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New user of Fanatec CSP pedals - Calibration advice?

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Warren Dawes, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    I have just "upgraded" my G25 wheel by adding a Fanatec CSP Pedal set.
    They look very good, nice and solid, and I'm interested to see how the load cell brake pedal compares to my old G25 brake.
    My first impressions are mixed. I'm sure the pedals are working correctly, but I'm not sure I have them calibrated correctly. Or maybe I just have to learn to drive differently with them.

    The biggest difference seems to be the much longer throw of all of the pedals. I'm sure it is only a matter of getting used to the Gas pedal, but the Brake is the worry. I was under the impression that you calibrate the brake normally using the software, and you adjust the braking limit by how far the pedal is pushed, ie. you can have it stop quickly with lower pressure, or higher pressure. I am finding that I need to stand almost fully pressured on the brake pedal to get cars to stop in the game. Combined with the long travel to get to the heavy pressure point, my braking is much worse and will get quite tiring in a long race.
    I have tried adjusting the little potentiometer knob on the pedals, but I seem to have run out of adjustment (fully to the right) just getting it to 100% in the calibration software. If I ease it off, the braking is too weak.

    Is this normal? Do I just have to get used to stamping very hard fully on the brake to get full brakes? Is there a simple way to get the brake pedal to stop the cars with less pedal throw and /or lighter pressure?
    Do I have to re-set all my in-game settings for the Brake?

    The games I have tried them with so far are GTL and Richard Burns Rally.

    I'd appreciate any advice from those who have converted from G25 pedals to CSP pedals.
     
  2. ReDi

    ReDi
    Slightly Mad Studios

    Are you saying that when you adjust the potentionmeter other than fully to the right, you cannot get the brake pedal signal to 100%? It should be such that with the potentionmeter 100% to the right you have the shortest throw to get to 100% brake signal, and turning it to the left (anti-clockwise) you'll have to push harder/further to get to 100%, up to a moment that you cannot get the signal to 100% anymore (which happens at ~40% anti-clockwise rotation starting from the fully clockwise position on my CSP).

    Would it be possible to show in a video or in a series of photos what the problem is? My CSP brake pedal doesn't have a long throw at all IMO with the potentiometer adjusted to about 20% from the far-right position. I cannot remember how it compares to the G25, that was too long ago :)

    The mechanical throw of the pedal can be adjusted, but you'll have to partly disassemble the pedals as shown here:


    Also with the CSP Tuning Kit the throw can be adjusted by putting in a metal cylinder with a different length, but again that required partial disassembly of the pedals.
     
  3. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    Thanks for the quick reply ReDi.

    From your explanation, it sounds like my calibration may be ok. Best way to describe it easily, is that if I rotate the potentiometer fully to the right, then turn it left (counter-clockwise) approx 180 deg arc, that is the point where I can't get 100% scale deflection in the software. Less than that and it doesn't reach full scale.

    However, with the potentiometer at fully right (full scale adjustment) I still need almost the full throw of the brake pedal and lots of pressure to get 100% brake deflection in the software (probably about 95-98% of the throw). If my real car felt like this, I'd be checking the brake fluid level urgently.

    Based on this, it seems that maybe I have to get used to the longer throw and higher pressure, or shorten the throw. I was hoping not to start pulling it apart, but looking at the video, it shouldn't be too difficult. I'll keep practicing for now and see if I can re-educate my brain, the G25 throw and pressure is probably ingrained by now. :wink:
     
  4. My way to adjust the range of braking with knob. I put my pedals on the carpet preventing sliding or even against the wall. Start the configuration program. Press the brake as far as I will do it in the race to brake 100%, with this pressure still applied I turn the knob to get 100% in configuration program. That's all!
     
  5. HeY Warren :)

    Its just that, your used to 'flat' travel, not pressure, you will adjust quite quickly once you stop thinking about it lol. I did shorten the trow quite considerably by moving the axis pin up ONE hole (No more as it wont go back together lol) ALSO IF YOU DO THIS REMEMBER TO UNPLUG THE LITTLE WIRE/PLUG THAT GOES FROM THE LOADCELL TO THE SMALL PCB!!!!!!! If you dont, you may well buggar the L/C as the wires to it are quite delicate...

