PC1 pCARS offering refunds?

[Blkout]

http://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/24jf3o/are_you_a_pcars_funder_and_want_a_refund_click/

What's going on here?

 

[Blkout]

As the game gets closer to what it will look and feel like. I suppose quite a few of the investors are starting to realise that it is very similar to Shift 2 but more refined. I don't mind this now. I know what it is and what it feels like so far and I am quite happy with that. But I don't blame some investors for pulling out now. It is clearly not going to be the race sim of all sims. But it will be good.

To be honest Andy, I never knew what to expect so I'm not upset if its not as sim-like as AC, I'll still play it anyway as a racing game and car enthusiast. I would hope its more like the original Shift than S2U though in regards to physics and FFB.

 

[Leemstradamus]

The brakes lock up very fast in netKar Pro with my T500 pedals so I don't know if that's the issue you were having but it can be hard to modulate pedal pressure and not lock the brakes.

When I moved to the clubsport v2 pedals. I no longer had that issue. I'll never leave load cell ever! Lol

 

[Leemstradamus]

To be honest Andy, I never knew what to expect so I'm not upset if its not as sim-like as AC, I'll still play it anyway as a racing game and car enthusiast. I would hope its more like the original Shift than S2U though in regards to physics and FFB.

The physics are far better than that game but it seems more like a successor to that one instead of 2.

 

[Kyle Pearson]

I'll watch it when I get home Kyle, but let me ask, what game does he compare it to currently? I'm not concerned if he considers it realistic or not, to be honest, iRacing has a who's who list of professional racers swearing its the best thing since sliced bread and many sim racers would argue otherwise. I was just curious what game it most resembles at the moment to give me an idea of what to expect. I've already stated what my ideal game would be.

I think it's hard to compare it to anything at the moment. pCARs has a completely different feel than anything else since there is a brand new tire model at work. The closest thing I could say it feels like (speaking only of the GT3 cars here) would be the Endurance Racers rFactor mod (without Realfeel) crossed with GTR2.

Why? There are some sensations that sim drivers normally expect, which are not coming through at the moment. These are generally non-steering/tire related forces (read canned) and when the Endurance Racers mod came out on rFactor, a lot of drivers complained about the lack of feel. Although some real life drivers claim it was authentic. I know I spent a lot of time tweaking rFactor for feeling with that mod. pCARs is similar as there isn't a lot of the canned effects (granted, the FFB isn't dialed in yet). However, there are a lot of subtle effects that happen, like they did in GTR2, which at times feel brilliant. Right now this is dependent on the tire technology so some cars/tires are further than others at the moment.

There are still some aspects of the driving model that need to be addressed, and some of them are being implemented now with some of the GT and formula tire testing going on right now. It's very easy to say "this car does 1.5g's on the skidpad and so does ours". The trick is the behavior under and over the limit which is unfortunately not just "getting manufacturer numbers" as the reddit thread suggests. However, pCARS is the only sim which actually really replicates what the experience is like to be inside the cockpit of a real race car. The movement and cockpit immersion is beyond anything else out there. This has always been one of their main focuses since the Shift 2 project and it continues here.

I don't know what pCARs will be like in the end. I know what I'm aiming for and I'm doing my best to get the sim *I* want to drive.

 

[Leemstradamus]

I think it's hard to compare it to anything at the moment. pCARs has a completely different feel than anything else since there is a brand new tire model at work. The closest thing I could say it feels like (speaking only of the GT3 cars here) would be the Endurance Racers rFactor mod (without Realfeel) crossed with GTR2.

Why? There are some sensations that sim drivers normally expect, which are not coming through at the moment. These are generally non-steering/tire related forces (read canned) and when the Endurance Racers mod came out on rFactor, a lot of drivers complained about the lack of feel. Although some real life drivers claim it was authentic. I know I spent a lot of time tweaking rFactor for feeling with that mod. pCARs is similar as there isn't a lot of the canned effects (granted, the FFB isn't dialed in yet). However, there are a lot of subtle effects that happen, like they did in GTR2, which at times feel brilliant. Right now this is dependent on the tire technology so some cars/tires are further than others at the moment.

