One new conspiracy theory. Vettels old advantage gone?

[David O'Reilly]

OK this thread is half in jest but just consider for a moment:

When Vettel broke his new front wing they gave him Webbers prompting the "not bad for a #2 driver" radio message after he won.
When Vettel in my view caused contact at Turkey with a very presumptious overtaking move prompting the famous "he's cuckoo" twirling of the finger Christian Horner came up with some extraneuos piffle about "Seb had built up a bit more fuel margin" (yeah, following will do that to you!). Dr Evil (Helmut Marko) against the majority of pundits announcing it was Webber's error.
When Webber who had pole at Silverstone caught Vettel he was told to "maintain the gap".

So the Aussie who won Monaco and Silverstone and lead the WDC for much of the season until his wet weather error in Korea? is the #2. Second fiddle to the annointed one Seb. The one that Jaime Algusari was fired for daring to continue his hot lap in front of in free practice at Korea rather than move aside and let through.

The team has shown it will give "Seb" any advantage that they legally can over Mark Webber.

Now there is no Blown Diffuser Webber is faster or at worst equal.

What if during the last season of the domination of the "Blown Diffuser" there was more than one throttle map.Who would get the better one?
What do you think?
Why would it have been equal?

 

[cruyff]

Webber WAS faster than Vettel in Q3 the last 2 races. The blown diffuser may have been better in Vettel's car. Either that or Webber simply improved in the winter.

It's a plausible theory for sure, but surely there's no way of proving it?

A fact you may have missed is that Webber (Only him!) loses KERS at the start and/or Q3.
Now that's strange!

 

[Eric Parker]

I think that the way the car drives now is more suited to Webber's style than Vettel's; ie he is more comfortable with it. Perhaps he is more comfortable with this year's tyres vs last years as well.

 

[Luka Kerin]

I wish I could find the article but Webber has said that Vettel came to better terms with the function of the OTBD. I guess it's because Webber is an old hand and his style of driving an F1 car has been developed over a decade so he is set in his way. Unlike Vettel who is still evolving his driving and his ability to adapt to new techniques to suit different car elements is still pliable. I think that's why the tables have turned this year. Webber is driving a car with more traditional aero devices so it suits him and Vettel has to come to grips that he doesn't have a car that's so well composed any more. I'd say hell get his stuff together eventually.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

To your Answer it could Be Vettel only i'm saying this cos Horner wants SEB to go ahead rather than mark i still can't figure out but they will let SEB only go ahead Webber also struggled with last year tires in some races that is also a probable reason

I believe Webber has a better advantage than SEB due to understeer and old devices where as Seb was finding his way with this car this season.
Now i think they are closely matched to each other and also i think RBR is going to make the car in seb's way rather than mark's like in the future so i think he was going to go ahead of Webber at the end
here the Main question arises is Can They beat the Best packaged team the Mclaren and can SEB defend his title in this tightly contested season.

 

[cruyff]

I wish I could find the article but Webber has said that Vettel came to better terms with the function of the OTBD. I guess it's because Webber is an old hand and his style of driving an F1 car has been developed over a decade so he is set in his way. Unlike Vettel who is still evolving his driving and his ability to adapt to new techniques to suit different car elements is still pliable. I think that's why the tables have turned this year. Webber is driving a car with more traditional aero devices so it suits him and Vettel has to come to grips that he doesn't have a car that's so well composed any more. I'd say hell get his stuff together eventually.

Very possible.

It is also worth mentioning that Vettel finished 2009 in 2nd while Webber was 4th. I don't see why he shouldn't be #1 driver.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I´ve heard that as well Luka. I think that is a correct assessment.
But i think the reason why there are differences is not because of age or similar but simply down to driving style.

 

[Ivan Navarro]

+1

It won't matter much if Webber doesn't improve his poor starts over last couple of years. Who knows what could have been for MW. It seems that in failing to get a good jump off the line, he gave up his advantage in at least half the races! :eek:

 

[Kevin Cordice]

For me seeing MW starts it is always some what slow, that i find strange.

May Conclusion of Last Year

I think that even though last year MW did a good job in the car he had and SV exploited the one he drove, for me i saw that MW was surprised at how much grip the RB7 had to that of what he would of been driving in his career. The setup for MW was very different to what he knew almost alien. We see that SV was much more smoother than his teammate in qualifying and race pace, now that the blown diffuser is no more SV/RBR has lost that advantage on hammering the mid speed corners and slower turns at high levels of grip.

2012 season

For RBR now it is as if they are over speeding and under braking the track more of this can been seen so far from SV finding he is over driving the car and its not working out. This is a early start to the season and still planty of races to go only time will tell of how things will turn out. Me personally think that MW is much more conferrable than SV in the cars right now.

As for last year in almost every race SV would have a amazing launch of the line than MW or another on that given race day.

My Question is

Why was that of MW car was so slow off the line in 2011?
Could Webber have a physiological advantage over Vettle?