    My pedal is pretty darn realistic in this setup, and I have to try really hard to lock the brakes, but still get full braking :) Remember, you dont often want 100%, you would just be locking your brakes all the time :)
     
  6. Hi Warren, I think I know what you mean. If it is then mine do the same, basically if you turn the pot all the way left it, not sure of a better word, condenses the resolution so that 100% brake pressure is only around 40% maximum within the profiler. Meaning that you only have about a quarter turn of the pot that you can use to find your optimum pressure. I find the way it works a bit strange, when you do increase the sensitivity (turning to the right) it seems its really only stretching the resolution and gives you less increments...too much and you can see each increment in the profiler as you apply pressure.

    In the end I purchased the upgrade kit to see if the different PU foams and different length rods would help to be able to get full pressure at full resolution...I'm still tweaking, next time I take them apart I'm going to try chopping one of the spare foam bits in half and chucking that in with the other foam to see if I can get more resistance at the begining of the throw, at the moment it seems all the resistance it at the end making it harder to press again. No idea if it will produce the effect I want or even fit lol.

    So your not on your own m8, I've had them over a year and still tweaking.

    Having said all that you get used to them, and its a step up from the g25s. Once you get everything working right you should be getting better brake performance, and much more finesse with the throttle.

    I'm not sure about shortening the throw like Brian suggests, I never tried it, but i thought in that position it would only make it harder to press because of less leverage??? I don't know, I'm totally confused after writing all this, think I'm still half a sleep, need a brew.

    Sorry if non of that made any sense...I'm going now :)
     
  7. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    Thanks for the feedback so far, it is interesting.

    I have been discussing this with a local Aussie friend who has a set of CSP Pedals (he convinced me to buy mine :wink: ), and his response is this:

    "For example I can press to half throw on the pedal and hold it there and then use the potentiometer to turn the bar up to the full throw mark in the software. If I do that I then get full brakes at half pedal throw."

    That is exactly what I was expecting, but mine won't get to 100% without going to almost 100% throw.

    He suggested that maybe I need the latest Firmware update, but I was hoping to avoid that. Does the firmware update affect the Pedals though (I thought it may have been mainly for the Wheels), and if so, how do you find out which Firmware I have?

    Is there any chance the load cell is not working correctly?

    Sorry to appear dumb, but I have no experience with a load cell brake, and this doesn't seem like I expected. :confused:
     
  8. There are some firmware updates to try, I think its worth a look if you feel something isn't correct. Its possible something is wrong on the PCB.

    It would help if you could post a video then its clear to see if there is a problem or not. If so I'm sure they will get a fresh PCB to you.

    You might want to check the other pedals aswell, make sure theres no cross talk with the inputs, I had a problem when pressing the clutch and throttle at the same time they interferred with each other, I was sent a new PCB when I showed them a quick video, all fixed.
     
  9. "For example I can press to half throw on the pedal and hold it there and then use the potentiometer to turn the bar up to the full throw mark in the software. If I do that I then get full brakes at half pedal throw."

    Mines more like yours Warren, I can't get near full brakes at half throw, from your explanation I think mine are inbetween. But I dont want that anyway like I was explaining earlier..I want the full resolution (no notchiness) but actually be able to physicaly press it enough to get there, at the moment its too hard but I have a plan ;)
     
  10. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    I'd love to make a video to show what I'm getting, but I don't own a movie camera, and can't work out how to do it by recording a movie from my PC screen.

    For the time being, I'll try to illustrate it using screenshots.

    I have made a small ink mark on the little potentiometer knob to help identify it's position.

    1. Firstly, the Throttle Pedal, all seems ok, full response and looks very linear. I do see quite a bit of spiking (flicker) in the signal, especially when letting the pressure off.

    [​IMG]

    2. Clutch Pedal, virtually identical, looks fine but also some spiking.

    [​IMG]

    3. Now the Brake Pedal.
    Brake pressure and throw almost maximum (about 98%). Hard as I can push with my hands.
    Potentiometer knob fully anti-clockwise (at the 6 o'clock position).

    [​IMG]

    4. Brake pressure at my desired pressure (85% and about 95 % throw).
    Pot knob still at 6 o'clock position.

    [​IMG]

    5. Brake pressure at desired level (as above) but Pot knob turned 180 deg clockwise to 12 o'clock position.

    [​IMG]

    6. Brake pressure as above, but Pot knob fully clockwise (4 o'clock)

    [​IMG]

    7. Brake pressure at absolute maximum and full throw. Pot knob at full clockwise (4 o'clock)

    [​IMG]

    So as explained previously, to get full braking in the calibration screen, I need full pressure and maximum rotation of the Potentiometer knob.
    There seems to be very little range of adjustment to me, and promotional material I have read at Fanatec says you can adjust the Brake pressure to have maximum braking at light or heavy pressure. For me, it seems to be only at very hard pressure. Is this normal?

