Nico Rosberg

[Markus Neumann]

Let´s not forget the mistakes Hill and Williams did.
Hell even Herbert won in that car, twice.
It wasn´t like he took a Minardi or Toleman and won a WDC with it.
unless we consider the RB8 to be inferior as well.

Schumacher´s titles, all of them has come from one car designer. Rory Byrne.
I´m pretty sure this is the same path Vettel is on, but with Adrian Newey.
Arguably the two greatest designers in modern days.

The Williams was far better than the Benetton. Herbert even said that the car was terrible to drive. Williams got pole 12 times, as opposed to Benetton's 4 (while the RB8 got just as many poles as the MP4-27). And yet, Schumacher won 9 races, 7 of those not from pole. That's the mark of a far superior driver.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

7 retirements versus 15 retirements also.
Some were driver errors for sure but there was also mechanical failures.

It can´t have been that terrible when even Herbert manages to win two and it being on pole so many times.
Not to mention the 8 fastest laps.
And the 6 more wins.

 

[Markus Neumann]

Herbert only won those two because Schumacher and Hill took each other out. The Benetton wasn't the worst car, but the Williams was better, and by no small margin.

But this is really going off-topic pretty badly now. Point is: Even for the best drivers it is close to impossible to win a WDC in an inferior car. Senna is the best example. Schumacher managed it, but only because Hill was bad. If Berger had been in that Williams, Schumacher might only have 6 WDCs.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

The Main Point is: Rosberg Quicker than Sebastian and this was started by Sergio Perez

 

[Ivan Mills]

Schumacher´s titles, all of them has come from one car designer. Rory Byrne.
I´m pretty sure this is the same path Vettel is on, but with Adrian Newey.
Arguably the two greatest designers in modern days.

So what's your point?..that they won their titles cuz they had a great car designer on their team!! Isn't that the essence of any F1 driver stay in F1? ..to engenieer his career in such a way that he ends up with one?
I feel like i gotta keep explaining things to you...u come here and u talk about dissecting this and that ,yet you conveniently fail to see how simple this is!...but dont worry..i know why you doit...cuz it wont fit your argument otherwise

For the 20th time: F1 isnt about being the fastest in Q or winning in an inferior car!..Its about winning races and championships! Thats it!

 

[Hampus Andersson]

So what's your point?..that they won their titles cuz they had a great car designer on their team!! Isn't that the essence of any F1 driver stay in F1? ..to engenieer his career in such a way that he ends up with one?

So what cars you have driven in your career is a yard stick for how great you are as a driver?

No...that´s plain and simple luck if anything.

I feel like i gotta keep explaining things to you...u come here and u talk about dissecting this and that ,yet you conveniently fail to see how simple this is!...but dont worry..i know why you doit...cuz it wont fit your argument otherwise

Another batch of clean and pristine jibberish.

For the 20th time: F1 isnt about being the fastest in Q or winning in an inferior car!..Its about winning races and championships! Thats it!

Now you switch the subject. The subject was who was quicker, Vettel or Rosberg.
Not what the goal is to be in F1. Or the other discussion we had in regards to being an all-time great.

We know that according to you, most titles = greatest of all time.
Which is ridiculous.

 

[Ivan Mills]

So what cars you have driven in your career is a yard stick for how great you are as a driver?

No...that´s plain and simple luck if anything..

Simple luck!...not in Shuchamcher case it wasnt! With Vettel is more or less the same...the guy was tremedously talented when he got drafted to RB...in Scumi's case ..everyone followed to Ferrari with him
I dont see Adrian dropping his gig at RB to follow Lewis at Merc though

We know that according to you, most titles = greatest of all time.
Which is ridiculous.

According to me?!! So what do you think is the goal of any F1 driver,hmm?



As for Rosberg and Vettel..i think i expained that to you already! It's just Sergio Peres trying to rattle Sebastien cuz he thinks he can beat him this year

Is NR faster then SV...who cares! SV is a 3xWDC and on top of the world...NR has one win in his F1 career....it really doesnt matter if he faster....but he wouldnt be at Merc still if he was

 

[Metalfreaky]

So what cars you have driven in your career is a yard stick for how great you are as a driver?

No...that´s plain and simple luck if anything.

So someone like Alonso starting for a top team like Ferrari is just based on plain luck?
Or Schumacher having had a superior car?
I get what you are saying and agree that succes is something diffrent than skill.
But luck is just completly the wrong word for that. Developing a superior car is hard work from the team (just to state the obvious: the driver is part of the team). Of course engenieers play a much bigger role in the developing process, but nervertheless it is not called "you win as a team, you lose as a team" for nothing.

A great driver will always end up in a top team and will most likely have a competitive car at least once in his career to fight for the championchip.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

So someone like Alonso starting for a top team like Ferrari is just based on plain luck?
Or Schumacher having had a superior car?