Idea

Could it be that SV lack the present car setup and not having the ingenuity to help in the ideal car setup/design which maybe MW has capitalize on in doing. Is it possible? they say a car is build around drivers inputs

I can't speak for MW nor SV but this is only my thoughts from out side looking in


Could Webber have a physiological psycohlogical advantage over Vettle
Edited

 

[Markus Neumann]

There's one flaw to the "blown-diffuser theory" on Vettel's / Webber's performance: The year before, they had the double diffuser, which was just as strong, maybe even stronger, in terms of providing rear downforce. And for most of the year, Webber was ahead of Vettel.

Could Webber have a physiological advantage over Vettle

Are you sure you mean physiological and not psychological? Because as far as the former is concerned, Webber is actually at a disadvantage because he is much taller and therefore also heavier.

Edit: Oh, and last, but not least: What are you guys even talking about. Vettel was clearly faster in both races so far. Sure, in Melbourne he screwed up his quali lap and in Malaysia he couldn't get the soft tyre working. But if it hadn't been for Karthikeyan, he would have finished ahead of Webber in both races.

 

[Kevin Cordice]

Are you sure you mean physiological and not psychological? Because as far as the former is concerned, Webber is actually at a disadvantage because he is much taller and therefore also heavier.

Sorry about that i meet Psychological

 

[David O'Reilly]

There's one flaw to the "blown-diffuser theory" on Vettel's / Webber's performance: The year before, they had the double diffuser, which was just as strong, maybe even stronger, in terms of providing rear downforce. And for most of the year, Webber was ahead of Vettel.


Are you sure you mean physiological and not psychological? Because as far as the former is concerned, Webber is actually at a disadvantage because he is much taller and therefore also heavier.

Edit: Oh, and last, but not least: What are you guys even talking about. Vettel was clearly faster in both races so far. Sure, in Melbourne he screwed up his quali lap and in Malaysia he couldn't get the soft tyre working. But if it hadn't been for Karthikeyan, he would have finished ahead of Webber in both races.

The difference is that with the double diffuser an advantage would be visible to the Webber side of the garage wheras with EBD its software and invisible.
Anyway its all fun to explore.
Webber did not like leat years tyres at all.

 

[David O'Reilly]

There's one flaw to the "blown-diffuser theory" on Vettel's / Webber's performance: The year before, they had the double diffuser, which was just as strong, maybe even stronger, in terms of providing rear downforce. And for most of the year, Webber was ahead of Vettel.


Are you sure you mean physiological and not psychological? Because as far as the former is concerned, Webber is actually at a disadvantage because he is much taller and therefore also heavier.

Edit: Oh, and last, but not least: What are you guys even talking about. Vettel was clearly faster in both races so far. Sure, in Melbourne he screwed up his quali lap and in Malaysia he couldn't get the soft tyre working. But if it hadn't been for Karthikeyan, he would have finished ahead of Webber in both races.

If it hadn't been for his wet crash in Korea Webber would have been WDC.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

There's one flaw to the "blown-diffuser theory" on Vettel's / Webber's performance: The year before, they had the double diffuser, which was just as strong, maybe even stronger, in terms of providing rear downforce. And for most of the year, Webber was ahead of Vettel.

Exhaust blown diffuser works at low speed, "old" big one won´t.

 

[Markus Neumann]

Exhaust blown diffuser works at low speed, "old" big one won´t.

True, but Webber won at slow (Monaco) and fast (Catalunya & Silverstone) tracks. In Monaco, the double diffuser probably barely had an effect at all (maybe a little in T2+3 and the tunnel), in Spain and GB it's the opposite. In my opinion, this shows that his performance didn't depend on it.
Still, I find it interesting that in 2011, Webber snatched pole in Catalunya and Silverstone again. Maybe these tracks also just suit him.

Personally, I see no reason to explain Webber's 2011 performance with anything but the tyres. He's said it himself about a hundred times and it's a very plausible explanation. So I see no reason to conjure freaky conspiracy theories out of thin air.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Silverstone is interesting because they banned EBD for that race. And not only took he pole, he hunted down Vettel as well.

The only time i can think of that year which he hunted down Vettel.

Catalunya he took pole at only because Vettel had no KERS.

 

[Kevin Cordice]

Personally, I see no reason to explain Webber's 2011 performance with anything but the tyres. He's said it himself about a hundred times and it's a very plausible explanation.

Which driver would you find blaming the car design and setup

 

[Eric Parker]

Which driver would you find blaming the car design and setup

We all know how well that worked for Petrov.

 

[Chris Jenkins]

We all know how well that worked for Petrov.

and Trulli

 

[David O'Reilly]

So I see no reason to conjure freaky conspiracy theories out of thin air.

The only reason needed is that its been fun enough for us all to debate nd certainly more plausible than Perez throwing the Malaysian GP to please Sauber engine suplier Ferrari.
In fact I give this here conspiracy theory a good 7/10 and the Perez one 4/10 and his got onto TV!!!!