    I hope this helps to explain my uncertaintanty.

    I have contacted Sim Parts in NZ, where I purchased the pedals, for some advice, but Brendon is away on holidays. I'd love to know if the Firmware update could influence this, but since I have just received them, surely they would have the latest firmware anyway??? :confused:
     
  11. Thanks warren, thats not right. Hopefully you can get a replacement set, or PCB or a fix from your supplyer. I'll be interested as I think mine have this problem just not as much. I think you should try the firmware updates and see if they help (thats what any support guys will ask first anyway).

    Some useful resources

    Thomas's blog http://www.911wheel.de/ where you can find firmwares and drivers etc
    Fanatec forum, http://forums.fanatecwheel.com/ (not official)
     
  12. Nice buy, hope you get it sorted.

    No distributors here, too small a market I suspect. But I see Slovenia is listed on the site, maybe it's an EU thing then.
    Any clues about the shipping rates?
     
  13. Warren i just compared your snapshots to my pedles and mine are the same, its how there supposed to be. i have the pot on max and ingame brake usualy at 80/85% and rarely use more than 90% brake travel.

    it took me a few weeks to get used to them as they are totaly different to using logitec pedles.
     
  14. ps, firmware update can only be used if you have a fanatec wheel, if you only use the pedles then you need the 107 drivers only.
     
  15. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    Thanks Nigel, I kept thinking that the Firmware update was only for wheels, and I only have the CSP pedals with my G25 wheel.

    I guess I'll have to spend more time practicing braking then, AND develop a much stronger braking foot/leg. I didn't expect to have to use so much pressure to get cars to stop in-game.
    This statement in the Fanatec advertising may have mislead me a little.

    "Adjust the maximum brake force with a rotary switch on the pedals and independent from software. Choose from very soft to super heavy."

    Maybe there are other games where less than full rotation and "super heavy" isn't required, I've only used it in GTL and RBR so far.
     
  16. Warren mate

    If I set my pot over i can have full brakes with a very light pressure, but thats in Race and rFactor/NKPro.... odd
     
  17. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    But, can you do that in the Fanatec Calibration software. Compare with my screenshots????
    (No. 6 screenie is about 85% pressure, almost full throw, and the Pot fully clock-wise).

    I'm getting lost now, don't know what to believe. :confused::confused:

    Any chance someone can post a screenie or two to compare to mine, please?

    EDIT: After downloading and reading the Firmware update info, I think it may still work for the pedals only. However, it seems to only affect the deadzones, and I don't have any problem with the deadzone in mine, so I shouldn't need it.

    I've also noticed that when calibrating in the Fanatec software, it takes a few full presses to set the full range of travel on the pedals correctly. So, I tried adjusting the knob to half way, then giving a few extremely hard presses of the brake (absolutely maximum force) then adjusting the knob further clockwise, it gets to maximum braking a bit earlier. Still not what I would call "very light pressure" though.

    Maybe this, combined with shortening the throw, and practice, I can get happier with the brake. :confused:
     
  18. Warren ignore the fanatec calibration screen for now, and just practice with the pedles aa they are. i know the wheels are plagued with problems but the pedles sets are a lot more relible. if you feel that the brake travel is a bit to long then adjust the throw. but this will reduce the travel a lot, when i tried it i didnt like it, it was to hard to trail brake. so i made a longer brake bar (1.5mm) which was nice, but i have now gone bake to default after getting used to the longer travel.

    you could try running the firmware update, i dont see it doing any harm. when running it with the wheel you have to have the wheel powed up and in a bootlooder mode. but never read about people using the fimware on pedles though. but i`m sure ReDi knows :D
     
  19. ReDi

    ReDi
    Slightly Mad Studios

    Warren, could you visually check the load cell of the brake pedal? It's the grey metal thing sticking out at the end of the black block behind the pedal. If you look closely, you can see the metal cylinder in the black block pushing on the load cell (there's a small bulge on the load cell plate). The cylinder and the load cell should be nicely centered w.r.t. to each other. Furthermore, the load cell should be fixed well in position and show no signs of breakage. If possible, post a few pictures of the load cell.
     
  20. Warren Dawes

    Warren Dawes
    Premium Member

    It all looks to be centred, and no obvious signs of breakage. The load cell does seem to have a little movement in it's location in the black housing, I can move it forward and back about 2-3 mm, but in use it obviously sits against the back position.