Yea having the ability to get a superior car is pure luck if we look at it from the driver´s perspective.

When Vettel went to Red Bull it was pure luck he came into the team just at the moment Red Bull produced a world class design philosophy.

There´s no driver in the world that can say, next year team X will beat everyone else because team X (even if they know themselves they have built a tremendous car) don´t even know themselves until you are in Q3 Australia.

As a driver, a good one you can work with what you have and see the potential but you can never know you will get a world beater. In layman´s terms it´s pure luck from the drivers perspective.

A great driver will always end up in a top team and will most likely have a competitive car at least once in his career to fight for the championchip.

Notice the word "most likely"

That´s my point. But just because you ran great cars does not mean you are a great driver.

And as you so nicely stated, success is not a token of skills. Success means you have been sitting in the best cars for the longest amount of time.

It has absolutely nothing to do with your own personal skills other then the fact that you can take a superior car (or simply better car) and win races and championships with it.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Simple luck!...not in Shuchamcher case it wasnt! With Vettel is more or less the same...the guy was tremedously talented when he got drafted to RB...in Scumi's case ..everyone followed to Ferrari with him
I dont see Adrian dropping his gig at RB to follow Lewis at Merc though

According to me?!! So what do you think is the goal of any F1 driver,hmm?

As for Rosberg and Vettel..i think i expained that to you already! It's just Sergio Peres trying to rattle Sebastien cuz he thinks he can beat him this year

Is NR faster then SV...who cares! SV is a 3xWDC and on top of the world...NR has one win in his F1 career....it really doesnt matter if he faster....but he wouldnt be at Merc still if he was

I´m not sure but i think now you are actually just trolling, whether you realize it yourself or not.

 

[Ivan Mills]

That´s my point. But just because you ran great cars does not mean you are a great driver.

And as you so nicely stated, success is not a token of skills. Success means you have been sitting in the best cars for the longest amount of time.

It has absolutely nothing to do with your own personal skills other then the fact that you can take a superior car (or simply better car) and win races and championships with it.

huh?!!

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Geez... i honestly don´t know how much further i can break things down for you to understand what is being said.

Personal skills, talent whatever you want to call it. Has nothing to do with the car you are driving.
If Senna had driven **** cars all his career he would not be any worse of a driver, he would still be the kingpin when it comes to taking an object with four wheels and trashing it around a circuit regardless of weather conditions.

If you can´t understand that simple line of text nothing will.
This is also the reason why i chose not to dissect your post because you would not understand a damn word anyways.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Notice the word "most likely"

Tell some of the greats who never drove for a top team or had a car underneath them that was capable to fight for the championchip.
I added "most likely" because there is a chance that this never happens, but it is quite small.

Again I agree with you, that success and skill are diffrent things. We just had a season that proved exactly this.
Gilles was no doubt one of the all time greats of the sport, but in my opinion Schumacher was greater and not just beacuse of his success.
But the whole discussion is pointless. Comparing drivers who are currently racing is already a hard discussion, but comparing drivers who raced in diffrent decades is imo impossible.
It's not just that the cars are faster now, the world of F1 has completely changed.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Tell some of the greats who never drove for a top team or had a car underneath them that was capable to fight for the championchip.
I added "most likely" because there is a chance that this never happens, but it is quite small.

What i ment by most likely is there´s no cold hard facts that a driver will enjoy success because he joins a team that has a rich history.
he can go by probability but it´s by no means any form of evidence.

You are absolutely correct that eventually the good drivers find themselves in good cars but as i said, they can´t know beforehand if they have gotten a superior car or not, from the driver´s perspective it´s more or less luck in that the designer has built a fantastic machine.

Schumacher went to Ferrari on the probability that he one day would enjoy success but he did not know before hand that 2000 and onwards would give him a superior car on a yearly basis.

This is the luck part which obviously is hard work from the team, money, partnerships and plan and simple a design that is the fastest car on the grid.

Getting a superior car means titles.
Having superior skills does not mean titles.

Another way to put it is like this,

The best team always wins the championship, the best driver doesn´t always win the championship.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Comparing two drivers of different era's was not an easy thing. The Regulations, Cars every thing changes and we don't know how Schumacher will be fared in the car Gilles Drove also the other way round. So the Great Drivers in a Era stays for that era in My point of View.

Back to Point of Perez
If he was confident that he can beat Vettel then it was good for him. But If he was over confident he will simply fail to reach his expectation i.e Winning the Championship.

 

[Ejike Wodu]

A bloody good debate. I don't need TV or radio.

 

[Matthew Booth]

Nico has just had a blow out doing 200 MPH at the Bahrain test for Pirelli

I suspect he may have been himself