There are still some aspects of the driving model that need to be addressed, and some of them are being implemented now with some of the GT and formula tire testing going on right now. It's very easy to say "this car does 1.5g's on the skidpad and so does ours". The trick is the behavior under and over the limit which is unfortunately not just "getting manufacturer numbers" as the reddit thread suggests. However, pCARS is the only sim which actually really replicates what the experience is like to be inside the cockpit of a real race car. The movement and cockpit immersion is beyond anything else out there. This has always been one of their main focuses since the Shift 2 project and it continues here.

I don't know what pCARs will be like in the end. I know what I'm aiming for and I'm doing my best to get the sim *I* want to drive.

I always thought the in car view was amazing. But running triple screens I'm not sure how that would translate.

 

[Blkout]

I think it's hard to compare it to anything at the moment. pCARs has a completely different feel than anything else since there is a brand new tire model at work. The closest thing I could say it feels like (speaking only of the GT3 cars here) would be the Endurance Racers rFactor mod (without Realfeel) crossed with GTR2.

Why? There are some sensations that sim drivers normally expect, which are not coming through at the moment. These are generally non-steering/tire related forces (read canned) and when the Endurance Racers mod came out on rFactor, a lot of drivers complained about the lack of feel. Although some real life drivers claim it was authentic. I know I spent a lot of time tweaking rFactor for feeling with that mod. pCARs is similar as there isn't a lot of the canned effects (granted, the FFB isn't dialed in yet). However, there are a lot of subtle effects that happen, like they did in GTR2, which at times feel brilliant. Right now this is dependent on the tire technology so some cars/tires are further than others at the moment.

There are still some aspects of the driving model that need to be addressed, and some of them are being implemented now with some of the GT and formula tire testing going on right now. It's very easy to say "this car does 1.5g's on the skidpad and so does ours". The trick is the behavior under and over the limit which is unfortunately not just "getting manufacturer numbers" as the reddit thread suggests. However, pCARS is the only sim which actually really replicates what the experience is like to be inside the cockpit of a real race car. The movement and cockpit immersion is beyond anything else out there. This has always been one of their main focuses since the Shift 2 project and it continues here.

I don't know what pCARs will be like in the end. I know what I'm aiming for and I'm doing my best to get the sim *I* want to drive.

Kyle that addresses the physics and FFB, but what about the rest? Graphically I assume its like a next generation Shift? What about the menus and customization? Is it similar to anything else right now.

Your last statement about the cockpit immersion is important to me and honestly, I've never talked about it much here but I've said on other forums in the past when NFS Shift was new, that the sense of speed and immersion is the best I've ever seen and I still feel it may be the best even today. Its really good at capturing that immersion so its not surprising to hear that pCARS may be the same with the same development team.

 

[Blkout]

When I moved to the clubsport v2 pedals. I no longer had that issue. I'll never leave load cell ever! Lol

You will when you get tired of buying those cheap load cells that Fanatec sells that die every 6 months.

 

[Kyle Pearson]

I always thought the in car view was amazing. But running triple screens I'm not sure how that would translate.

I'm running triple screens and it translates extremely well. I remember one weekend afternoon doing some testing on an early version of the wet tires for a while. After a while, I took a break to get a snack. When I walked up stairs to my kitchen with all the windows opened, I paused for a minute because my mind assumed it was raining outside. The visuals were so convincing that it took my brain a second to adjust.

The downside right now is the performance with triples which is not good at this stage. However, they will begin optimizations once all of the tech is complete but it will still get worse before that phase begins as there is still more new tech to be introduced.

Kyle that addresses the physics and FFB, but what about the rest? Graphically I assume its like a next generation Shift? What about the menus and customization? Is it similar to anything else right now.

