PC1 My updated opinions, not happy

[Richard Eriksson]

Ok, so i tried the latest build again after being away from the title for a while. Now that it is closing completion, i felt like having a look at it again to see how it's come along.

And i have to say that as a simulation fan i am very concerned, still. The physics and vehicle dynamics are completely off! For instance, i tried the Zakspeed Capri (one of my all time fav cars) on
Azure... I managed to make a full speed, 65 deg. turn at 255 KM/h. without losing grip at all, while shifting gears!? Now, for anyone who have witnessed the DRM Capris in real life,
this is a joke. Also, the suspension model of all cars are a travesty... Completely ridiculous with the feel of a souped up Burnout Paradise arcade car.

Try the Focus RS, for the worlds most hilarious representation of understeer/snap.

Or try some race car. The on-rails feel and "dead" response is really, really not a good representation of the involved dynamics.

Also, full on braking at 250 KM/h. renders no stability change, lift off oversteer is non existant, weight transfer in general can not be felt.

It's Gran Turismo for PC, but worse. Or in other words, it's Shift 2 all over again. I'm sorry, but this is what i feel.

The FFB is completely dead. Not that it matters, due to above physics issues.

Even the biggest selling point, the visuals, or not that fancy any more. I ran it at max settings 1080p, and i have to say, some textures are really poor... Soft lighting and dnb are weak etc.
AC is prettier, because it looks a lot more natural. Also, the screenshots on pCars that are dislayed in PR materials is a joke. It does NOT look anywhere near that, even at max settings.
There is a lot of post-processing there.


So for me, this is still a "simcade" racing GAME not a simulation. It's in the same vein as Gran Turismo (but worse), Shift-series, Codemasters releases (but worse) etc.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a success and i am glad i invested in it, back in the day. It will sell on the pretty screenshots and it will probably do well for ppl playing with
controllers on consoles. There it may be a nice casual offering, with many cars and some nice effects for the new gen consoles (albeit it will run 30 fps most likely).

But it's still not for me.

I know casual "simcade" is the goal of this title, but in that segment i think Codemasters, despite their flaws, have the realistic dynamics spot on. This is much worse.

 

[Andy_J]

My double post was because I felt sorry for you and threw you a bone, an opportunity to adjust your ways, benefit of the doubt, now you are just being abrasive and rude and borderline trolling... It's tools like you that keep guys like me from particapating in public forums...

Now this argument is now over. You contributed nothing but a bunch of noise.

Perhaps you are guilty of acting the same?

Guys, be nice. We have enough negativity when the investors attack here.

 

[Lawndart]

Perhaps you are guilty of acting the same?

Guys, be nice. We have enough negativity when the investors attack here.

Perhaps... To a lesser degree

Back on topic; spreadsheet attributes.
I was suprised when WMD allowed so many to see the cars spread sheet. I've always been against sharing this data prior to a release as it puts hard facts at odds with the feeling of a product. it sort of dispels the "magic". But it's out there...

Has WMD made any coments in regards to moding? I've recently jumped back to PC in large part to enjoy PCARS on PC due to mods... But oddly enough there is no way to preorder the PC version in the US and my friend at Namco doesn't think they have the rights for PC distribution... Makes sence since Steam will want their 30% too... But he isn't on the pcars publishing team...

AC is an amazingly open game at this point and even just created a steam workshop to host all the mods... But their isn't a "game" in that product yet...

AC seems to be competing more with rf2 than pcars though... Pcars seems to be after Forza and GT... And frankly it's about time someone did a higher end racing game on multiple platforms... Seemed like an obvious hole for years... I just wish wheels could continue that trend...

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Stop going into the minutia to make an obscure point about objectivity. You might be formally educated but you have no clue how to build an end user experience.
.

Hi Lawndart.

I'm too tired and retarded to make sense of this little battle, but as I mentioned before, Chronus has produced outstanding sim cars, I've tried them and to my amazement, there was more feel and responsiveness than the original content.

I think Chronus is frustrated by what he considers stagnant sim development, and might see you as the eneny, ie, the enemy of physics progress, especially as Simbin have ditched sim racing and it doesn't appear that even a community funded racer will be a top notch sim{ie, pcars could well be a epic racing game, but that depends on other non physics related factors}

 

[Chronus]

Andy...what's there to be nice about?

You yourself have been the subject of such level of "education" for ages here, with some types dismissing your posts as "noise" or "lies" and mostly because you either prove them wrong or disagree with them. The same thing has happened for years with David and several others. They can't argue, they mock and call names...and complain about you being "abrasive" or "nasty" or some other things...

Fortunately, IL lists exist.

I think Chronus is frustrated by what he considers stagnant sim development, and might see you as the eneny,

It is true some of us (me included) are "frustrated" by what's driving dev studios nowadays (at least some of them), even though we hope and believe AC/pCARS/rF2/RRRE may turn out to be great surprises (on the positive side).

That is not, however, what this is all about with this person.

His clerical errors and misconceptions needed correction ["bi-directional" laws of physics, laws of physics that change from one instant to another (his/her real world reactions to physics producing different results "every time in the real world"), consoles with "cell architecture", etc, etc]. I corrected his statements, which he later qualified as "over-simplifications". When cornered, he did nothing but throw mud and sand. Finally, he has gone totally out of line with his "Know you place, least you will loose the place you have. " He can't stand up for himself, he has to try and enlist the help of others ("every post after yours is correct").

Enough people here, at NG and SimHq know of my professional life and my work with motorsports teams, so you and others know where I stand or where I come from. And whatever little I know, I try to pass it on (to modders, developers and simracers alike).

As for his/her kind...rain in the drain.

