere in the top 10. AI cars posting early 1.20s!! So I wait With 10mins to go the track starts to dry so i put intermidiates on an go out for a quick lap, and there all cruising around at 50mph in the racing line holding me up/blocking. As wel as this breaking way to early, And if i go for the overtake they generally swerve of off line causing huge collision..WHICH I GET THE PENALTY FOR! If i cruise around at this speed i get a pen for illegal blocking! It SUCKS!

 

[Rich Maskell]

What about this one?