It is technically another iteration of the same graphics engine which powered the Shift series, but so much has been re-written that hard to say "It's the next gen Shift game engine". The lighting engine has been completely re-written, particle system, DX multi-threading and much more. The graphic style will still be similar to Shift as I believe SMS still wants to maintain a distinctive look (i.e. when you see a screenshot, they don't want people to guess if it's rF2, AC, iRacing or any other title). I don't see this as a bad thing as long as the visuals are life-like.

As far as the menus, there is not much to comment on them at the moment. They are in a state of flux as they test out different layouts before finalizing and cleaning it up. It doesn't appear they going with the 3D type menu system of Shift 2 (which I will take flak for it, but I really liked S2U's menu system), but more of the flat menu style sort of like Mirror's Edge (if you ever played that game). Given part of the the target market will also be consoles, it won't be customizable like AC.

I know there have been comments earlier in this thread about the thought of this being the next version of GTR2 and it not going that direction, but to be honest, it really is... Flat basic menu system, MP lobby, hosted race servers, single player career mode, quick races with AI, semi-live weather system, live track, etc... It basically is targeted to have all of the design qualities of GTR2, but with more car variety out of the box.

However, like the Shift games, I believe the plan to support modding will not be inherent.

 

[Blkout]

Thank you very much Kyle for the info. I will still play it regardless as I have every SMS game. I'm jealous some of you guys have access and I don't so I can only rely on the information you give until its released.

 

[Andy_J]

I know there have been comments earlier in this thread about the thought of this being the next version of GTR2 and it not going that direction, but to be honest, it really is... Flat basic menu system, MP lobby, hosted race servers, single player career mode, quick races with AI, semi-live weather system, live track, etc... It basically is targeted to have all of the design qualities of GTR2, but with more car variety out of the box.

But not the physics or FFB of GTR2. That's the crunch. That's what's different. That's what's turning sim racers away.

 

[Kyle Pearson]

But not the physics or FFB of GTR2. That's the crunch. That's what's different. That's what's turning sim racers away.

Different (better IMO) tire physics than GTR2 so it will feel different. It's also not using the canned FFB effects that GTR2 (and the other isiMotor games) used. However, I said "targeted to have all of the design qualities of GTR2", which means the same sim elements.

Turning sim racers away? I'm a sim racer and it hasn't turned me away. Just like any software title; some will like it and some will not. However, that generalization is incorrect. As great as some people call iRacing, there are those who don't like it. As the famous quote goes, you can't please everyone.

 

[Leemstradamus]

Different (better IMO) tire physics than GTR2 so it will feel different. It's also not using the canned FFB effects that GTR2 (and the other isiMotor games) used. However, I said "targeted to have all of the design qualities of GTR2", which means the same sim elements.

Turning sim racers away? I'm a sim racer and it hasn't turned me away. Just like any software title; some will like it and some will not. However, that generalization is incorrect. As great as some people call iRacing, there are those who don't like it. As the famous quote goes, you can't please everyone.

Iracing has a great online component but I never really liked the tire model on the entry level cars at least.

 

[Kyle Pearson]

Iracing has a great online component but I never really liked the tire model on the entry level cars at least.

The tire model has definitely improved since iRacing first started. They are on v5 right now, IIRC. I have an active iRacing account, but I don't enjoy it enough to use it. iRacing's online model is outstanding for organized "pick up" racing. I don't really see the lure in using iRacing for league play, but considering the cost of the package, I can see users wanting to get the most of their money.

The other thing iRacing has going for it is it's simplicity with regards to installation. Anyone who has fought through the various versions of mods/tracks in rFactor and GTR2 can appreciate the "download and go" approach iRacing has... No need to figure out which version of Laguna Seca a server is running so you can join it. No need to figure out which version of a mod a server is running so you don't get mismatches or flagged as a cheater. I expect the modding limitations of pCARS to bring some of that stability as well.

 

[Blkout]

Iracing has a great online component but I never really liked the tire model on the entry level cars at least.