---

@Richard Eriksson,

have your views changed a little in the past few days? Some glimmer of hope in regards to realism and pCARS for you?

 

[Lawndart]

Hi Lawndart.

I'm too tired and retarded to make sense of this little battle, but as I mentioned before, Chronus has produced outstanding sim cars, I've tried them and to my amazement, there was more feel and responsiveness than the original content.

I think Chronus is frustrated by what he considers stagnant sim development, and might see you as the eneny, ie, the enemy of physics progress, especially as Simbin have ditched sim racing and it doesn't appear that even a community funded racer will be a top notch sim{ie, pcars could well be a epic racing game, but that depends on other non physics related factors}

Hi David,

I appreciate your thoughtful interpretation of dialog. It would makes sence if I inadvertantky stuck a cord, even I'm curious of the hint to this Doug guy...

I too can't stand those that misrepresent games and there are a loooot of them in the mainstream game space... The "MBAs" have infiltrated the larger publishers in force and us Vetrins are quite dismayed as we watch so much digression in our industry. Sadly I and so many others have failed to "fix" this trend as making games is harder than any other profession and while we are busy with that the figure heads are doing their thing and sounding polished while doing it... But that's a whole other story.

I'm an advocate of immersion and creating captivating user experiences and that's mostly about pursuing more complex systems to support escapism and polor to to dumbing anything down to apeal to base line consumers.

The simple formula to making a great experience is "complex by design, easy to use" that "easy to use" part has been abused horribly by the ignorant and further perpetuated by the onslaught of "casual games".... But again, a major topic by itself.

I'm here at RD because of my own desire as a consumer to experience exactly what I get paid to do for others... Had the industry followed a more predictive path of 10 years ago I might be making these racing games but as a real racer there is a fine line when you start merging your hobbies and business.

So a threat, I'm not, but rather an advocate to ever evolving systems that modders are doing more than publishers to promote... In fact I can't play many un modded games on pc these days... I'm a huge fan of total war... Or am I as I'm more a fan of where the comunity has taken that series than the developer... Two games that never leave my HD, Falcon 4 and medieval total war 2...

Well, that's where I stand, I certainly am not "of" the big bad publisher even if I'm "in" one...

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Sadly I and so many others have failed to "fix" this trend as making games is harder than any other profession and while we are busy with that the figure heads are doing their thing and sounding polished while doing it..

Business people cater to a market, so unless people have more respect for reality and precision wrt to sim cars, it'll be Shift3/4/5/6.
This is why I've tried to make a distinction between a simcade racer and a sim{I'm not the only one of course}, and also why I've said I'm happy to pay for factory quality DLC of the standard that Reiza can produce.

That said, we need to move away from the bad ole days of Iracing OTM, and even these days with rf2's worst cars, to something like GSCe and or Chronus's physics, as both seem to be extremely good, and are relatively easy to drive if one applies racing technique vs gamepad heroism, lol.

 

[Andy_J]

Andy...what's there to be nice about?

Just trying to be a peace envoy here. That's all mate.

You yourself have been the subject of such level of "education" for ages here, with some types dismissing your posts as "noise" or "lies" and mostly because you either prove them wrong or disagree with them. The same thing has happened for years with David and several others. They can't argue, they mock and call names...and complain about you being "abrasive" or "nasty" or some other things...

Yes I know. You are right.

That is not, however, what this is all about with this person.

His clerical errors and misconceptions needed correction ["bi-directional" laws of physics, laws of physics that change from one instant to another (his/her real world reactions to physics producing different results "every time in the real world"), consoles with "cell architecture", etc, etc]. I corrected his statements, which he later qualified as "over-simplifications". When cornered, he did nothing but throw mud and sand. Finally, he has gone totally out of line with his "Know you place, least you will loose the place you have. " He can't stand up for himself, he has to try and enlist the help of others ("every post after yours is correct").

I understand.

Enough people here, at NG and SimHq know of my professional life and my work with motorsports teams, so you and others know where I stand or where I come from. And whatever little I know, I try to pass it on (to modders, developers and simracers alike).

I do know where you stand. Don't worry.

Sorry Chronos, I know where you are coming from with this. I was just trying to calm things down. But you are right. Keep up the great work.
Andy

 

[Andy_J]

Has WMD made any coments in regards to moding? I've recently jumped back to PC in large part to enjoy PCARS on PC due to mods... But oddly enough there is no way to preorder the PC version in the US and my friend at Namco doesn't think they have the rights for PC distribution... Makes sence since Steam will want their 30% too... But he isn't on the pcars publishing team...

Mr Dart
Wmd have made comments relating to mods in respect of no modding will be allowed. End of.
Why allow free mods when DLC can be paid for?

 

[Mircea Rad]

Well, going back to CARS... I got my pedals back (btw, 100% satisfied with Fanatec customer support) so I give it another go. Ditched all the FFB tweakers, turned tire FFB (?) up to maximum 200. The new full wet tire feels very good, I had some good fun with the Alpine A450. I don't know if heating cycle is already implemented on this tire, because I could do too many laps with it on a dry(ing) track without loosing too much grip. Then I forgot to change the tires and went on with slicks on a wet track, feeling was excellent. Aquaplaning is very well done, in a split second you're just a passenger. It reminded me of the recent WEC race

Then I went to the Formula B and the new r8 tire. For some reason it took a few restarts to get it working, at first it just wouldn't work correctly, like the steering was broken or something. I think you need to load the set-up with "Default" tire (whichever this is) and then change it to r8. I think there's too much front grip on this one. Stops to well and grip on turn-in and mid corner is close to infinite Could be the recent changes on the track surfaces, I don't know...

LE: The Formula B grip thing must be something track related to Spa, I just tried Barcelona and it's definitely a lot better.