How long ago has it been you last played Saleem? Many of the cars that are running NTMV5 are very satisfying.

 

[Birddogg66]

There were other things that drive me nuts but I wasn't very vocal. I've not put much time in it in the past few months but the SLI performance was a headache (still in beta so to be expected) controller button mapping was a pain and frankly I have gave up trying to use my clubsport setup with it, the user interface was to clunky. The graphics are out of this world but my rigs with SLI could never achieve them.

At the time I last tested it, it was not fun to use which honestly is the only real thing to judge a game on. I also have rFactor 2 and don't use it either. Both games have great potential, but getting the most out of them became a chore and my free time is too limited to want to deal with it.

I respect the fact you go into some constructive detail as to what your opinions are. I think just about everyone has had a mixed feeling about the project a time or two over the course of the last couple of years of development and ATM it's still not a fully baked cake let alone getting the icing on it so I am committed to the long haul and until there is tangible reason to not back the play of these individuals that are SMS I'm in. My final opinion will be based on the last official patch to be added if in fact one will be needed. Anyway take care and I can't say that I am happy to see you go.

 

[Leemstradamus]

I respect the fact you go into some constructive detail as to what your opinions are. I think just about everyone has had a mixed feeling about the project a time or two over the course of the last couple of years of development and ATM it's still not a fully baked cake let alone getting the icing on it so I am committed to the long haul and until there is tangible reason to not back the play of these individuals that are SMS I'm in. My final opinion will be based on the last official patch to be added if in fact one will be needed. Anyway take care and I can't say that I am happy to see you go.

Thanks for the kind words. Like I said I hope the project does well. It just didn't go in the direction that I would have hoped for. But please keep us posted on the good things that are going on. The internet is full of people who just want a platform to complain. Look at what is said on facebook about assetto corsa. No developer is immune to this type of dialog. All they can do is sift through the BS and look for the more thought out critiques and praise.

 

[William Wester]

SMS is trying to develop a racing sim, to the best of their abilities, so the true virtual racing fans (most of us) can enjoy our hobbie, just as Kunos, Reiza, ISI, Simbin are doing. Why wouldn't I support all of them (and do). It just amazes me how many have to take sides, pick there favorite and discount anything else, even as many of these are still being developed. I enjoy every one of these creations, each has features I like - variety is the spice of life!

 

[Blkout]

SMS is trying to develop a racing sim, to the best of their abilities, so the true virtual racing fans (most of us) can enjoy our hobbie, just as Kunos, Reiza, ISI, Simbin are doing. Why wouldn't I support all of them (and do). It just amazes me how many have to take sides, pick there favorite and discount anything else, even as many of these are still being developed. I enjoy every one of these creations, each has features I like - variety is the spice of life!

I totally agree with this statement and this is not a knock against Saleem or anyone that feels pCARS is not their cup of tea. I have no issue with anyone that feels a particular game just isn't for them, but I do take issue with anyone that blindly defends one product or puts down another simply because their taking sides as if its personal.

LIke you Fuzzy, I will support most all racing games and sims because I'm just a huge fan of the genre and I can probably find something I like in all of these titles. I just enjoy them for what they bring to the table, My perfect racing sim hasn't been created yet anyway and likely never will be.

 

[Leemstradamus]

I don't agree with the picking sides thing. It for me steams back to console days where maybe you couldn't have it all and could only afford one particular product. So you defend the one you can get as the best thing since sliced bread.

What I have come to realize with age and more responsibility is. That although I can afford and have many of the sims on the market, I can't enjoy all of them equally. That meaning I can take my limited time and focus on one or two and extract the most fun from that instead of trying to support everyone and having no time for any of them. I found myself doing to much of the latter. I have tons of game in my steam library that haven't even been installed. Trying to support everyone has diluted my actual enjoyment.

So I have changed gears and will vocally give support but refrain from always opening my wallet for every game released.

 

[Andy_J]

Saleem, you can buy it a year after release in the Steam sale. Be discounted by about 80% like most are these days.